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Old 10-22-2013, 01:48 PM   #1
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The Shutdown Aftermath.

These (and other) poll numbers ought to be sobering to the GOP and TP, though for the latter at least, probably not enough so:

Basically this only confirms the plainly obvious that the whole GOP/TP shutdown and debt default gambits were immensely foolish, irresponsible and self-damaging escapades that were deeply unpopular with broad swathes of the American people. All the clever spin and revisionism in the world can't gloss over what a self-imposed disaster this was for these two groups.
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:23 PM   #2
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:36 PM   #3
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Last night I was channel surfing and landed on Hannity. Coulter was on. Hannity said "We need MORE Ted Cruzes." With a straight face. Coulter agreed. I feel like they're trolling their own party at this point.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:50 PM   #4
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while cruz has some points that I agree with, I think he's doing his party a great disservice with some of his recent BS
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:51 PM   #5
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while cruz has some points that I agree with, I think he's doing his party a great disservice with some of his recent BS
he's received a hero's welcome in Texas
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:23 PM   #6
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Rhumb, when all is said and done, the American people will historically point their finger at Obama for this mess. Come on, you know this. Look at the legacy of Bush...

Everyone forgets that Congress plays a role.
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Had to turn off the TV... Fox was making more sense than anyone else.

The rest of the world must be laughing at us now. It is so bad slipping to third world status...
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:32 PM   #7
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The Shutdown Aftermath.

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Everyone forgets that Congress plays a role.
Truth.




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Old 10-22-2013, 05:55 PM   #8
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Rhumb, when all is said and done, the American people will historically point their finger at Obama for this mess. Come on, you know this. Look at the legacy of Bush...

Everyone forgets that Congress plays a role.
In 30 days everyone will have forgotten about the shutdown and be worried about Black Friday or the latest news about the Kardashians.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:03 PM   #9
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Rhumb, when all is said and done, the American people will historically point their finger at Obama for this mess. Come on, you know this. Look at the legacy of Bush...

Everyone forgets that Congress plays a role.
Well, if the 1995 shutdowns are any guide to the course of history, I wouldn't be so sanguine about that. In both that case and the Bush II lagacy, the American people have been quite astute about assigning the blame to where it belongs, despite desperate GOP attempts at revisionist history to the contrary.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:23 PM   #10
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And another damning poll ("Skewed," I'm sure ;-)

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CNN Poll: GOP & tea party unfavorables at all-time highs
According to a CNN/ORC International survey released Tuesday, 64% of Americans say they have an unfavorable view of the GOP, an all-time high dating back to 1992 when CNN first asked the question. Only three in 10 say they hold a favorable view of the party.

Fifty-six percent say they have an unfavorable view of the tea party movement, another record high in CNN polling. Only 28% say they see the 4-year-old grassroots conservative movement in a positive light.

The Democratic Party's 43%-51% favorable/unfavorable ratings are basically unchanged from late last month, just before the start of the shutdown.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:51 PM   #11
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the hack is strong with Rhumb
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:26 AM   #12
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Please do dispute those points of mine you may feel to be in error or inaccurate. Are you asserting these polls are somehow inaccurate, even "skewed?" Or just my reading/interpretation of them?
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:18 PM   #13
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Rhumb, when all is said and done, the American people will historically point their finger at Obama for this mess. Come on, you know this. Look at the legacy of Bush...

Everyone forgets that Congress plays a role.
everyone still looks at congress for the '95-'96 shutdown. At least the people who remember it.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:20 PM   #14
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I find the historical correlation interesting. Democrats passed a law (Obamacare) and the republicans are thugs or whatever word-du-jour you'd like to describe them because they are fighting tooth and nail to destroy a law that will harm the country and people. Everyone has their panties in a twist. However, when the republicans were fighting to pass the 13th amendment, and the democrats were fighting to keep slavery, the republicans are heroes.

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On this day in 1865, the U.S. House of Representatives passes the 13th Amendment to the Constitution, abolishing slavery in America. The amendment read, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude...shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

When the Civil War began, President Abraham Lincoln's professed goal was the restoration of the Union. But early in the war, the Union began keeping escaped slaves rather than returning them to their owners, so slavery essentially ended wherever the Union army was victorious. In September 1862, Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing all slaves in areas that were still in rebellion against the Union. This measure opened the issue of what to do about slavery in border states that had not seceded or in areas that had been captured by the Union before the proclamation.

In 1864, an amendment abolishing slavery passed the U.S. Senate but died in the House as Democrats rallied in the name of states' rights. The election of 1864 brought Lincoln back to the White House along with significant Republican majorities in both houses, so it appeared the amendment was headed for passage when the new Congress convened in March 1865. Lincoln preferred that the amendment receive bipartisan support--some Democrats indicated support for the measure, but many still resisted. The amendment passed 119 to 56, seven votes above the necessary two-thirds majority. Several Democrats abstained, but the 13th Amendment was sent to the states for ratification, which came in December 1865. With the passage of the amendment, the institution that had indelibly shaped American history was eradicated.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:26 PM   #15
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I find the historical correlation interesting. Democrats passed a law (Obamacare) and the republicans are thugs or whatever word-du-jour you'd like to describe them because they are fighting tooth and nail to destroy a law that will harm the country and people. Everyone has their panties in a twist. However, when the republicans were fighting to pass the 13th amendment, and the democrats were fighting to keep slavery, the republicans are heroes.
So you're saying that the Democrats now are the Republicans of old who were trying to abolish slavery and today's Republicans are the Democrats who used to battle for the status quo?
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:01 PM   #16
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So you're saying that the Democrats now are the Republicans of old who were trying to abolish slavery and today's Republicans are the Democrats who used to battle for the status quo?
No. What Im saying is for some reason, people today think it was noble for republicans to fight tooth and nail for whats right (back then it was abolishing slavery) but the very same people think its WRONG for republicans to fight tooth and nail to destroy a bad law that will cripple the nation.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:05 PM   #17
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No. What Im saying is for some reason, people today think it was noble for republicans to fight tooth and nail for whats right (back then it was abolishing slavery) but the very same people think its WRONG for republicans to fight tooth and nail to destroy a bad law that will cripple the nation.
Well in about 200 years the world can look back and determine if today's Repubs are on the right side of history.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:08 PM   #18
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No. What Im saying is for some reason, people today think it was noble for republicans to fight tooth and nail for whats right (back then it was abolishing slavery) but the very same people think its WRONG for republicans to fight tooth and nail to destroy a bad law that will cripple the nation.
it was a hard sell for a lot of people that slavery was wrong, and should be abolished. But they had a large portion of the country behind them, as well as historical international precedent.

Abolishing the ACA is a really hard sell. If they want to get it removed, they need to sell to the people their vision of why it's so terrible. So far, they have failed miserably at doing that. There is a large chunk of people who support it, the president whose name is on the bill is still in office, and the Senate is opposed to doing away with it.

They have a serious uphill battle to fight, and haven't been able to provide much meaningful argument against it other than tying the democratic president's name to it in an effort to demonize the law.

They want it gone? They need to get the buy-in of the nation, not just their rabid followers.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:20 PM   #19
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Well in about 200 years the world can look back and determine if today's Repubs are on the right side of history.
Forget the labels of Democrat and Republican, since we know their positions have reversed and changed on many topics.

Conservative and progressive/liberal? How have they fared through history and who has been proven to be on the right side of history more often?
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:31 PM   #20
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Well in about 200 years the world can look back and determine if today's Repubs are on the right side of history.
Thats not the point. The point is the fight itself. Is it noble to fight for what you (50% of the country and the GOP) believe in (or in this case, what you believe is wrong?) Its the core principle Im talking about, not the actual love/hate obamacare debate.
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