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Old 10-20-2013, 11:46 AM   #41
Marshmallow
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Ok


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What is the conclusion you've arrived at?
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:52 AM   #42
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I think you need more John Locke and Adam Smith.
Which part of Locke--father of liberalism--do I need more of? The social contract part that says we surrender some of our rights to government to ensure the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property?

No idea you were a liberal.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:55 AM   #43
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FreedomWorks CEO says it's 'a real possibility' Republican Party may split in t

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What is the conclusion you've arrived at?
That it helps me understand your line of thinking.

But, curios how you don't believe in God but believe in natural rights.


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Old 10-20-2013, 12:00 PM   #44
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Ahh freedom. Please inform us what freedom is and how we achieve it.
I think 95% of government problems would be eliminated overnight if we pass some accountability laws, which will include prison sentences and financial beatdowns. Anytime there is added debt, congress gets a salary cut of 10%. Everytime there is a scandal (ie IRS going after republicans, Holder and his fun, etc) its a 10 year minimum sentence. Couple that with forced bill participation (by law, politicians would be federally FORCED to participate in ANY program they pass, and they wave their right to ANY free market solution) ie healthcare...it would be ILLEGAL for a politician to use a private doctor for instance...pass laws like that, and you will see both sides of those scumbags change their tune REAL quick.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:03 PM   #45
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Yes or no. Do you think rights are innate? Example, natural right.




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Me thinks its too simple of a question, since the answer is so complex. For instance...it is our "human right" to feed ourselves and our families right? I don't think anyone here will argue that. Nowhere does it say you must PAY for said food. Having said that, to hunt for food (or fish) you need a permit for the rifle, a permit to hunt, etc etc etc. Many human rights can be "violated" for the sake of the greater good...or at least that's how they are sold.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:10 PM   #46
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Which part of Locke--father of liberalism--do I need more of? The social contract part that says we surrender some of our rights to government to ensure the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property?

No idea you were a liberal.
The Locke thing was more of a counterpoint to Hobbs. And liberalism in his time was far different to what it is now.

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Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
That it helps me understand your line of thinking.

But, curios how you don't believe in God but believe in natural rights.
I'm not fully set on the natural rights.

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Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
I think 95% of government problems would be eliminated overnight if we pass some accountability laws, which will include prison sentences and financial beatdowns. Anytime there is added debt, congress gets a salary cut of 10%. Everytime there is a scandal (ie IRS going after republicans, Holder and his fun, etc) its a 10 year minimum sentence. Couple that with forced bill participation (by law, politicians would be federally FORCED to participate in ANY program they pass, and they wave their right to ANY free market solution) ie healthcare...it would be ILLEGAL for a politician to use a private doctor for instance...pass laws like that, and you will see both sides of those scumbags change their tune REAL quick.
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Me thinks its too simple of a question, since the answer is so complex. For instance...it is our "human right" to feed ourselves and our families right? I don't think anyone here will argue that. Nowhere does it say you must PAY for said food. Having said that, to hunt for food (or fish) you need a permit for the rifle, a permit to hunt, etc etc etc. Many human rights can be "violated" for the sake of the greater good...or at least that's how they are sold.
I like everything you say.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:18 PM   #47
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The Locke thing was more of a counterpoint to Hobbs. And liberalism in his time was far different to what it is now.
It was a poor counterpoint considering they both subscribed to the idea of surrendering rights to a more powerful authority.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:19 PM   #48
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It was a poor counterpoint considering they both subscribed to the idea of surrendering rights to a more powerful authority.
So no capitalism and no jokes? And you claim to be the party of tolerance.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:24 PM   #49
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FreedomWorks CEO says it's 'a real possibility' Republican Party may split in t

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Me thinks its too simple of a question, since the answer is so complex. For instance...it is our "human right" to feed ourselves and our families right? I don't think anyone here will argue that. Nowhere does it say you must PAY for said food. Having said that, to hunt for food (or fish) you need a permit for the rifle, a permit to hunt, etc etc etc. Many human rights can be "violated" for the sake of the greater good...or at least that's how they are sold.
Fair enough but I was trying to better ascertain his belief system that drives his line of thinking by asking a complex idea in a simple manner.


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Old 10-20-2013, 12:30 PM   #50
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So no capitalism and no jokes? And you claim to be the party of tolerance.
I never claimed to be part of any party or tolerant.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:36 PM   #51
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I never claimed to be part of any party or tolerant.
So you're unaffiliated but staunchly against capitalism. I don't understand you.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:38 PM   #52
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So you're unaffiliated but staunchly against capitalism. I don't understand you.
What are you trying to understand?
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:39 PM   #53
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Fair enough but I was trying to better ascertain his belief system that drives his line of thinking by asking a complex idea in a simple manner.


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I think what while there are "human rights" or innate rights, those rights get curbed once a society is formed.

An extremely anecdotal and over the top example would be...if I lived on my own island, and was starving, I could eat my kid to survive. If I lived in the US and was truly starving, if I ate your kid to survive, I'd be a criminal...even though the innate right was basically the driving factor. I know the example is stupid, just pointing it out. Now, what I do fully support in a libertarian sense, is that people should be able to do anything they want AS LONG AS no other people are harmed by it, and that extends to the environment and property (I can't dump meth lab materials in a creek that flows past your house.) Its just part of the societal deal. I think both sides of the fence as scumbags that need to be reigned in, and have far too much power over us. Its supposed to be the other way around.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:44 PM   #54
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Republicans already have two shittty parties.
I went to one of its parties...they suck. Served just white bread!

Please GOP, split into however many parties you want.

...and I always trust what people with stupid sideburns say!

It will never happen (tl:dr other posts)...it's a threat. Last thing tea-party people want is for Dems to have control forever...kill babies, legalize gay stuff, give out weed on the streets.

Never will happen...too bad...I pray it does.

Just when I thought GOP couldn't get stupider...maybe it will!
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:47 PM   #55
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I went to one of its parties...they suck. Served just white bread!

Please GOP, split into however many parties you want.

...and I always trust what people with stupid sideburns say!

It will never happen (tl:dr other posts)...it's a threat. Last thing tea-party people want is for Dems to have control forever...kill babies, legalize gay stuff, give out weed on the streets.

Never will happen...too bad...I pray it does.

Just when I thought GOP couldn't get stupider...maybe it will!
This guy's jimmies are severely rustled.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:51 PM   #56
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What are you trying to understand?
What is your point in life? What do you want to do with yourself? What do you want to change in the world?!
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:03 PM   #57
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What is your point in life? What do you want to do with yourself? What do you want to change in the world?!
To make as much money as I can at the expensive of others. Create power deficits to remain unchallenged by my network of slaves.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:07 PM   #58
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What are you trying to understand?
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To make as much money as I can at the expensive of others. Create power deficits to remain unchallenged by my network of slaves.
Now, now, it's nice to have dreams but let's be realistic. You can do neither of those things.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:08 PM   #59
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To make as much money as I can at the expensive of others. Create power deficits to remain unchallenged by my network of slaves.
To be fair, any money made is at the expense of others. You earn money, your boss pays you (their expense.) You own a business, you earn money at the expense of your customers. The monetary system is based on it transferring from one party to another at the expense of others. Sometimes that expense is financial (a supermarket for instance) sometimes it is a tragedy (a funeral home) sometimes it is sickness (the healthcare industry), etc. Basically, someone has to lose, for another to gain.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:16 PM   #60
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Now, now, it's nice to have dreams but let's be realistic. You can do neither of those things.
In a world without government I could. Your property would become mine.
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