E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-09-2013, 09:56 AM   #81
tock172
Beachtown Bill Collector
 
tock172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,842
My Ride: '99 Techno Violet M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
The BLS calculates all of that in different levels of unemployment:


U1: Percentage of labor force unemployed 15 weeks or longer.
U2: Percentage of labor force who lost jobs or completed temporary work.
U3: Official unemployment rate per the ILO definition occurs when people are without jobs and they have actively looked for work within the past four weeks.
U4: U3 + "discouraged workers", or those who have stopped looking for work because current economic conditions make them believe that no work is available for them.
U5: U4 + other "marginally attached workers", or "loosely attached workers", or those who "would like" and are able to work, but have not looked for work recently.
U6: U5 + Part-time workers who want to work full-time, but cannot due to economic reasons (underemployment).

Nothing, to my knowledge, has majorly changed about how these 6 are calculated. U3 is the typical one that we hear about on a regular basis.
While I have yet to verify your claim I'm willing to accept that it is accurate. However, this does not address the fact that the mainstream media chooses to report only the more positive statistics, painting a rosier picture of our economic conditions while the reality on the street is much different for the individual.
__________________


1999 Techno Violet Metallic BMW M3
2005 Audi B6 S4 quattro 6MT
2004 BMW 330i
1986 BMW 535i

tock172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 09:59 AM   #82
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 810
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
While I have yet to verify your claim I'm willing to accept that it is accurate. However, this does not address the fact that the mainstream media chooses to report only the more positive statistics, painting a rosier picture of our economic conditions while the reality on the street is much different for the individual.
Eh, but U3 is always what has been reported in the past, and I think there is plenty of talk about marginally attached, the long term unemployed, etc. if you diversify the news source. Of course MSNBC/HuffPo are going to be focusing on only the positive, while FoxNews will only be focusing on the negative with but a whisper of U3. That's why I skim the BLS reports ever couple of months.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 09:59 AM   #83
'busa
Registered User
 
'busa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,466
My Ride: E90 335i (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
While I have yet to verify your claim I'm willing to accept that it is accurate. However, this does not address the fact that the mainstream media chooses to report only the more positive statistics, painting a rosier picture of our economic conditions while the reality on the street is much different for the individual.
The media reports what's good for ratings. That's all. They'll panic one day and report rosy news the next.

Do you have an opinion on the thread topic? If Boehner says there aren't enough votes, why doesn't he just call a vote?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
What would 'busa have done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
I would love to hear what Busa would have done
Quote:
Originally Posted by GasKing View Post
I'd like to know how Busa would handle this situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
What are we to do?
'busa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:12 AM   #84
Iceman00
I screwed up and can't post
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FLA
Posts: 2,838
My Ride: E90 6MT
Don't engage Tock, he drives a VW and is a complete tool. I've all but sworn him off.
Iceman00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:12 AM   #85
tock172
Beachtown Bill Collector
 
tock172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,842
My Ride: '99 Techno Violet M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
That's not quite what stagflation is. Stagflation is high inflation, low economic growth and high unemployment. Inflation over the past few decades has been pretty average, if I recall correctly.
That is because of the way the CPI is calculated. The true cost of living is increasing at a faster rate than what the CPI reflects. Core CPI does take into account commodities with more volatile markets, such as food and gas, both of which are staples that directly impact the daily lives of average americans.

Quote:
Both parties are responsible for the foolish policies you mention. There is no silver bullet to get out of the trouble we could potentially face.....increasing taxes and cutting spending are a good start, but both sides act like this will be the stake through their collective hearts if either happens.
I couldn't agree more. In the previous decade, it was the Republicans using the US military as the world police, in this decade it's the democrats and their government programs and neokeynesian economic school of though - the same flawed philosophy that was behind the CRA of '77 and '97 and the securitization of home mortgage debt.

Quote:
I'm right there with ya, except I think the TP is entirely misdirected by the Republican party.
With the exception of an extremely small group, I believe the entire lot of our politicians are drunk on power. I believe term limits should be imposed on congress and the senate.

Quote:
You'd be surprised. I work specifically in the high net worth/ultra high net worth space and I would say the level of "caring" is definitely higher than average, but there are unaware idiots in every strata of wealth.
That right there proves my point. By their very nature, these individuals are more likely to pay attention to current events. In addition to that, they're also more likely to take it upon themselves to do more research and look into the validity of their sources and question what they hear.

Quote:


I try to be as reasonable as possible with this type of stuff because I genuinely enjoy talking about it and it's something that impacts all of us, whether we like it or not.

However, if someone posts something unreasonable/hyperbolic/idiotic, I won't hesitate to point it out. Think le0307, phrozen, BB BMW, etc.
I like reasonable individuals. I've always found the biggest fools among us to be those who speak in absolute terms.
__________________


1999 Techno Violet Metallic BMW M3
2005 Audi B6 S4 quattro 6MT
2004 BMW 330i
1986 BMW 535i

tock172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:20 AM   #86
tock172
Beachtown Bill Collector
 
tock172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,842
My Ride: '99 Techno Violet M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
The media reports what's good for ratings. That's all. They'll panic one day and report rosy news the next.
Don't you think that might represent a conflict of interest, when a politician has something to gain from mainstream media painting a picture that things are better than they actually are?

Quote:
Do you have an opinion on the thread topic? If Boehner says there aren't enough votes, why doesn't he just call a vote?
Not particularly. Why don't you ask John Bohner yourself? I consider the fact that we have arrived at such a point ridiculous to begin with. No amount of voting is going to get us out of the problems we're facing. We need to clean house and accept the fact that while pursuing equal opportunity for all is a noble cause, but pursuing equal outcomes is pure evil.
__________________


1999 Techno Violet Metallic BMW M3
2005 Audi B6 S4 quattro 6MT
2004 BMW 330i
1986 BMW 535i

tock172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:20 AM   #87
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 810
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
That is because of the way the CPI is calculated. The true cost of living is increasing at a faster rate than what the CPI reflects. Core CPI does take into account commodities with more volatile markets, such as food and gas, both of which are staples that directly impact the daily lives of average americans.
CPI does take food into account. Also, gas, adjusted for inflation, would actually be higher than it is today so it has actually underperformed compared to the inflation rates.

http://www.bls.gov/dolfaq/bls_ques3.htm

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/i...tion_chart.htm


Quote:
That right there proves my point. By their very nature, these individuals are more likely to pay attention to current events. In addition to that, they're also more likely to take it upon themselves to do more research and look into the validity of their sources and question what they hear.
I think you're giving them a bit too much credit. I would say they are more informed than the average, but not much more than the average what so ever. They tend to be concerned with fees and what their favorite news pundit said.

Quote:
I like reasonable individuals. I've always found the biggest fools among us to be those who speak in absolute terms.
Lair, le0370, cabrio330, ti137, phrozen, BB BMW, etc. are all examples of those who typically speak in absolutes....some more than others, of course.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:21 AM   #88
tock172
Beachtown Bill Collector
 
tock172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,842
My Ride: '99 Techno Violet M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman00 View Post
Don't engage Tock, he drives a VW and is a complete tool. I've all but sworn him off.
It's good to know that driving an Audi, being in favor of responsible fiscal policy and taking the mainstream media with a grain of salt makes a me tool in your eyes.
__________________


1999 Techno Violet Metallic BMW M3
2005 Audi B6 S4 quattro 6MT
2004 BMW 330i
1986 BMW 535i

tock172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:31 AM   #89
tock172
Beachtown Bill Collector
 
tock172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,842
My Ride: '99 Techno Violet M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
CPI does take food into account. Also, gas, adjusted for inflation, would actually be higher than it is today so it has actually underperformed compared to the inflation rates.

http://www.bls.gov/dolfaq/bls_ques3.htm

http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/i...tion_chart.htm
Reread my initial statement carefully, I am aware that by some calculations, gas and food prices are taken into account. However with 'core CPI' they are not.




Quote:
I think you're giving them a bit too much credit. I would say they are more informed than the average, but not much more than the average what so ever. They tend to be concerned with fees and what their favorite news pundit said.
Perhaps it's thanks to my family's history (immigrated to the US with a mere $200 60 years ago), but I find that those who acquired their wealth honestly, through hard work and financial diligence are more willing to take what they hear with a grain of salt. Granted it goes both ways. Regardless of where you start, if you ignore the opposing argument you are always made to be a fool - I have members of my own family I can easily use an example here.



Quote:
Lair, le0370, cabrio330, ti137, phrozen, BB BMW, etc. are all examples of those who typically speak in absolutes....some more than others, of course.
Lair is a ****ing idiot. I've learned a lot from a year ago and no longer choose to engage him.
__________________


1999 Techno Violet Metallic BMW M3
2005 Audi B6 S4 quattro 6MT
2004 BMW 330i
1986 BMW 535i

tock172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:41 AM   #90
'busa
Registered User
 
'busa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,466
My Ride: E90 335i (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
Don't you think that might represent a conflict of interest, when a politician has something to gain from mainstream media painting a picture that things are better than they actually are?
I'd say it probably washes out. "Mainstream media" is a loaded term. How does one become "mainstream media"? Does dominating talk radio count? Maybe Stephen Colbert is right and reality does have a well-known liberal bias?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
Not particularly. Why don't you ask John Bohner yourself?
He won't respond to my tweets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
I consider the fact that we have arrived at such a point ridiculous to begin with. No amount of voting is going to get us out of the problems we're facing. We need to clean house and accept the fact that while pursuing equal opportunity for all is a noble cause, but pursuing equal outcomes is pure evil.
I'm not sure that anyone is pursuing equal outcomes. Do you have evidence to support that claim?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
What would 'busa have done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
I would love to hear what Busa would have done
Quote:
Originally Posted by GasKing View Post
I'd like to know how Busa would handle this situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
What are we to do?
'busa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:42 AM   #91
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 810
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
Reread my initial statement carefully, I am aware that by some calculations, gas and food prices are taken into account. However with 'core CPI' they are not.
I gotcha. Maybe I'm not looking at the right thing, but when I'm researching CPI vs. Core CPI, I'm not seeing your point. Core CPI seems to be in check with CPI.








Quote:
Perhaps it's thanks to my family's history (immigrated to the US with a mere $200 60 years ago), but I find that those who acquired their wealth honestly, through hard work and financial diligence are more willing to take what they hear with a grain of salt. Granted it goes both ways. Regardless of where you start, if you ignore the opposing argument you are always made to be a fool - I have members of my own family I can easily use an example here.
I would assume most, if not all, of my clients acquired their wealth honestly. A good number of them acquired it by winning the vagina lottery. AKA, they inherited it with varying degrees of success after the fact.





Quote:
Lair is a ****ing idiot. I've learned a lot from a year ago and no longer choose to engage him.
lol, as are the rest of them.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:44 AM   #92
tock172
Beachtown Bill Collector
 
tock172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,842
My Ride: '99 Techno Violet M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
I'd say it probably washes out. "Mainstream media" is a loaded term. How does one become "mainstream media"? Does dominating talk radio count? Maybe Stephen Colbert is right and reality does have a well-known liberal bias?
Cable and local news networks. Right wing talk radio is insane. Just listen to most of the callers and you can tell.

Quote:
He won't respond to my tweets.
You mean to tell me that our elected government officials are unaccountable!?!?!?!?!?!


Quote:
I'm not sure that anyone is pursuing equal outcomes. Do you have evidence to support that claim?
What do you call it when the president calls for the rich to pay (more than) their fair share? What do you call affirmative action? What do you call government subsidized healthcare? These are all examples of the government trying to even out the inherent inequality in our society. History has shown this to be a flawed approach.
__________________


1999 Techno Violet Metallic BMW M3
2005 Audi B6 S4 quattro 6MT
2004 BMW 330i
1986 BMW 535i

tock172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:45 AM   #93
'busa
Registered User
 
'busa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,466
My Ride: E90 335i (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
What do you call it when the president calls for the rich to pay (more than) their fair share? What do you call affirmative action? What do you call government subsidized healthcare? These are all examples of the government trying to even out the inherent inequality in our society. History has shown this to be a flawed approach.
None of those are examples of "equal outcomes".
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
What would 'busa have done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
I would love to hear what Busa would have done
Quote:
Originally Posted by GasKing View Post
I'd like to know how Busa would handle this situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
What are we to do?
'busa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:51 AM   #94
tock172
Beachtown Bill Collector
 
tock172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,842
My Ride: '99 Techno Violet M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
I gotcha. Maybe I'm not looking at the right thing, but when I'm researching CPI vs. Core CPI, I'm not seeing your point. Core CPI seems to be in check with CPI.

[img]
I would argue that the chart you're citing doesn't necessarily agree with that. They seem to converge and diverge pretty wildly in a few areas.

And I honestly think you're just overlooking it. I hate quoting wikipedia, but here's a direct quote from the article on Core Inflation:

Quote:
Core inflation represents the long run trend in the price level. In measuring long run inflation, transitory price changes should be excluded. One way of accomplishing this is by excluding items frequently subject to volatile prices, like food and energy.

And here's a link to a blog post written about this very subject by the esteemed economist, Paul Krugman.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...re-logic/?_r=0







Quote:
I would assume most, if not all, of my clients acquired their wealth honestly. A good number of them acquired it by winning the vagina lottery. AKA, they inherited it with varying degrees of success after the fact.
I don't have a solid stance on how I feel about inheritance and marrying into money. These two factors definitely distort any generalization one would like to make about the wealthy. I have yet to fully develop my opinion on the matter.
__________________


1999 Techno Violet Metallic BMW M3
2005 Audi B6 S4 quattro 6MT
2004 BMW 330i
1986 BMW 535i

tock172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:53 AM   #95
tock172
Beachtown Bill Collector
 
tock172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,842
My Ride: '99 Techno Violet M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
None of those are examples of "equal outcomes".
Yes they are. They don't guarantee equal outcomes, but that is their goal. These programs are trying to influence the trajectory of an individuals life by seizing the private property of others and diverting to the 'less fortunate.' In other words, government sanctioned theft.
__________________


1999 Techno Violet Metallic BMW M3
2005 Audi B6 S4 quattro 6MT
2004 BMW 330i
1986 BMW 535i

tock172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:54 AM   #96
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 810
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Quote:
Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
I would argue that the chart you're citing doesn't necessarily agree with that. They seem to converge and diverge pretty wildly in a few areas.

And I honestly think you're just overlooking it. I hate quoting wikipedia, but here's a direct quote from the article on Core Inflation:




And here's a link to a blog post written about this very subject by the esteemed economist, Paul Krugman.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...re-logic/?_r=0









I don't have a solid stance on how I feel about inheritance and marrying into money. These two factors definitely distort any generalization one would like to make about the wealthy. I have yet to fully develop my opinion on the matter.

I'll read it later.....I'm about to start a triple header set of conference calls.....FML.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:55 AM   #97
'busa
Registered User
 
'busa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: FL
Posts: 1,466
My Ride: E90 335i (sold)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
Yes they are. They don't guarantee equal outcomes, but that is their goal. These programs are trying to influence the trajectory of an individuals life by seizing the private property of others and diverting to the 'less fortunate.' In other words, government sanctioned theft.
That's an exaggeration, at the very least. Most developed countries collect taxes and, among other things, use that money to provide service and care for those of lesser means. That is not unusual or immoral.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
What would 'busa have done?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJon View Post
I would love to hear what Busa would have done
Quote:
Originally Posted by GasKing View Post
I'd like to know how Busa would handle this situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
What are we to do?
'busa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:55 AM   #98
tock172
Beachtown Bill Collector
 
tock172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,842
My Ride: '99 Techno Violet M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
I'll read it later.....I'm about to start a triple header set of conference calls.....FML.
I've been posting from my office this whole time, between calls. You have my sympathy.
__________________


1999 Techno Violet Metallic BMW M3
2005 Audi B6 S4 quattro 6MT
2004 BMW 330i
1986 BMW 535i

tock172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 10:59 AM   #99
tock172
Beachtown Bill Collector
 
tock172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,842
My Ride: '99 Techno Violet M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'busa View Post
That's an exaggeration, at the very least. Most developed countries collect taxes and, among other things, use that money to provide service and care for those of lesser means. That is not unusual or immoral.
Considering something normal in a societal context does not make it moral. Seizing the property of an individual against their will is theft. There is no grey area here. Taxation, no matter how noble the cause is theft. Our modern society has been conditioned to believe these altruistic motives are the highest noble cause out there, while the exact opposite could not be more true. Our outrageous public debt and the impasse in washington are just the latest symptoms of this.
__________________


1999 Techno Violet Metallic BMW M3
2005 Audi B6 S4 quattro 6MT
2004 BMW 330i
1986 BMW 535i

tock172 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 11:02 AM   #100
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,405
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
Oh man.

Between 'busa, le0370, AoG, and Lair, this place is an absolute rustle factory
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
Carbon dioxide is not a "chemical"
Quote:
Originally Posted by l0e3o7 View Post
Just keep your lil boy zell on a leash; a proud self proclaimed TROLL
Zell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use