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Old 10-23-2013, 01:33 PM   #21
'busa
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Thats not the point. The point is the fight itself. Is it noble to fight for what you (50% of the country and the GOP) believe in (or in this case, what you believe is wrong?) Its the core principle Im talking about, not the actual love/hate obamacare debate.
Is Obamacare anywhere near as bad as slavery? Is fighting against it anywhere as noble? Is fighting for Obamacare anywhere near as bad as fighting to keep slavery?
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:34 PM   #22
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it was a hard sell for a lot of people that slavery was wrong, and should be abolished. But they had a large portion of the country behind them, as well as historical international precedent.

Abolishing the ACA is a really hard sell. If they want to get it removed, they need to sell to the people their vision of why it's so terrible. So far, they have failed miserably at doing that. There is a large chunk of people who support it, the president whose name is on the bill is still in office, and the Senate is opposed to doing away with it.

They have a serious uphill battle to fight, and haven't been able to provide much meaningful argument against it other than tying the democratic president's name to it in an effort to demonize the law.

They want it gone? They need to get the buy-in of the nation, not just their rabid followers.
Unfortunately the only sell at this point will be the implementation of the system. I personally don't agree with what the republicans are doing. If I was in charge of the GOP, I would have stepped aside (or done whatever possible to accelerate the implementation of ACA) and let the law do its thing. Within 2-3 years, no democrat will ever hold office for the next 100 years.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:37 PM   #23
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Unfortunately the only sell at this point will be the implementation of the system. I personally don't agree with what the republicans are doing. If I was in charge of the GOP, I would have stepped aside (or done whatever possible to accelerate the implementation of ACA) and let the law do its thing. Within 2-3 years, no democrat will ever hold office for the next 100 years.


Is that what talk radio is spoonfeeding its audience now?
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:37 PM   #24
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Unfortunately the only sell at this point will be the implementation of the system. I personally don't agree with what the republicans are doing. If I was in charge of the GOP, I would have stepped aside (or done whatever possible to accelerate the implementation of ACA) and let the law do its thing. Within 2-3 years, no democrat will ever hold office for the next 100 years.
speculation.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:45 PM   #25
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I'm surprised nobody's brought up here how the ACA supposedly allows the government to conduct forced home inspections to remove children from at risk homes. At risk meaning tobacco users, gun owners, and young single mothers.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:50 PM   #26
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I'm surprised nobody's brought up here how the ACA supposedly allows the government to conduct forced home inspections to remove children from at risk homes. At risk meaning tobacco users, gun owners, and young single mothers.
I don't bother with "supposedly" items without sources to turn them into actual claims. Supposedly people who do are captured by Putin and forced to groom unicorns all day...

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Old 10-23-2013, 01:53 PM   #27
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The republican party needs to start putting out some positive messages. The vast majority of things that have come out of there recently are about how this or that policy, law, regulation, position, person, etc is/are going to cause the end of freedom and America as we know it. They've been selling doom and gloom for several years now, and none of it is coming to pass. They need to start painting a positive picture of what they're trying to do for us, so that they can draw back in the moderate crowd.
"Obamacare will ruin us"
"Well, what's going to happen?"
"Debt! Spending!"
"Well, what's going to happen?"
"The Chinese will take over!"
"Really, how will that happen?"
"Because debt! This will end us!"
"How is that?"
"Because it's terrible! Socialism! Intrusion! Obama! America is going to die! Crying eagles!
"Ok, well, we're going to go govern now."
"But you'll destroy everything!"
"Ok. Let us know when you're ready to actually work. While you're playing chicken little, we're going to keep doing whatever we want."
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:55 PM   #28
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I don't bother with "supposedly" items without sources to turn them into actual claims. Supposedly people who do are captured by Putin and forced to groom unicorns all day...

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At least Putin is a real man. When was the last time Obama went whale hunting with a crossbow?
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:55 PM   #29
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Poll showing majority of Americans are stupid? I'm amazing.

Our fiscal calamity is being orchestrated by the Liberals. In 200 years, when Americans are speaking chinese and forced to work at fast food places to service our ASPAC over rulers, they will still look back and think the republican's screwed up. It's because people are stupid. It's because accountability died... in the 90's.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:56 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
The republican party needs to start putting out some positive messages. The vast majority of things that have come out of there recently are about how this or that policy, law, regulation, position, person, etc is/are going to cause the end of freedom and America as we know it. They've been selling doom and gloom for several years now, and none of it is coming to pass. They need to start painting a positive picture of what they're trying to do for us, so that they can draw back in the moderate crowd.
"Obamacare will ruin us"
"Well, what's going to happen?"
"Debt! Spending!"
"Well, what's going to happen?"
"The Chinese will take over!"
"Really, how will that happen?"
"Because debt! This will end us!"
"How is that?"
"Because it's terrible! Socialism! Intrusion! Obama! America is going to die! Crying eagles!
"Ok, well, we're going to go govern now."
"But you'll destroy everything!"
"Ok. Let us know when you're ready to actually work. While you're playing chicken little, we're going to keep doing whatever we want."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum View Post
Poll showing majority of Americans are stupid? I'm amazing.

Our fiscal calamity is being orchestrated by the Liberals. In 200 years, when Americans are speaking chinese and forced to work at fast food places to service our ASPAC over rulers, they will still look back and think the republican's screwed up. It's because people are stupid. It's because accountability died... in the 90's.
thank you for supporting my point.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
The republican party needs to start putting out some positive messages. The vast majority of things that have come out of there recently are about how this or that policy, law, regulation, position, person, etc is/are going to cause the end of freedom and America as we know it. They've been selling doom and gloom for several years now, and none of it is coming to pass. They need to start painting a positive picture of what they're trying to do for us, so that they can draw back in the moderate crowd.
"Obamacare will ruin us"
"Well, what's going to happen?"
"Debt! Spending!"
"Well, what's going to happen?"
"The Chinese will take over!"
"Really, how will that happen?"
"Because debt! This will end us!"
"How is that?"
"Because it's terrible! Socialism! Intrusion! Obama! America is going to die! Crying eagles!
"Ok, well, we're going to go govern now."
"But you'll destroy everything!"
"Ok. Let us know when you're ready to actually work. While you're playing chicken little, we're going to keep doing whatever we want."
This is true. On my lunch break, I briefly turned on AM Radio. In the 20 minutes I spent in the car I was advertised LifeLock to protect my identity, an alarm system for my house to prevent my wife and daughter from getting raped and offered silver to protect against the upcoming financial troubles.

What do you expect?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carskibum View Post
Poll showing majority of Americans are stupid? I'm amazing.

Our fiscal calamity is being orchestrated by the Liberals. In 200 years, when Americans are speaking chinese and forced to work at fast food places to service our ASPAC over rulers, they will still look back and think the republican's screwed up. It's because people are stupid. It's because accountability died... in the 90's.
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thank you for supporting my point.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:08 PM   #32
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his post couldn't possibly have been better timed.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:11 PM   #33
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Our fiscal calamity is being orchestrated by the Liberals.
who started 2 wars and kept them off the accounting books?
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:19 PM   #34
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Is Obamacare anywhere near as bad as slavery? Is fighting against it anywhere as noble? Is fighting for Obamacare anywhere near as bad as fighting to keep slavery?
Id argue that making people lose all their money (both from paying higher premiums, not being able to afford AND have access to quality medical treatments, not being able to have access to medical treatments in a timely fashion) and the certain heavy devaluation of the dollar qualifies. There is no "as bas as." It is certainly going to hurt people. Many will argue BTW that slavery never stopped, it simply tranferred from rich whites all around the country, to the politicians in Washington. Many are slaves to make ends meet, slaves to the inner cities, etc.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:21 PM   #35
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speculation.
Absolutely, but Id easily place a bet that within a few years of Obamacare being law, the people will have enough. Most people ignore what happens in washington until something hurts them personally, and watching their bank accounts dwindle, their hours being cut, their jobs being cut, etc, will be personal. Call it a prediction I guess. We can come back to this thread in 1-2 years and see whats what.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:23 PM   #36
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Id argue that making people lose all their money (both from paying higher premiums, not being able to afford AND have access to quality medical treatments, not being able to have access to medical treatments in a timely fashion) and the certain heavy devaluation of the dollar qualifies. There is no "as bas as." It is certainly going to hurt people. Many will argue BTW that slavery never stopped, it simply tranferred from rich whites all around the country, to the polticians in Washington. Many are slaves to make ends meet, slaves to the inner cities, etc.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like Obamacare?
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:24 PM   #37
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Id argue that making people lose all their money (both from paying higher premiums, not being able to afford AND have access to quality medical treatments, not being able to have access to medical treatments in a timely fashion) and the certain heavy devaluation of the dollar qualifies. There is no "as bas as." It is certainly going to hurt people. Many will argue BTW that slavery never stopped, it simply tranferred from rich whites all around the country, to the politicians in Washington. Many are slaves to make ends meet, slaves to the inner cities, etc.
Who would argue that?
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:24 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
The republican party needs to start putting out some positive messages. The vast majority of things that have come out of there recently are about how this or that policy, law, regulation, position, person, etc is/are going to cause the end of freedom and America as we know it. They've been selling doom and gloom for several years now, and none of it is coming to pass. They need to start painting a positive picture of what they're trying to do for us, so that they can draw back in the moderate crowd.
"Obamacare will ruin us"
"Well, what's going to happen?"
"Debt! Spending!"
"Well, what's going to happen?"
"The Chinese will take over!"
"Really, how will that happen?"
"Because debt! This will end us!"
"How is that?"
"Because it's terrible! Socialism! Intrusion! Obama! America is going to die! Crying eagles!
"Ok, well, we're going to go govern now."
"But you'll destroy everything!"
"Ok. Let us know when you're ready to actually work. While you're playing chicken little, we're going to keep doing whatever we want."
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Id argue that making people lose all their money (both from paying higher premiums, not being able to afford AND have access to quality medical treatments, not being able to have access to medical treatments in a timely fashion) and the certain heavy devaluation of the dollar qualifies. There is no "as bas as." It is certainly going to hurt people. Many will argue BTW that slavery never stopped, it simply tranferred from rich whites all around the country, to the politicians in Washington. Many are slaves to make ends meet, slaves to the inner cities, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Absolutely, but Id easily place a bet that within a few years of Obamacare being law, the people will have enough. Most people ignore what happens in washington until something hurts them personally, and watching their bank accounts dwindle, their hours being cut, their jobs being cut, etc, will be personal. Call it a prediction I guess. We can come back to this thread in 1-2 years and see whats what.
three for three.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:28 PM   #39
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Who would argue that?
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:29 PM   #40
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three for three.
Not sure what you mean, but I've outlined in many a thread why this law will epically fail. It's not even implemented yet, and people are seeing MASSIVE increases, people are seeing their plans/doctors/hospitals being inaccessible to them, etc. If you believe this system has a chance, or its even possible to fix, then a discussion on the matter is useless. There is nothing to fix with Obamacare. It will not solve the problem it intends to. Obviously Im speculating, but so is everyone else (including washington.)
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