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Old 01-27-2014, 09:34 AM   #1
Cabrio330
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Are Liberals Less Likely to Understand Conservatives' Views?

For one explanation, read:

Why Won’t They Listen?
‘The Righteous Mind,’ by Jonathan Haidt

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/bo...aidt.html?_r=0

I especially like this part - shines some light on how the minds work, or don't work, with many of the more active liberal posters in PT:

Quote:
The hardest part, Haidt finds, is getting liberals to open their minds. Anecdotally, he reports that when he talks about authority, loyalty and sanctity, many people in the audience spurn these ideas as the seeds of racism, sexism and homophobia. And in a survey of 2,000 Americans, Haidt found that self-described liberals, especially those who called themselves “very liberal,” were worse at predicting the moral judgments of moderates and conservatives than moderates and conservatives were at predicting the moral judgments of liberals. Liberals don’t understand conservative values. And they can’t recognize this failing, because they’re so convinced of their rationality, open-mindedness and enlightenment.
Unfortunately I could not find a link to this article via Forbes so I had to use the liberal fishwrap NY Times. The usual suspects in here will have to work just a little bit harder to discredit the source, sorry guys.

Last edited by Cabrio330; 01-27-2014 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:47 AM   #2
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so liberals are "clueless" because they can't understand why conservatives values of hating gays, minorities, women, and poor people. maybe you can explain conservative hate?
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:52 AM   #3
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Wow, I didn't expect someone to prove the point so quickly. Thanks, bagher!
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:53 AM   #4
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notice how you can't answer my question
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:04 AM   #5
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Love how he reports "anecdotally".

Why do the self described conservatives not know what an actual source is? Weak commentary, non-peer reviewed, from an unprofessional source works provided it supports their ideas.

Your source is easy to discredit since it is more commentary. Nothing but anecdotal evidence. An article of confirmation bias for the author and its readers.

Perhaps you and Marshy can both benefit from a College 101 course.

Last edited by badfast; 01-27-2014 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:15 AM   #6
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Unfortunately you would be wrong, badfast. Haidt describes experiments he conducted in the book that empirically prove his point.

I really thought Liar and busa would be the first two to prove Haidt's theory. Surprised it was bagher and badfast. You guys are quick!
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:26 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cabrio330 View Post
Unfortunately you would be wrong, badfast. Haidt describes experiments he conducted in the book that empirically prove his point.

I really thought Liar and busa would be the first two to prove Haidt's theory. Surprised it was bagher and badfast. You guys are quick!
When someone reports their findings anecdotally I find it difficult to accept their outcomes without scrutiny. I am forced to maintain my current position that liberals and conservatives are equally clueless until something more credible proves otherwise. However, if anecdotes are the acceptable platform for discussions I would say conservatives are more clueless. I will use you, a sample size of 1, to justify my findings.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:34 AM   #8
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When someone reports their findings anecdotally I find it difficult to accept their outcomes without scrutiny. I am forced to maintain my current position that liberals and conservatives are equally clueless until something more credible proves otherwise. However, if anecdotes are the acceptable platform for discussions I would say conservatives are more clueless. I will use you, a sample size of 1, to justify my findings.
"Peer reviewed"




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Old 01-27-2014, 10:34 AM   #9
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anecdotal evidence and self-reported data. Highest on the pyramid of credibility.

But seriously, when you write a book titled "The Righteous Mind", you immediately make the assumption that the other side is "not righteous". Which is exactly the problem here. The "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality does not lead to progress, it leads to ideologues shouting at each other. We need people who are willing to come together for compromise, not people writing books about why the other side "doesn't get it"
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:35 AM   #10
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Another aspect of human nature that conservatives understand better than liberals, according to Haidt, is parochial altruism, the inclination to care more about members of your group - particularly those who have made sacrifices for it -than about outsiders. Saving Darfur, submitting to the United Nations and paying taxes to educate children in another state may be noble, but they aren't natural. What's natural is giving to your church, helping your P.T.A. and rallying together as Americans against a foreign threat.
Attempting to stop starvation and human cruelty in order to encourage stability and regional peace is not natural, but giving to church and PTA is. Who the fvck is this guy? I wonder if giving aid and assistance to Israel is not natural. They are not our people and don't go to the same church.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:36 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by badfast View Post
When someone reports their findings anecdotally I find it difficult to accept their outcomes without scrutiny. I am forced to maintain my current position that liberals and conservatives are equally clueless until something more credible proves otherwise. However, if anecdotes are the acceptable platform for discussions I would say conservatives are more clueless. I will use you, a sample size of 1, to justify my findings.
Wow, great retort. But seriously - plenty of cluelessness to go around, no doubt. I posted this up because I know from experience on here that it is 100% accurate in its application to many on here.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:37 AM   #12
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"Peer reviewed"




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Bam! MDydinanM is my peer and reviewed my statement. My study is more credible and less wordy.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:40 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
anecdotal evidence and self-reported data. Highest on the pyramid of credibility.

But seriously, when you write a book titled "The Righteous Mind", you immediately make the assumption that the other side is "not righteous". Which is exactly the problem here. The "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality does not lead to progress, it leads to ideologues shouting at each other. We need people who are willing to come together for compromise, not people writing books about why the other side "doesn't get it"
I am sure you haven't read his entire book in the few minutes this thread has existed, but if you did, you would see that it is very balanced. He points out problems on both sides. The title points to the perception on both sides that their side is righteous and the other isn't, regardless of left v. right.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabrio330 View Post
I am sure you haven't read his entire book in the few minutes this thread has existed, but if you did, you would see that it is very balanced. He points out problems on both sides. The title points to the perception on both sides that their side is righteous and the other isn't, regardless of left v. right.
author points out both sides can't understand each other, you post "liberals are so clueless". cite author as source proving your point.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:45 AM   #15
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Attempting to stop starvation and human cruelty in order to encourage stability and regional peace is not natural, but giving to church and PTA is. Who the fvck is this guy? I wonder if giving aid and assistance to Israel is not natural. They are not our people and don't go to the same church.
Wow, I am equally tickled and saddened that you cannot see how you are the poster child for the premise of the book. Keep digging...
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:48 AM   #16
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author points out both sides can't understand each other, you post "liberals are so clueless". cite author as source proving your point.
True confession - I knew this would be a bit of a grenade in the PT room, or at least my thread title would be. Just tossing one Liar and busa's way, all in good fun. Didn't anticipate the irony that would follow so quickly.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:51 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Cabrio330 View Post
I am sure you haven't read his entire book in the few minutes this thread has existed, but if you did, you would see that it is very balanced. He points out problems on both sides. The title points to the perception on both sides that their side is righteous and the other isn't, regardless of left v. right.
so you acknowledge that you're creating a thread with a link you've taken completely out of context?
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:52 AM   #18
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Wow, I am equally tickled and saddened that you cannot see how you are the poster child for the premise of the book. Keep digging...
If being clueless = lack of agreement, I am fine with being "clueless".

Like I said, both are equally clueless until definitive data can prove otherwise.

You failed to address my quotes, questions, and rebuttals. How would saving Darfur or providing humanitarian assistance not be natural? What is natural, and how does he define it? How do you define natural? With so many people and each with unique experiences natural becomes different to different people. Our attitudes about norms, beliefs, etc are social constructions from our environment.

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Old 01-27-2014, 10:54 AM   #19
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so you acknowledge that you're creating a thread with a link you've taken completely out of context?
glad he is posting by the rules:

"- No more sensationalized thread titles. Just copy and paste the title from where ever the content was originally from. If the source material itself has an outrageous title, then edit it or find another source for your intended discussion. Titles don't need added E46Fanatics flair to get more attention. "
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:59 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
so you acknowledge that you're creating a thread with a link you've taken completely out of context?
Not at all. Haidt has determined that liberals are less likely to understand conservatives' views than vice versa. My thread title at worst sensationalizes that very point, which I've admitted doing purposely. But it is hardly out of context.

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