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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 10-23-2013, 01:18 AM   #1
want2bboosted
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Megasquirt on e46 325ci? or any cheap standalone/piggyback?

So I started a post about turbo plans for my 325ci. got tons of its not possible/not worth the money etc.

then the tuning issues.

and as far as I know I dont have any local tuner in the bay area california than can tune stock ecu/dme?

if you know someone please let me know.


well anyways. Im pretty dam persistent and still want the thing turbo so I kept on searching.

seems like the only way to keep the "options"/certain functions in the car alive/working is to run a standalone in series.

the cheapest standalone I know of is megasquirt.

is there any cheaper way to tune this thing? what other piggy back can we use?

id imagine I would need two basic control at minimum.

a/f ratio control (or fuel)
and timing


goals is 450whp

plans are 3.0 stroker upgrade
so
3.0 crank
3.0 forge rods
3.0 forge piston
mls and studs
stock heads


turbo kit hotside and coldside are all planned out already. fuel is still up in the air but its hp dependent. not too sure yet if im going to aim 550-600whp just yet.


what im thinking of is hooking up the MS it the car as it sits (car has intake and exhaust) and tune that. then once its fully functioning and bugs worked out then drop a turbo in.



btw this is inspired by:
http://m54megasquirt3.blogspot.com/




as for drive terrain I want to upgrade to m3 full rear end and m3 6-speed.
does anyone know is the 6-speed from s54 bolt up to m54?
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:48 AM   #2
SoloII///M
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Megasquirt on e46 325ci? or any cheap standalone/piggyback?

You won't be using the MS in series with the stock DME. it's a standalone system.

You have a ton of money that will be tied up in parts you're going to buy and make to fit together, why so focused on cheap for the engine management? Megasquirt can be reasonably affordable for the hardware but the tuning to make what you want work will be expensive... it'll be a lot of time on the dyno and on the road tuning the driveability.
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'02 330Ci - Megasquirt 3 tuned by PFTuning.com, M50 manifold, Kromer Kraft headers, Motons, widebody, etc.

Last edited by SoloII///M; 10-23-2013 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:04 AM   #3
want2bboosted
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Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
You won't be using the MS in series with the stock DME. it's a standalone system.

You have a ton of money that will be tied up in parts you're going to buy and make to fit together, why so focused on cheap for the engine management? Megasquirt can be reasonably affordable for the hardware but the tuning to make what you want work will be expensive... it'll be a lot of time on the dyno and on the road tuning the driveability.
because MS has been proven to work and if a park works for less money then why not.

im trying to keep the cost down all the way around.

with my plans id only spent about 1k-1.5k for hotside and cold side.

I really dont think ill have tons of money that will be tied up in parts.


infact tuning will be the most expensive "part / sub-sytem" in the whole car if i go stand alone.

and ok maybe i worded that wrong maybe its called parallel or whatever. basically keeping the stock ecu in place.

with other standalone its possible why not MS?
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:32 AM   #4
SoloII///M
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Megasquirt on e46 325ci? or any cheap standalone/piggyback?

MS is speed density based and the stock DME is MAF based. How do you intend to link them? What standalone systems are designed up work with the stock DME? I don't know of any.

The MS3 on my car works great, no need for the DME :-).


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Old 10-23-2013, 11:07 PM   #5
want2bboosted
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Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
MS is speed density based and the stock DME is MAF based. How do you intend to link them? What standalone systems are designed up work with the stock DME? I don't know of any.

The MS3 on my car works great, no need for the DME :-).


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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the components.

So in a bmw we have dme and ecu? Or is that the same unit?
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:22 AM   #6
daniel_f.
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you will replace the ecu, called dme, with ms. no piggyback.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:48 AM   #7
want2bboosted
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Originally Posted by daniel_f. View Post
you will replace the ecu, called dme, with ms. no piggyback.


Ok so I did understand it correctly. Reason I said that is because one of the turbo 325 I think his username is Bimmerguy? Used a standalone and set it up as a piggyback.

Solo with the factory dme removed what functions did the car loose exactly?

I've read good things about ms but without knowing what I would loose from ditching the DME I can't take the plunge just yet.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:07 AM   #8
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You mean what did it lose? Well, traction control and stability control for one. MS has various ways to implement traction control and launch control but I don't personally use them. OBD compatibility is gone as well. As far as I know everything else works.

I have no idea how you would set up a standalone as a piggyback. I have never heard of anyone doing that with a Megasquirt but I'm not an expert.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #9
want2bboosted
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Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
You mean what did it lose? Well, traction control and stability control for one. MS has various ways to implement traction control and launch control but I don't personally use them. OBD compatibility is gone as well. As far as I know everything else works.

I have no idea how you would set up a standalone as a piggyback. I have never heard of anyone doing that with a Megasquirt but I'm not an expert.
Not ms. It's someother standalone.

That's fine with me. All my cars before didn't have those so I'm sure I can live without it.

If that's all you loose then what is all the hate again modding a 325?

When I posted about it people made it seems like I'd be spending shit tons of money to tune it and that's only if I can even find away to tune it.

It made me believe that switching to standalone I'd loose comfy features or like dash won't work and I'll need aftermarket garages or something like that.


Thanks for clarifying. Do you have a build thread by any chance?

And how did you spend on the MS?
If you don't mind me asking what did you add to their base kit.
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:14 PM   #10
want2bboosted
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Oh Btw what about the vanos? Can ms control it?

And I'm assuming this also works for m3?

Buddy of mine has one and his thinking of turbo too and so his curious how compatible the MS is with double vanos
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:14 PM   #11
SoloII///M
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Megasquirt on e46 325ci? or any cheap standalone/piggyback?

Not sure what you mean by base cost. I don't have a build thread either.

It's a MS3. All the gauges work. The e-fan works. Full control of Vanos.

I built all the conversion parts myself except the wiring harness which was built by my tuner's guy. It was not cheap.

Don't know what you mean about hate regarding tuning a 325. It makes more sense to start with a 330 engine, but you can certainly work with a 325 engine, it will just cost more to get to the same power level.

I'd you're serious about doing a standalone conversion I would get the car running with MS3 first and then start doing the power adders.


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Old 10-25-2013, 12:12 PM   #12
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Glad to see MS is making its way around here...
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:09 PM   #13
SoloII///M
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It's not perfect but it has a lot of advantages over using the DME.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:25 AM   #14
want2bboosted
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Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
Not sure what you mean by base cost. I don't have a build thread either.

It's a MS3. All the gauges work. The e-fan works. Full control of Vanos.

I built all the conversion parts myself except the wiring harness which was built by my tuner's guy. It was not cheap.

Don't know what you mean about hate regarding tuning a 325. It makes more sense to start with a 330 engine, but you can certainly work with a 325 engine, it will just cost more to get to the same power level.

I'd you're serious about doing a standalone conversion I would get the car running with MS3 first and then start doing the power adders.


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cool.

ya i havent looked at MS for a while but when I looked at it they had an option of buying a starter kit and build one instead of one thats already built so was curious if yours was pre built or made from "scratch".

looking to do this and learn everything I can about MS. But wanted to make sure this was something I want to go with.

can you give me a ballpark figure of how much it cost to set up the car with MS? in parts cost.

and what I mean is that when I ask about modding 325 for power I get a lot of sell the car and get an m3. or ill be spending more than what an M3 would cost to go as fast as the M3. I ofcourse completely disagree as this car cost me 3.5k and m3 now are in the 15+k.


anyways back on topic.
thats exactly how I want to run it actually. I wanted to set it up for ms and once I get everything in line add the Turbo. Id imagine it would be a lot simpler this way than adding a turbo and MS and making a timing and fuel map all at once. not to mention making the SD tables.?

I have some experience tuning ecmlink which is very close to a standalone so id Imagine it being close to it with extra work of course.



as far as 3.0 vs 2.5
Im looking to run my 2.5 w/ 3.0 crank /piston and rods.
personal reference to do a stroker rather than full swap.


btw does the m3 6 speed bolt up to m54b25?
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:43 AM   #15
SoloII///M
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Just for all the hardware for the MS system (the box and the wiring) it was around $1500. Then there are all the ancillary things, like a cable actuated throttle, a throttle cable, conversion of the throttle pedal, the wideband sensor, various fabricated brackets and mounts, the tuning... it all adds up. I converted to flex fuel as well so that added extra cost. Injectors, fuel pump, flex sensor, AN fittings and fuel line, etc.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:11 AM   #16
want2bboosted
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Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
Just for all the hardware for the MS system (the box and the wiring) it was around $1500. Then there are all the ancillary things, like a cable actuated throttle, a throttle cable, conversion of the throttle pedal, the wideband sensor, various fabricated brackets and mounts, the tuning... it all adds up. I converted to flex fuel as well so that added extra cost. Injectors, fuel pump, flex sensor, AN fittings and fuel line, etc.
sounds good. this is definitely way cheaper than the other standalone ive seen to worked with e46.
and ya id expected to spend a few hundred just on little things, its to be expected.

thanks for all the info.
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Old 10-29-2013, 03:28 PM   #17
Bino5150
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it's been a few years since I've fooled with MS, but when we were using them on the Mazda KLZE engines, it was like $150-$250 for the kit, you biuld it yourself.
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Old 10-30-2013, 03:39 AM   #18
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You run the standalone in parallel with the stock DME, not series. DME will control your DBW and vanos and the EMS the timing and fuel. you will have to simulate injectors and coils to stay emissions compliant. I have a Haltech running my 330.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:37 AM   #19
want2bboosted
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it's been a few years since I've fooled with MS, but when we were using them on the Mazda KLZE engines, it was like $150-$250 for the kit, you biuld it yourself.
Really? When I was looking at it it was 400 for build your own and not even the MS xtra
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:38 AM   #20
want2bboosted
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Originally Posted by mazdero View Post
You run the standalone in parallel with the stock DME, not series. DME will control your DBW and vanos and the EMS the timing and fuel. you will have to simulate injectors and coils to stay emissions compliant. I have a Haltech running my 330.
Right that's what it was I guess I had parallel and series confused. Thanks for clarifying that and for detailed info.

Do you happen to have a built thread or writeup on doing these
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