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Old 01-06-2014, 02:52 AM   #21
Davconelectric
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by zek926 View Post
Hi, Another TS3 owner here, I built and assembled my engine myself over a couple of months.

I went with a 0.0035 piston to wall clearance, The machine shop used a torque plate when boring and I asked them to match the pistons to indivudual bores. I used 8.8:1 compression pistons so don't have the spec sheet for you.

I also had them balance the entire rotating assembely crank, rods, pistons, clutch.

For ring gap I followed advice given by CP for forced induction engines:



The calcualtion for a supercharged engine with a 84.5 bore works out at 0.018".

When fitting the rings they should be rotated so that the gaps for each ring is aligned 180 degrees apart on the piston.

I went with raceware 10mm studs with no problems so far.

The engine has been running for around a year and it turned out great. If anything it is smoother than the original, and a recent leak down and compression test were well within spec.

If you need any other advice, Ill be happy to help. Ill be posting a build thread for my car shortly, it's a very custom ESS TS3 setup with Vipec V88 ECU, larger heat exhanger, 8 rib pulley conversion (so I can run +16psi without belt slip), full M3 running gear etc.

Good luck, if you need any more info ill be happy to help.
Hi Zek,

My machinist has now measured the pistons and says they are 84.0mm and not 84.5mm as the seller quoted they were. The stock cyl diameter Is 84.0mm but the block I'm using has already
Quote:
Originally Posted by zek926 View Post
Hi, Another TS3 owner here, I built and assembled my engine myself over a couple of months.

I went with a 0.0035 piston to wall clearance, The machine shop used a torque plate when boring and I asked them to match the pistons to indivudual bores. I used 8.8:1 compression pistons so don't have the spec sheet for you.

I also had them balance the entire rotating assembely crank, rods, pistons, clutch.

For ring gap I followed advice given by CP for forced induction engines:



The calcualtion for a supercharged engine with a 84.5 bore works out at 0.018".

When fitting the rings they should be rotated so that the gaps for each ring is aligned 180 degrees apart on the piston.

I went with raceware 10mm studs with no problems so far.

The engine has been running for around a year and it turned out great. If anything it is smoother than the original, and a recent leak down and compression test were well within spec.

If you need any other advice, Ill be happy to help. Ill be posting a build thread for my car shortly, it's a very custom ESS TS3 setup with Vipec V88 ECU, larger heat exhanger, 8 rib pulley conversion (so I can run +16psi without belt slip), full M3 running gear etc.

Good luck, if you need any more info ill be happy to help.
Hi Zek,

My machinist has now measured the pistons and says they are 84.0mm and not 84.5mm as the seller quoted they were. The stock cyl diameter is 84.0mm but the block I'm using has seen about 80000 miles so it will have some slight wear. I'm now concerned that I'm going to be unable to actually get the piston Clearance correct without having the block resleeved and machined to the correct size. What should I do? Should I just fit the pistons into the block and have done with it or will it be necessary o have it resleeved and machined to get the correct clearance?

Thanks

Alun
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:36 PM   #23
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Hi Alun,

I would have the machinist measure clearance first then if ok (not way out of what is suggested in the CP spec sheet) do a light hone of the bore to get rid of any glazing. I would then fit new rings and gap them to spec.

Hopefully others will chime in and help ( I have only built one engine)
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:54 PM   #24
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Hi Alun,

I would have the machinist measure clearance first then if ok (not way out of what is suggested in the CP spec sheet) do a light hone of the bore to get rid of any glazing. I would then fit new rings and gap them to spec.

Hopefully others will chime in and help ( I have only built one engine)
That sounds like a good plan. I have another technical question though? The block that I'm using was originally a 2.5l and now I'm putting the 3.0l crankshaft in, so Basically stroking the engine to give me a 3.0l. My concern is that the larger stroke of the 3.0l crankshaft will make the pistons travel further than they did originally with the 2.5 so I was concerned that there may be a lip in the cylinders. Will this be the case? How much do cylinders wear in comparison to piston rings? If there is a slight lip, as the engine had done about 80,000 miles what should I do? Am I able to use a honing tool to remove the lip?

Thanks guys
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Alun1976 View Post
That sounds like a good plan. I have another technical question though? The block that I'm using was originally a 2.5l and now I'm putting the 3.0l crankshaft in, so Basically stroking the engine to give me a 3.0l. My concern is that the larger stroke of the 3.0l crankshaft will make the pistons travel further than they did originally with the 2.5 so I was concerned that there may be a lip in the cylinders. Will this be the case? How much do cylinders wear in comparison to piston rings? If there is a slight lip, as the engine had done about 80,000 miles what should I do? Am I able to use a honing tool to remove the lip?

Thanks guys
if you put the m54b30 crankshaft, you also need the rods and pistons....


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Old 01-26-2014, 05:14 PM   #26
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if you put the m54b30 crankshaft, you also need the rods and pistons....


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I have the rods and the pistons thanks. What do I do with the possibility if there being a lip due to shorter stroke with the 2.5l?
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Old 01-26-2014, 08:49 PM   #27
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I have the rods and the pistons thanks. What do I do with the possibility if there being a lip due to shorter stroke with the 2.5l?
no lip....
the b25 and b30 use the SAME block and cylinder head.....


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Old 01-27-2014, 02:59 AM   #28
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no lip....
the b25 and b30 use the SAME block and cylinder head.....


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But doesn't the b30 have a longer stroke and therefore the existing b25 engine block that i have at the moment, that as seen 80000 miles on it will have a lip surely?

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Old 01-27-2014, 03:03 AM   #29
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When it comes down to it, the M54B30 is just a stroked M54B25, well actually the 2.5 is a de-stroked B30. Thus, piston travel, sidewall load, etc will all inevitably increase when you up your displacement 25 percent, but as the two engines are identicaluunder the skin, you will still be well within safe parameters. While I personally didn't want to lose my square setup with the B28, and went to considerable expense to do so, while also having reduction in component mass and increase in strength as very high priority goals, I would not be concerned about building up a 3.0L FI setup so long as the known weak links are dramatically improved.
In terms of weak links, it comes down to the oil pump/nut, harmonics issue which is directly related, and the VANOS.
Eliminating the aforementioned weaknesses is not a problem when you have everything torn apart, and would require a relatively small number of parts:
- VAC Engine Crank Damper Pulley (same as the ATI)
- VAC Oil Pump setup or a known good OPN strengthener (the former is a much better proposition in my opinion, as simply prevention of the OPN coming loose means that the weak point moves into the much more expensive and potentiallyccatastrophic oil pump)
- Beisan Systems VANOS overhaul
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:20 PM   #30
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we need to meet up alun when this is complete and do some runs :-) very very pleased to see a UK member pushing hard with FI.....
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Old 01-27-2014, 02:52 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by nleksan View Post
- VAC Engine Crank Damper Pulley (same as the ATI)
I think that's a S54 damper which won't fit a m54b30 crank (I think).
There is this topic:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=12108181
But that uses a custom made/adapted pulley/damper/bolt etc from ATI
Pretty nice though.

I once thought about trying to match up a damper/pulley from a s52 engine (us spec e36m3) to a m54 as they have more or less similar mounting systems (maybe minor machining necessary), but I'm totally not familiar with the s52 so that's a big gamble.
You know, to get a more interchangeble/swappable drive pully for the belts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alun1976 View Post
But doesn't the b30 have a longer stroke and therefore the existing b25 engine block that i have at the moment, that as seen 80000 miles on it will have a lip surely?
You mean a lip like a ridge that marks the top of the wear pattern of the pistonring stroke?
If there's a lip you should maybe hone the liners? (and maybe go overbore on pistons/rings). (feel the lip with your fingers and possibly inspect the liners with a knive edge ruler (ruler orientated top -bottom obviously )
If there's a lip, the honing marks are also damaged/perished i'd imagine.
Although a lip on the top of the liner maybe wouldn't be a problem (besides the possibility/fact that a lip indicates some wear to the liner and thus hone pattern)
But if there's a real ridge, maybe even a special reamer should be used. (but that's something you maybe want to leave to a specialist with a high performance engine like this )
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:40 PM   #32
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we need to meet up alun when this is complete and do some runs :-) very very pleased to see a UK member pushing hard with FI.....
Hey thanks Byron, it's probably going to be a slow process building this engine as I've never done one before but yes, we should meet up once it's done and we can do some runs. The block and piston kit is in the machine shop at the moment so things are starting to move forward at last. Didn't realise how much is involved in rebuilding an engine and everything needs to be precise.


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Old 02-09-2014, 04:47 PM   #33
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Another question for everyone. The machine shop have told me regardless of how many miles a set of piston rings have seen you should always replace them and deglaze the bores. Is this true, as the rings for the CP pistons I have have only seen 4k?


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Old 02-10-2014, 05:26 AM   #34
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Another question for everyone. The machine shop have told me regardless of how many miles a set of piston rings have seen you should always replace them and deglaze the bores. Is this true, as the rings for the CP pistons I have have only seen 4k?


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I'd say the machine shop is right, the rings need to seat to the cylinder wall and they will need gapping.
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:27 AM   #35
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alun what type of power are you hoping to squeeze out of this???
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:39 AM   #36
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I'd say the machine shop is right, the rings need to seat to the cylinder wall and they will need gapping.
remember, if you are gonna put new ring, need to do a "hard brake in"..... I did it twice in my rebuilt m54b30 motor, 0 issue....


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Old 02-10-2014, 08:09 AM   #37
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I'd say the machine shop is right, the rings need to seat to the cylinder wall and they will need gapping.
But wont they seat anyway having only done 4000 miles. Surely they wont have any significant wear and as long as the ring end gaps are right wont they be allright. If the block is deglazed then the rings would bed in again wouldnt they?
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:14 AM   #38
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alun what type of power are you hoping to squeeze out of this???
ESS quote 470HP (DIN - whatever that means) and 540Nm torque peaking at around 4.5K RPM.
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Old 02-10-2014, 08:15 AM   #39
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remember, if you are gonna put new ring, need to do a "hard brake in"..... I did it twice in my rebuilt m54b30 motor, 0 issue....


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"Hard Break In?" Please explain this for an amateur engine rebuilder like me.
Thanks
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:12 AM   #40
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please make a thread on z4-forum, in the uk proper builds are all to rare!!!! cant wait till this is done, we MUST meet up for some pics etc....

good look buddy!!!!

ive driven a ts3 e46 and let me tell you the TQ was insane!!! such a fun car to drive.
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