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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 10-16-2013, 01:29 PM   #1
Serbonze
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AAR: Advanced Handgun Manipulation

Class: Advanced Handgun Manipulation
Instructor: Marco Caporale
Assistant Instructor: Suraj Montoute
Host: Shoot Shack
Weather: Mid 80s and sunny
Proposed round count: 600 Actual round count: 650ish

Gear
Glock 19 with Trijicon RMR, Stippled frame, finger humps removed and undercut trigger guard
Dawson Precision Fiber Optic Suppressor Height Front Sight and Ameriglo Rear Sight
Vickers Mag Release, Vickers Slide Release, Grip Force Adapter
Raven Phantom Holster
Ares Ranger Belt
TCI Hearing Protection
Rudy Project Rydons glasses
Costa Leg Rig

TD1
We started the day with accuracy drills from five and ten yards using both a standard grip and a dominate hand only grip. This was used to establish a baseline for each student. We then moved to transitions from dominate to weak (both two hands and one hand) from the same distance. Not many people practice weak hand drills, and I think it was evident from the results.

Next up was instinctive shooting (taping off both the front and rear sights), again using a standard grip, strong hand only, and weak hand only. The drills worked us from three to five yards, shooting at both the head and the chest. After that, the tape on the rear sights came off and we shot from seven to ten yards, again using the three different grips. Lastly, we were free to use the full sights while we moved back to 20 yards and shot two hand, strong hand only, and weak hand only. I encourage everyone to try shooting weak hand only from 20 yards, itís a challenge.

At this point we began the movement drills, starting with a simple walk in from 20 yards while shooting and reloading as necessary. This drill included drawing and shooting using both two hands and strong hand only. We then started to incorporate additional movement of left, right, and forward of barriers while getting off the X. All of the drills included multiple shots to the head and chest and reloading when necessary.

Next up was weak hand only, drawing from the holster. This was done in several different ways from both standing and kneeling. The theory behind this drill is that your dominant arm is unusable, and there is a threat that needs to be stopped.

The shooting portion of the day ended with accuracy drills from both five and ten yards.

After the drills were done we had a quick debrief. We talked about real life scenarios and the when and why you would use some of the drills that were introduced throughout the day. I talked about one particular drill that I didnít feel would be useful, and that was transitioning from strong to weak hand while moving away from a threat. After some reflection, I think I was frustrated by not having the opportunity to use my strong hand shooting across my body and then make the decision about which method to use for myself.

TD2
We started with an accuracy drill of five shots at center mass and five head shots at five yards.

Day two was about working on the ground. Drills included getting to the ground, shooting while on the ground, and getting up from the ground. We drilled using prone, urban prone, superman, and supine positions, while using combinations of the standard two hand, strong hand only, and weak hand only grips. Most of the prone and urban prone shooting was done at 20 yards. Supine was done at seven yards.

After getting a feeling for working on the ground, we incorporated drawing from the holster and reloading with weak hand only while on the ground. Again, this is to simulate that your strong arm is no longer functioning. These drills were probably my favorite of the course, and I look forward to working on them again in the future. I think itís important to note that during the entire second day of training, no admin reloads were allowed. All magazines were limited to five rounds, so students were forced into tactical reloads regardless of the shooting position or grip that was being used. I think that this was a great strategy by the instructor, as a student not used to tactical reloads can easily conduct admin reloads throughout the course of instruction and never run dry during a drill.

We did incorporate some drills that required racking the slide on a holster, belt, clothing, or the ground. Students quickly understood the importance of quality sights. The RMR was great in these drills.

After the drills were done we had a rundown of the last two days of shooting. We talked about equipment failure, and why you want it to fail out on the range rather than in an emergency situation. We also touched on the importance of quality gear and its need to function 100% of the time.

Takeaways:
All of my gear worked as expected so I was able to focus on the instruction.
I tried to slow down in this class and focus on accuracy over speed. For the most part I accomplished that goal. However, I continue to have issues with snatching the trigger while under stress.
I swapped out the textured GFA from TD1 to the smooth version on TD2. My hand was being torn up.
My body is reminding me that Iím not as young as I used to be. I had to stop jumping down into prone because it was sending spasms through my back.
I think that we could have put more rounds down range. Hydration and mag reload breaks turned into lengthy discussions and took away from time that could have been spent shooting.
Everyone should know how their firearm works. You should be able to disassemble and perform routine maintenance.
The RMR proved its worth during the distance shooting drills.
There was one pistol that continually malfunctioned on TD1 even after cleaning and lubrication. In my opinion, itís not worth owning a firearm that you canít count on if that is its role in your collection.


Gear Changes:
Swap out the textured GFAs on my pistols to the smooth.
Swap out the Costa Leg Rig to the newer HSGI Leg Panel. It allows for more adjustability, more configurations (not just pistol or rifle tacos), and it is a bit larger.







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Old 10-16-2013, 04:31 PM   #2
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Gotta get my ass back onto the range...I would have made of fool of myself at this.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:01 PM   #3
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What was their reasoning for teaching instinctive shooting w/out sights? What was your take/reaction to that reasoning?

Why was so much time spent on the ground? Again, your thoughts on that?

Which pistol went down and didn't work?
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
What was their reasoning for teaching instinctive shooting w/out sights? What was your take/reaction to that reasoning?
I feel that you already know the answer to that question and you are giving me a quiz.

Quote:
Why was so much time spent on the ground? Again, your thoughts on that?
That's what the instructor wanted to cover for that class. It was fine with me, it gave me ample opportunity to practice something that I've never done before.

Quote:
Which pistol went down and didn't work?
A CZ. It was a jam machine. I tore it down, cleaned it, and applied a fresh coat of Slip2000 and it didn't help.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbonze View Post
I feel that you already know the answer to that question and you are giving me a quiz.
I suspect the answer was one of two things:

1. you won't use your sights in a real gunfight;
or
2. Kinesiology related, whereby you are working to develop a natural point of aim by fine-tuning your kinesthetic alignment

Was it one of those?
Option 1 is the most common. I'm always curious about peoples' reaction to it. If it was #1, how did the class respond/react to it?
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:33 PM   #6
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Not really one or the other, but rather a combination of both. Natural point of aim combined with close proximity to a threat can still result in effective shots on target.

My reaction? I really didn't care. I've been training with a local SWAT commander lately, and he's working on helping me transition from the mindset of a target shooter (every shot has to touch and getting good groups) to being a combat effective shooter. Part of that training has been speeding me up and to stop looking for the perfect sight picture. One drill was to get me to just look for the front sight and letting the round go. Within seven yards, I had fist size "groups" at center mass on multiple target engagements. With more practice, I'm sure that I can get better, but as a civilian I'm pretty happy with that.

He described times in shoot houses when officers were given guns with standard sights, no front, no rear, or none at all. For the most part, they were annoyed that there were sights missing, but ultimately did just fine.

There really wasn't much of a reaction from the rest of the class either. Everyone had a really good attitude and were open to trying anything.
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:13 PM   #7
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The SWAT guy has you on the right track with First Best Sight Picture. Too many people wind up taking far too long on shots because they're waiting for that perfect shot, and often times the FBSP is going to be the most effective one they can make. My buddy Dave Timm of Timm Training did great job of emphasizing to his class that the person who will win a gunfight will be the one that gets effective hits on target first.
While I'm not a big USPSA/3-Gun competition shooting advocate, the concept of FBSP is very well understood by those competitors. It's one of the few areas where there is cross-over between competition shooters and those that operate in an offensive tactical environment.

I have a lot of contempt about instinctive point shooting where sight use is not used. Not because it can't happen, but because there's been an ongoing trend through the years to proliferate it as a legit shooting style, and not just an option during an exigent circumstance. About two years ago I had a guy contact me and ask me to endorse instinctive point shooting and an article he was trynig to have published. I had some select words to say about that.
In the interest of give-and-take, I will admit that learning to do it at very close range for the use in an exigent circumstance is likely valid. However, it's mostly for contact shots or for very close range from a defense retention type position. Where I condemn it is with extended use, because there's no legitimate reason to not train with sights. Some people do actually practice with it extensively, which is completely misdirected.

In relation to giving people sights, some sights or no sights, that had a lot to do with kinesiology and human adaptability. I've heard of that test before, but it's slightly misleading. People interpret those things differently. The purpose of testing like that proves that humans can adapt and overcome when I becomes necessary to do so. The interpretation used by a lot of people is that since we can do point shooting at very close range, that must mean that we can and should be doing it at varying ranges regularly, just because we can. It goes back to the premise of "just because can, doesn't mean you should".

With the exception of reactionary point blank/close proximity reaction shooting under 5yds, most firearms instructors avoid point shooting. Ron Avery has a very good balance where you are being attacked, so you block/shield your head with one arm while drawing and firing from the rib cage level with your pistol. One shot, then you back off and bring the rifle up to combat stance and you engage with sights.

Probably too long-winded of a thought here, but discussing this stuff interests me.
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