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Old 10-10-2013, 12:38 PM   #61
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ya br0 i love r@c1ng my car @ teh st0plight wif peepz in oth3r brandz lolz, i show th3m who's B0SS!!!1 BMW!@!!1
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:48 PM   #62
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BMW has gotten too comfy in recent years IMO. They have also changed their focus to attract a broader market. With this comes less innovation, attention of detail to what the competitor's are doing, and more fluffed cars for the masses. If they are not careful, they will lose their competitive edge as has been the case to many leading companies. It's good that the competition is clawing at the pedestal of BMW.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:04 PM   #63
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Why are you still here?

The BRZ is cool, but is cheap as hell. You can't compare them to BMWs. Also, the oldest BRZ is, what 1.5 years old? Who knows if they'll be good in 10 years or not. It's a totally new platform for both Toyota and Subaru.
Because I've been on this forum for a while and I've grown accustomed to it? Lots of people on this forum have traded in their E46s and gotten other cars.

And I can compare it to the E46. It's much better than my 2001 325xi. And I predict it'll be cheaper to maintain over its lifetime. I'm done with BMW.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:16 PM   #64
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BMW has gotten too comfy in recent years IMO. They have also changed their focus to attract a broader market. With this comes less innovation, attention of detail to what the competitor's are doing, and more fluffed cars for the masses. If they are not careful, they will lose their competitive edge as has been the case to many leading companies. It's good that the competition is clawing at the pedestal of BMW.
Less innovation? I don't get the hate for new BMWs
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:29 PM   #65
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The question should be, how well will the CTS-V and ATS hold up when they are 12-13 years old? My 2000 3 series Touring still looks as well and performs as well as it did when it was a couple of years old. Looked at any 13 year old Caddys lately?


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Old 10-10-2013, 01:32 PM   #66
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The question should be, how well will the CTS-V and ATS hold up when they are 12-13 years old? My 2000 3 series Touring still looks as well and performs as well as it did when it was a couple of years old. Looked at any 13 year old Caddys lately?


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Old 10-10-2013, 01:58 PM   #67
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I've learned long ago not to be impressed by the roundel. Couldn't wait to ditch my bimmer for my BRZ.
I appreciate Toyota/Subarus efforts in marketing a small affordable RWD sportscar in these times where fuel economy, engine specs, and gadgets dictate the appeal of the car to the majority of consumers.

It is a great car. Big problem is that it has very few NEW competitors (spare the miata) in terms of cheap, lightweight RWD. So people resort to comparing it to used cars (S2K/Silvia/3series BMW/1series BMW\Entry level porsches etc, etc...) in which case it seems that you are getting a lot more for your money by purchasing used.

So again I love the fact that toyota and subaru made a NEW car for enthusiasts to drool over, so that some of us dont resort to buying used cars and shunning all the new products that the auto industry has to offer, and I would like to see the lightweight cheap RWD segment grow (with nissan/honda getting involved)...

...but personally (again personally) I'd much rather buy a used E46M/E36M/E86M with my own money.

If you want me to give my specific reasons for chosing an old BMW over a new FRS/BRZ I can
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:21 PM   #68
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Because I've been on this forum for a while and I've grown accustomed to it? Lots of people on this forum have traded in their E46s and gotten other cars.

And I can compare it to the E46. It's much better than my 2001 325xi. And I predict it'll be cheaper to maintain over its lifetime. I'm done with BMW.
Better in what ways? You are comparing a small rear wheel drive, sports oriented car to a larger entry luxury 4 door all wheel drive 13 year old car with less power. They aren't really very comparable.

Okay bye now.

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Less innovation? I don't get the hate for new BMWs
There's always haters resisting change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
BMW has gotten too comfy in recent years IMO. They have also changed their focus to attract a broader market. With this comes less innovation, attention of detail to what the competitor's are doing, and more fluffed cars for the masses. If they are not careful, they will lose their competitive edge as has been the case to many leading companies. It's good that the competition is clawing at the pedestal of BMW.
Can you say "armchair CEO"? You have no idea what you're talking about.

What part of targeting a broader market stifles innovation or prevents them from paying attention to the competition?

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I appreciate Toyota/Subarus efforts in marketing a small affordable RWD sportscar in these times where fuel economy, engine specs, and gadgets dictate the appeal of the car to the majority of consumers.

It is a great car. Big problem is that it has very few NEW competitors (spare the miata) in terms of cheap, lightweight RWD. So people resort to comparing it to used cars (S2K/Silvia/3series BMW/1series BMW\Entry level porsches etc, etc...) in which case it seems that you are getting a lot more for your money by purchasing used.

So again I love the fact that toyota and subaru made a NEW car for enthusiasts to drool over, so that some of us dont resort to buying used cars and shunning all the new products that the auto industry has to offer, and I would like to see the lightweight cheap RWD segment grow (with nissan/honda getting involved)...

...but personally (again personally) I'd much rather buy a used E46M/E36M/E86M with my own money.

If you want me to give my specific reasons for chosing an old BMW over a new FRS/BRZ I can
You chose an old BMW over an FRS/BRZ because they are totally different cars with totally different strengths and weaknesses.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:47 PM   #69
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:15 PM   #70
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Less innovation? I don't get the hate for new BMWs
No supercar. No care.

Kidding. They are still pushing innovation, but in refinement and creature comforts it seems for their vehicles.

The 1M was again in my opinion, the closest they've been in a long time to what used to excite the motorsport enthusiasts.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:21 PM   #71
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Can you say "armchair CEO"? You have no idea what you're talking about.

What part of targeting a broader market stifles innovation or prevents them from paying attention to the competition?

.
I know all about change and it's wonders, but companies who have been great in the past must stick to their core strengths while expanding their horizons. I never faulted BMW for that, but the direction they are steering is towards the average smuck, not your auto enthusiast so much anymore. Nothing wrong with this, as things like safety, better fuel economy, etc. are discovered, but R&D dollars only flow so much a fiscal year. Seems like they are losing their enthusiast crowd as you begin to read reviews on the new cars and test drive them.

NOVA said it best. Why pay $70k+ for a new M3 when a 5.0 mustang offers the same performance at half the price?
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:37 PM   #72
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Why pay $70k+ for a new M3 when a 5.0 mustang offers the same performance at half the price?





compared to













Both 2013 models. What the **** ford, that looks like garbage
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:57 PM   #73
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Sticking with BMW personally, because I can't buy a SAAB.
What? Saabs are garbage. There's a reason they're known as SLAABs.



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Old 10-10-2013, 03:58 PM   #74
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Sticking with BMW personally, because I can't buy a SAAB.
What? Saabs are garbage. There's a reason they're known as SLAABs


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Old 10-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #75
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BMW has gotten too comfy in recent years IMO. They have also changed their focus to attract a broader market. With this comes less innovation
wat

Have you seen the technical offerings you can add onto a BMW? Micro-adjusting seats that help your back feel better after long trips? Variable steering? Waving your foot under the car to open the trunk? Touchpad navigation system?

How is that not innovative?

If you want a superhardc0rebr0 sports car, you should buy a Lotus. BMW is a sporty luxury brand.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #76
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No supercar. No care.

Kidding. They are still pushing innovation, but in refinement and creature comforts it seems for their vehicles.

The 1M was again in my opinion, the closest they've been in a long time to what used to excite the motorsport enthusiasts.
What are you talking about? BMW has some recent very major innovations. The most recent and major of which is ValveTronic. That's several years ahead of any other car company.

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I know all about change and it's wonders, but companies who have been great in the past must stick to their core strengths while expanding their horizons.
This is why I'm calling you an armchair CEO. That is such a broad generalization that it means absolutely nothing.

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Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
I never faulted BMW for that, but the direction they are steering is towards the average smuck, not your auto enthusiast so much anymore. Nothing wrong with this, as things like safety, better fuel economy, etc. are discovered, but R&D dollars only flow so much a fiscal year. Seems like they are losing their enthusiast crowd as you begin to read reviews on the new cars and test drive them.
Yeah, money is limited, so they are trying to make more. You don't make money by trying to appeal to what is becoming a smaller and smaller market every year. You want more innovation, but you don't want them targeting larger markets. That's a huge flaw in your thinking.


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NOVA said it best. Why pay $70k+ for a new M3 when a 5.0 mustang offers the same performance at half the price?
Maybe because the BMW is more refined in the first place. The M3 is also a luxury car. The Mustang's creature comforts pale in comparison. It may offer a similar amount of HP, but nobody denies that the E9X M3 is still a phenomenal car.

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Both 2013 models. What the **** ford, that looks like garbage
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:08 PM   #77
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You chose an old BMW over an FRS/BRZ because they are totally different cars with totally different strengths and weaknesses.
Although originally targeted towardly different audiences, the ones I listed are similar to the FRS/BRZ in many ways, and are the most cross compared. A lot of people cross shop those three with the FRS/BRZ.

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It's much better than my 2001 325xi.
For you... not for everyone... Those cars are significantly different as WDE46 said...

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And I predict it'll be cheaper to maintain over its lifetime.
Not a fact.... Japanese/Built by toyota/subaru does not directly imply reliability. It is an affordable high performance car with thin suspension parts and highly strained engine (100 hp/l, 12.5:1 CR), and not a corolla. Dont expect it to be nearly as reliable as one.

I frequent the FRS/BRZ forums myself... the oldest of these cars are at around 20K/30K miles, with the vast majority being quite a bit below 10K...
The cars already developed a plethora of problems...

from camshaft position sensors, direct injector seals to random suspension clunks to transmissions grinding to water pooling up in the taillights to rust... you name it...

Some owners had their engines replaced, some had their trannies replaced, some had their cars replaced, some even lemon'd their FRS/BRZ swearing they will never go back to that car again

Yet most people there make generic statements about BMW's being significantly less reliable/higher maintenance as if it's some effing axiom.

It is not. We have yet to learn whether the FRS is reliable/easy to mantain and how it compares to other cars in that sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08
Why pay $70k+ for a new M3 when a 5.0 mustang offers the same performance at half the price?
Because not everyone lives their life a quartermile at a time

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Old 10-10-2013, 04:34 PM   #78
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Both 2013 models. What the **** ford, that looks like garbage
That's goddamn horrible.
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:45 PM   #79
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compared to













Both 2013 models. What the **** ford, that looks like garbage
What do you want out of a sports car? If you want luxury, you're not buying a ford. If you want value for performance, you're not buying a BMW.

And again, the Mustang GT can be had for about half the cost, for identical performance.


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Old 10-10-2013, 05:37 PM   #80
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What do you want out of a sports car? If you want luxury, you're not buying a ford. If you want value for performance, you're not buying a BMW.

And again, the Mustang GT can be had for about half the cost, for identical performance.


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Lots of people want luxury and performance. BMW all the way there.


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