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Old 01-02-2014, 08:47 PM   #81
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When it comes to healthcare, I'm conflicted. On one hand, there are TONS of jobs out there that provide great insurance, make it a priority to secure those jobs even if it would mean a pay cut. If you don't have insurance, don't bitch when you crash your quad.

On the other hand, the actual line items and over all cost is absurd. I mean really, to ride in a privatized ambulance shouldn't have a comma in it. 2hrs in a waiting room, fvck the hospital should pay me for sitting in that shithole.


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Again, the amount billed (the amount you always see in the articles) is not the ACTUAL cost. If hospitals/doctors are told you are going to pay cash, watch the price change. An ambulance ride is around $300 in cash. Remember, an average cab ride in NYC is around $20. The ambulance is expensive to buy, expensive to run, must have a driver, two LICENSED paramedics in it, etc. Hell, BMW charges $110 an hour the last time I checked, probably higher now. I've said it many times, it costs money to provide quality healthcare. If you want an MRI scan, it costs money. The machines are close to a million dollars, some even more. You need an experienced tech to run it. If we had 1960s healthcare, sure it would cost less, but if we want the best, it costs money, sometimes, a lot of money. I agree, the billed amounts are astronomical, but those are not the amounts that patients would actually pay if they were paying the bill directly. Hospitals are FULLY aware that no one is going to pay the billed amount out of their pockets, and 90% of their claims would end up in collections...thats a dumb way to run a business. A doctor's visit gets billed out at around $250. If you go to the same doctor and tell them "Im paying cash" suddenly the cost is $75. This is why I always just had catastrophic insurance (when I buy my own.) I just pay cash for doctors when i need em (it is FAR FAR FAR FAR cheaper to pay a doctor in cash the few times you need them then to pay hundreds of dollars a month, every money for insurance to cover said doctor's visit) and had emergency insurance that covers only dire emergencies. But now, Obummer has cancelled mine and my daughter's insurance. We were paying around $400 a month for the both of us....now a plan with a higher deductible will run around $900 a month.
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Old 01-03-2014, 12:20 AM   #82
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Re: where else can ya get a room for 2 hours for 7k?

Nfr knows whats up

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My dad's rabies shots were billed around $10k. It was a series of shots over a period of a few weeks but in the end it is just shots. I was blown away when he told me.
Not all shots are created equal. You'd be extremely surprised at the cost of some "shots" / drugs.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:14 AM   #83
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I just pay cash for doctors when i need em (it is FAR FAR FAR FAR cheaper to pay a doctor in cash the few times you need them then to pay hundreds of dollars a month, every money for insurance to cover said doctor's visit) and had emergency insurance that covers only dire emergencies. But now, Obummer has cancelled mine and my daughter's insurance. We were paying around $400 a month for the both of us....now a plan with a higher deductible will run around $900 a month.
And this is how it should be. Why is it so hard for you socialized medicine supporters to understand this? If health insurance covered everything, that would be like having car insurance that covers gas, repairs, and little trees. Insurance should only be for sudden emergencies. Leave this up to the free market and care will get better and prices will drop.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:50 AM   #84
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Re: where else can ya get a room for 2 hours for 7k?

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And this is how it should be. Why is it so hard for you socialized medicine supporters to understand this? If health insurance covered everything, that would be like having car insurance that covers gas, repairs, and little trees. Insurance should only be for sudden emergencies. Leave this up to the free market and care will get better and prices will drop.
And what are people like me supposed to do in the mean time? I have to pay more in drugs (insulin and other medical supplies) than any of my other bills. Wait it out? I will be blind and missing a few toes if not more by then. Insulin just went up to $200 a bottle, I need at least 2 a month. Test strips are worse. Then there are the quarterly doctors visits. All out of pocket. The only way my insurance would ever pay off is if I had an emergency in January of every year, then file bankruptcy since there is no way I could pay that bill.
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:08 AM   #85
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And this is how it should be. Why is it so hard for you socialized medicine supporters to understand this? If health insurance covered everything, that would be like having car insurance that covers gas, repairs, and little trees. Insurance should only be for sudden emergencies. Leave this up to the free market and care will get better and prices will drop.
Lol ****
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:10 AM   #86
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Re: where else can ya get a room for 2 hours for 7k?

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Again, the amount billed (the amount you always see in the articles) is not the ACTUAL cost. If hospitals/doctors are told you are going to pay cash, watch the price change. An ambulance ride is around $300 in cash. Remember, an average cab ride in NYC is around $20. The ambulance is expensive to buy, expensive to run, must have a driver, two LICENSED paramedics in it, etc. Hell, BMW charges $110 an hour the last time I checked, probably higher now. I've said it many times, it costs money to provide quality healthcare. If you want an MRI scan, it costs money. The machines are close to a million dollars, some even more. You need an experienced tech to run it. If we had 1960s healthcare, sure it would cost less, but if we want the best, it costs money, sometimes, a lot of money. I agree, the billed amounts are astronomical, but those are not the amounts that patients would actually pay if they were paying the bill directly. Hospitals are FULLY aware that no one is going to pay the billed amount out of their pockets, and 90% of their claims would end up in collections...thats a dumb way to run a business. A doctor's visit gets billed out at around $250. If you go to the same doctor and tell them "Im paying cash" suddenly the cost is $75. This is why I always just had catastrophic insurance (when I buy my own.) I just pay cash for doctors when i need em (it is FAR FAR FAR FAR cheaper to pay a doctor in cash the few times you need them then to pay hundreds of dollars a month, every money for insurance to cover said doctor's visit) and had emergency insurance that covers only dire emergencies. But now, Obummer has cancelled mine and my daughter's insurance. We were paying around $400 a month for the both of us....now a plan with a higher deductible will run around $900 a month.
If you develop something chronic and need to take meds for it like ld330 you'll be glad to have insurance
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:16 AM   #87
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where else can ya get a room for 2 hours for 7k?

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And this is how it should be. Why is it so hard for you socialized medicine supporters to understand this? If health insurance covered everything, that would be like having car insurance that covers gas, repairs, and little trees. Insurance should only be for sudden emergencies. Leave this up to the free market and care will get better and prices will drop.
In your opinion, what should health insurance not cover? What would you consider "gas, repairs, and little trees?"




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Old 01-03-2014, 07:21 AM   #88
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i've all ready talked to my ent, he said he charges half of what insurance pays him for cash.................like $100 to see him, which is nothing


but then go get 30 antibiotic pills for $425

and there is no personal relationship you can work things out with , the pharm company is well insulated from reality
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Old 01-03-2014, 07:24 AM   #89
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i've all ready talked to my ent, he said he charges half of what insurance pays him for cash.................like $100 to see him, which is nothing


but then go get 30 antibiotic pills for $425

and there is no personal relationship you can work things out with , the pharm company is well insulated from reality
yep, only insurance has a big enough customer base to have leverage

and guess who pays the least

medicare/medicaid
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Old 01-03-2014, 01:45 PM   #90
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And what are people like me supposed to do in the mean time? I have to pay more in drugs (insulin and other medical supplies) than any of my other bills. Wait it out? I will be blind and missing a few toes if not more by then. Insulin just went up to $200 a bottle, I need at least 2 a month. Test strips are worse. Then there are the quarterly doctors visits. All out of pocket. The only way my insurance would ever pay off is if I had an emergency in January of every year, then file bankruptcy since there is no way I could pay that bill.
Your employer already pays for these things and if they would like to continue they can. Nothing is free. What I'm proposing is a way to lower those costs.

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In your opinion, what should health insurance not cover? What would you consider "gas, repairs, and little trees?"
It shouldn't cover gp visits, prescriptions, and whatever else we tack onto it. Health insurance should be for emergencies such as the appendicitis we've been talking about, necessary surgery, hospital stays, etc. If insurance were to operate in this way, costs would go down and everyone could afford it. Many times, people who oppose my views like to point out that poor people don't have coverage and so they will die in the street if they have cancer. I certainly do not like this idea at all. My plan is to get them covered, but not by giving everyone else bad insurance to cover birth control for the poor. Prescription drugs and medicine in general is not expensive. It currently is because companies can charge any amount to the insurance companies. The company in turn raises their prices. When you take insurance out of drugs, the price goes down. Don't believe me? Go get a $25 walk in flu shot at a Walgreens clinic.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:26 PM   #91
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Your employer already pays for these things and if they would like to continue they can. Nothing is free. What I'm proposing is a way to lower those costs.



It shouldn't cover gp visits, prescriptions, and whatever else we tack onto it. Health insurance should be for emergencies such as the appendicitis we've been talking about, necessary surgery, hospital stays, etc. If insurance were to operate in this way, costs would go down and everyone could afford it. Many times, people who oppose my views like to point out that poor people don't have coverage and so they will die in the street if they have cancer. I certainly do not like this idea at all. My plan is to get them covered, but not by giving everyone else bad insurance to cover birth control for the poor. Prescription drugs and medicine in general is not expensive. It currently is because companies can charge any amount to the insurance companies. The company in turn raises their prices. When you take insurance out of drugs, the price goes down. Don't believe me? Go get a $25 walk in flu shot at a Walgreens clinic.
If people (americans) actually understood this and embraced it, they would all save a fortune. My wife had kidney work last may...insurance covered about $1500, we were responsible for $744. Called the medical office, told them I'll pay them right now in full, boom, 40% off. They just want to get paid and not spend the next 8 months fighting to get their money, dealing with collection agencies, etc. If people had $100 a month catastrophic insurance with 0 deductible (which only covers prescriptions which required the hospital visit like cancer meds) and had to pay for regular doctors visits, and regular prescriptions, patients would save a FORTUNE and doctors would make more money (and you would get far better service as well.)

As for the flu shot, they just built another walgreens by me, and they've been giving out free ones all winter long. Agree with the prescriptions....if Obama passed a law saying it was illegal for insurance companies to cover run-of-the-mill prescriptions, there would be no pill that costs more than 50 cents a piece.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:35 PM   #92
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If people (americans) actually understood this and embraced it, they would all save a fortune. My wife had kidney work last may...insurance covered about $1500, we were responsible for $744. Called the medical office, told them I'll pay them right now in full, boom, 40% off. They just want to get paid and not spend the next 8 months fighting to get their money, dealing with collection agencies, etc. If people had $100 a month catastrophic insurance with 0 deductible (which only covers prescriptions which required the hospital visit like cancer meds) and had to pay for regular doctors visits, and regular prescriptions, patients would save a FORTUNE and doctors would make more money (and you would get far better service as well.)

As for the flu shot, they just built another walgreens by me, and they've been giving out free ones all winter long. Agree with the prescriptions....if Obama passed a law saying it was illegal for insurance companies to cover run-of-the-mill prescriptions, there would be no pill that costs more than 50 cents a piece.
I can agree with some of this, in certain instances, but what about people with extremely high cost prescriptions? My one asthma med is $300/mo without insurance. People with diabetes and other constant maintenance illnesses would most likely NOT benefit from your model.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:38 PM   #93
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Re: where else can ya get a room for 2 hours for 7k?

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I can agree with some of this, in certain instances, but what about people with extremely high cost prescriptions? My one asthma med is $300/mo without insurance. People with diabetes and other constant maintenance illnesses would most likely NOT benefit from your model.
+1 which is a LOT of people. This also eliminates regular screening
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:40 PM   #94
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Re: where else can ya get a room for 2 hours for 7k?

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Your employer already pays for these things and if they would like to continue they can. Nothing is free. What I'm proposing is a way to lower those costs.



It shouldn't cover gp visits, prescriptions, and whatever else we tack onto it. Health insurance should be for emergencies such as the appendicitis we've been talking about, necessary surgery, hospital stays, etc. If insurance were to operate in this way, costs would go down and everyone could afford it. Many times, people who oppose my views like to point out that poor people don't have coverage and so they will die in the street if they have cancer. I certainly do not like this idea at all. My plan is to get them covered, but not by giving everyone else bad insurance to cover birth control for the poor. Prescription drugs and medicine in general is not expensive. It currently is because companies can charge any amount to the insurance companies. The company in turn raises their prices. When you take insurance out of drugs, the price goes down. Don't believe me? Go get a $25 walk in flu shot at a Walgreens clinic.
You have it backwards the insurance companies tell the practitioners and pharm companies what they will pay. It is a compromise between both parties but the pharm companies definitely do not get to charge whatever they want
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:48 PM   #95
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I can agree with some of this, in certain instances, but what about people with extremely high cost prescriptions? My one asthma med is $300/mo without insurance. People with diabetes and other constant maintenance illnesses would most likely NOT benefit from your model.
While I admit I haven't worked out the kinks in my scheme, my suspicion is that if insurance doesn't cover it and people had to pay for it themselves, the price would plummet (just like lasik). Your asthma meds would probably cost $30 if that if it wasn't covered. However, if we sit at the roundtable and debate this to pass this law, I would not be opposed to allow chronic condition meds (asthma, diabetes, etc) to be covered.

The point of my post wasn't to be super specific, but rather that I fully support the reform of our system, just the right way.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:52 PM   #96
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While I admit I haven't worked out the kinks in my scheme, my suspicion is that if insurance doesn't cover it and people had to pay for it themselves, the price would plummet (just like lasik). Your asthma meds would probably cost $30 if that if it wasn't covered. However, if we sit at the roundtable and debate this to pass this law, I would not be opposed to allow chronic condition meds (asthma, diabetes, etc) to be covered.

The point of my post wasn't to be super specific, but rather that I fully support the reform of our system, just the right way.
your argument doesn't work - lasik is a luxury good and asthma meds have become an essential good. therefore pharm companies can and will charge whatever they want to people buying essential goods/drugs who don't have buying power like insurance companies. the reason drugs are so cheap in europe/socialized med is because they leverage the buying power of their nation to set a price. the downside is that their formularies are more limited than ours because they determine what drugs to allow on the market.

the upside of our system is that we get more choice, downside is that we pay more

just busting your balls
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:02 PM   #97
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your argument doesn't work - lasik is a luxury good and asthma meds have become an essential good. therefore pharm companies can and will charge whatever they want to people buying essential goods/drugs who don't have buying power like insurance companies. the reason drugs are so cheap in europe/socialized med is because they leverage the buying power of their nation to set a price. the downside is that their formularies are more limited than ours because they determine what drugs to allow on the market.

the upside of our system is that we get more choice, downside is that we pay more

just busting your balls so take my commments with a grain of salt
I don't agree entirely. While yes, special cancer meds, asthma meds, asthma meds, HIV meds etc are extremely expensive, they are also a tiny portion of the prescription market. Those meds we can allow insurance companies to provide as well as insulin. Things like Viagra, antibiotics, etc are dirt cheap and are the meat of the market. In my opinion, if the pharm companies want to make money, they will have to do it by quantity. People are not going to pay crazy rates for pills so the price WILL come down. Again, it is a rough draft idea, and you would need a qualified panel to come up with what gets covered and what doesn't, but the overall idea is far more sound than the ACA, which covers everything but at an extremely high cost. As I posted earlier, my insurance for just my daughter and I is going from $400 to $900 a month. That's a $500 difference. That's $6000 a year. Do you know how many doctors visits and drugs I can buy with that 6k?


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Old 01-03-2014, 05:07 PM   #98
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It shouldn't cover gp visits, prescriptions, and whatever else we tack onto it. Health insurance should be for emergencies such as the appendicitis we've been talking about, necessary surgery, hospital stays, etc. If insurance were to operate in this way, costs would go down and everyone could afford it. Many times, people who oppose my views like to point out that poor people don't have coverage and so they will die in the street if they have cancer. I certainly do not like this idea at all. My plan is to get them covered, but not by giving everyone else bad insurance to cover birth control for the poor. Prescription drugs and medicine in general is not expensive. It currently is because companies can charge any amount to the insurance companies. The company in turn raises their prices. When you take insurance out of drugs, the price goes down. Don't believe me? Go get a $25 walk in flu shot at a Walgreens clinic.
I can agree in part with this, such as flu shots or heck, prescriptions for ibuprofen. However, as others have mentioned, how do you handle high prescriptions costs for certain meds, like diabetes or asthma meds?

example from evolved:

Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post
I can agree with some of this, in certain instances, but what about people with extremely high cost prescriptions? My one asthma med is $300/mo without insurance. People with diabetes and other constant maintenance illnesses would most likely NOT benefit from your model.
The issue with health care, in my opinion, there isn't a "one size fits all" solution. People's health varies - young and old - as does people's financial status.


Your answer is, as always, "promote competition to drive costs down". Ok, fine, but that doesn't change the fact that people's health vary as well as people's financial status. It may make things cheaper and ease the financial burden.

Also, as a tip Marshy, I recommend reading this book: Blue Ocean Strategy

http://www.blueoceanstrategy.com/

It discusses, in part, a theory how too much competition can make competition irrelevant.



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Old 01-03-2014, 05:53 PM   #99
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You have it backwards the insurance companies tell the practitioners and pharm companies what they will pay. It is a compromise between both parties but the pharm companies definitely do not get to charge whatever they want
Are you kidding? The drug market is not a free market it is a government sanctioned monopoly that's why medicine is expensive.

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I can agree in part with this, such as flu shots or heck, prescriptions for ibuprofen. However, as others have mentioned, how do you handle high prescriptions costs for certain meds, like diabetes or asthma meds?

example from evolved:


The issue with health care, in my opinion, there isn't a "one size fits all" solution. People's health varies - young and old - as does people's financial status.


Your answer is, as always, "promote competition to drive costs down". Ok, fine, but that doesn't change the fact that people's health vary as well as people's financial status. It may make things cheaper and ease the financial burden.

Also, as a tip Marshy, I recommend reading this book: Blue Ocean Strategy

http://www.blueoceanstrategy.com/

It discusses, in part, a theory how too much competition can make competition irrelevant.


I'm sorry but why is it everyone else's responsibility for someone's health issues? Obviously in a perfect world everyone will have access to great healthcare and medicine, but sadly that doesn't work because nothing is free. And if you look at all of the commercials on tv, it is easy to see that drug companies are competing heavily for your dollar. So diabetes medication, etc. will drop in price once the regulations are taken away and people have to pay out of pocket, the costs will drop dramatically. Otherwise, Pfizer, Merck, Wyeth, and all of the others could go out of business. Competition helps the consumers and hurts the business.

And thanks I'll look into that book.
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:10 PM   #100
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I'm sorry but why is it everyone else's responsibility for someone's health issues?
I'm sorry, where did I say that?
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