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Political Talk
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:37 PM   #21
MDydinanM
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but to your point, the federal government seems more concerned about their perks than whats actually good for the rest of society (afterthought).
and just who are you talking about here? Rank and file Fed govt employees or SES, Politicians, Congress, etc?

I guarantee you that rank and file lowly govt employees are not concerned over "perks" other than making sure they have basic needs (health care insurance, they get their pay check on time, etc). Other than that, they're more concerned about meeting deadlines, meeting mission, their boss's requirements and expectations, etc.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:39 PM   #22
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and just who are you talking about here? Rank and file Fed govt employees or SES, Politicians, Congress, etc?

I guarantee you that rank and file lowly govt employees are not concerned over "perks" other than making sure they have basic needs (health care insurance, they get their pay check on time, etc). Other than that, they're more concerned about meeting deadlines, meeting mission, their boss's requirements and expectations, etc.
the managers of the rank and files and up the ladder...

basically you are just an innocent caught in the crossfire if you are a rank and file.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:12 AM   #23
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Whoa whoa whoa. They are a completely legitimate organization just doing what the military can't because they're more efficient!
Or because they don't have to adhere to the same standards and rules of conduct? Because they charge more for the same tasks? Because they don't fall under the government umbrella so who cares what they do and when they die?
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:22 AM   #24
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Regardless of which party is dominant, don't forget the mismanaged cost overruns necessary to perform any government function, the expensive infrastructure to house them, the perks needed to keep them motivated, and the list goes on and on...

but to your point, the federal government seems more concerned about their perks than whats actually good for the rest of society (afterthought). I mean after all, if both parties are concerned about balancing the budget, why haven't they taken pay cuts to help. People in the private sector do it all the time. Instead they just furlough, freeze hiring, and blame that we are not taxing enough.
Examples please, and especially any data indicating these problems are somehow endemic to the Federal government rather than isolated issues. I know these are all blithe right wing talking points, generally accepted as truth without underlying facts and data, but I think these broad assertions need to be more robustly supported rather than simply taken as true.

As for your second paragraph, perhaps the focus should not be on ever more severe constriction, austerity and decline but rather, on growth, prosperity and a robust ascent into the future, whether in the public or private economic spheres. Yes, people in the private sector do furlough, freeze hiring or cut jobs, but I would think these are things we should work to avoid, not emulate.

And who precisely are you saying is more concerned with perks over the public good? The general government worker making a modest wage trying to put a roof over his head, food in his families mouths and send his kids to college? Or members of the political branches? Or both and how to you back up this assertion?

Our middle class is already constricting enough, which, in our consumer society, will lead to inevitable decline for everybody. Who do you think will buy the 1%s wares if the 99% have less and less to spend to afford them?

Yes, a more balanced national budget is desirable in the abstract, but there are many ways to achieve that end, not only through ruthless cutting which, if Europes austerity-heavy approach is any indication, can be very counter productive and has consigned them to a much deeper and prolonged recovery than the U.S., which used a more, if arguably insufficient, stimulus approach.

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Old 10-23-2013, 10:32 AM   #25
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Or because they don't have to adhere to the same standards and rules of conduct? Because they charge more for the same tasks? Because they don't fall under the government umbrella so who cares what they do and when they die?
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:51 AM   #26
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Examples please, and especially any data indicating these problems are somehow endemic to the Federal government rather than isolated issues. I know these are all blithe right wing talking points, generally accepted as truth without underlying facts and data, but I think these broad assertions need to be more robustly supported rather than simply taken as true.

As for your second paragraph, perhaps the focus should not be on ever more severe constriction, austerity and decline but rather, on growth, prosperity and a robust ascent into the future, whether in the public or private economic spheres. Yes, people in the private sector do furlough, freeze hiring or cut jobs, but I would think these are things we should work to avoid, not emulate.

And who precisely are you saying is more concerned with perks over the public good? The general government worker making a modest wage trying to put a roof over his head, food in his families mouths and send his kids to college? Or members of the political branches? Or both and how to you back up this assertion?

Our middle class is already constricting enough, which, in our consumer society, will lead to inevitable decline for everybody. Who do you think will buy the 1%s wares if the 99% have less and less to spend to afford them?

Yes, a more balanced national budget is desirable in the abstract, but there are many ways to achieve that end, not only through ruthless cutting which, if Europes austerity-heavy approach is any indication, can be very counter productive and has consigned them to a much deeper and prolonged recovery than the U.S., which used a more, if arguably insufficient, stimulus approach.
not sure if pulling up data would be even worth it at this point. based on your past responses in the political forum you seem very hard press to accept any source of data that argues in favor of right wing points and suggest they are non-credible, endlessly scrutinizing them unless it came from some left-wing source (please don't tell me to pull up data for that too, I'm sure other members who agree is evidence enough).

you remain hopeful that austerity can be avoided yet an entire European continent-which is far more liberal and equally capable than the US could not figure out how to do so within their own borders. let me turn the tables and ask you where are the FACTS and recent examples that an alternative exists and actually worked? There is far more evidence of common debtors society continue towards the path of financial and economic ruin even if relief (ie. debt forgiveness) is provided

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:31 PM   #27
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It's just that the meme of a wasteful federal government is tossed about so often and readily yet I'm not aware of anything factual supporting that general assertion. Of course there are wasteful, inefficient and incompetent elements within the federal (and other) governments, as is pretty much true of any human endeavor, but I see little to nothing actually supporting the broader political/ideological assertion so often made by those on the right that seems to undergird so much of their current rhetoric and policy. I seem to recall that Medicare and Medicaid services are delivered with a very slim administrative overhead of around 5% whereas most public insurance companies take around a 25% slice of every dollar delivered, so perhaps this "inefficient government" idea ought not to be necessarily taken as a given.

As for approaches to growth and/or balanced budget, and/or jobs (not all necessarily the same thing), there are a wide range of ideas and approaches. Certainly there are the ones currently circulated on the right which seem to basically revolve around various, sometimes inchoate, austerity fiscal policies and cutting taxes. However, cutting taxes have generally lead to increases rather than decreases in the deficit and debt while austerity programs seem to strangle economic growth. Other approaches might be a more stimulative economic approach which seems to have worked better for us in the U.S. while increased revenues (taxes) would help address budget deficits and our debt.

Certainly this is a complex realm and if a country's underlying economic base structure is weak, then fiscal/monetary tweaks will fail to prevent a day of reckoning. However, I believe the U.S.'s economy is basically still very sound and that the proper fiscal approaches can have a big impact on either constricting it or allowing it to better thrive. In the end, I think perhaps a mix of approaches, perhaps along the lines of the Simpson/Bowles plan, would be the most appropriate, one the incorporates a mix of smart, targeted cuts and revenue among other things.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:34 PM   #28
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I think we should privatize the post office. It needs an influx of cash to build out inefficiencies but the Government can't justify that. Fedex or similar needs to take it, throw some cash at it and then run lean going forward. Polish that turd into a lean blue machine.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:38 PM   #29
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Bloated Federal Government Workforce???

Maybe if the USPS' cash reserves weren't tied up in a future prepaid pension fund, they wouldn't need an influx of cash to fix themselves.


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Old 10-23-2013, 03:38 PM   #30
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I think we should privatize the post office. It needs an influx of cash to build out inefficiencies but the Government can't justify that. Fedex or similar needs to take it, throw some cash at it and then run lean going forward. Polish that turd into a lean blue machine.
How much does FedEx charge to send a letter?
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Maybe if the USPS' cash reserves weren't tied up in a future prepaid pension fund, they wouldn't need an influx of cash to fix themselves.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:59 PM   #31
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Not so much it seems, federal employment is at 47-year low
(from NYT):
You really cannot be that naive? Multiple books have been written detailing this from contractor to technology implementation showcasing an increase that resides around the 10% mark.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:12 PM   #32
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I think we should privatize the post office. It needs an influx of cash to build out inefficiencies but the Government can't justify that. Fedex or similar needs to take it, throw some cash at it and then run lean going forward. Polish that turd into a lean blue machine.
Privatize the postal service completely...aw snap, I'd charge like $1.00/stamp.


Kidding guys.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:21 PM   #33
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You know, if everyone was employed by the government we'd have virtually no unemployment!
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:26 PM   #34
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You know, if everyone was employed by the government we'd have virtually no unemployment!
Yes... If everyone was employed there wouldn't be unemployment. What a profound statement, our lord.


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Old 10-23-2013, 04:29 PM   #35
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Yes... If everyone was employed there wouldn't be unemployment. What a profound statement, our lord.


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Old 10-23-2013, 04:50 PM   #36
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I think we should privatize the post office. It needs an influx of cash to build out inefficiencies but the Government can't justify that. Fedex or similar needs to take it, throw some cash at it and then run lean going forward. Polish that turd into a lean blue machine.
Lean.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:50 PM   #37
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You really cannot be that naive? Multiple books have been written detailing this from contractor to technology implementation showcasing an increase that resides around the 10% mark.
Please share your data/sources.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:51 PM   #38
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Yes... If everyone was employed there wouldn't be unemployment. What a profound statement, our lord.
Sounds like a utopian paradise to me, wonder if anyone's tried it before?
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:53 PM   #39
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Sounds like a utopian paradise to me, wonder if anyone's tried it before?
100% employment is easy. Make everyone who isn't employed right now a ditch digger.


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Old 10-23-2013, 04:54 PM   #40
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Sounds like a utopian paradise to me, wonder if anyone's tried it before?
ZOMG! Communism!!

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