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Old 02-06-2014, 02:56 PM   #61
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deaths gotta be easy cause life is hard
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:35 PM   #62
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I think the next phase will have limitless freedom of experience. For example, I could watch my childhood house being built, or see my parents when they were babies. I could have dinner with John Kennedy or with my 7th-great granddaughter. I could go to the earth's center without feeling hot. I could finally talk to my dog.
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That is, no matter how much energy you put into a piece of matter, it's not going to spontaneously turn into life. It makes me think about how we are all made from the same matter, just in a different form. We are literally made out of the same chemical compounds that make up rocks, trees, the ocean and the air we breathe. The matter gets recycled, there is no doubt about that.

So, if consciousnesses exist independently from our physical existence as we know it, who or what determines what matter belongs to which conscious entity? And where do they exist in the mean time?




check out this website.........this guy goes into a trance and receives 'messages' from a woman he has never seen and he does not know her name because it would be communicated in a manner he could not understand. He has received over 4000 pages of information that he is developing into a website.............pretty interesting

http://www.moeetheory.com/



QUOTE=cowmoo32;15988314]If reincarnation was a thing then why aren't they born with the knowledge they had when they died?

I was actually thinking about this last night because my friends and I have said that sleeping is as close to time travel as we'll get. But when I wake up I definitely know that some time has passed. My body clock keeps ticking

[/QUOTE]


Maybe we are in a certain sense. We inherit genes from our parents. I don't know if it is association and our environment or if heredity plays a part. But, sometimes we associate certain groups of people with specific qualities that the average person does not possess.

Every person inherits certain genes with our DNA. We are predisposed to certain diseases and traits as a result. Maybe it is possible that we retain certain attributes of our previous family members and on rare occasions they manifest from the deepest recesses of our mind to the forefront and we are able to remember being a pilot in WW2, a Confederate soldier in 1865 or we are able to write symphonies at age 9 like Mozart or publish mathematical theorems at age 10 like Pascal.

Maybe Reincarnation is a valid experience for some people.
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:45 PM   #63
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[/B]


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If reincarnation was a thing then why aren't they born with the knowledge they had when they died?

I was actually thinking about this last night because my friends and I have said that sleeping is as close to time travel as we'll get. But when I wake up I definitely know that some time has passed. My body clock keeps ticking

Maybe we are in a certain sense. We inherit genes from our parents. I don't know if it is association and our environment or if heredity plays a part. But, sometimes we associate certain groups of people with specific qualities that the average person does not possess.


Maybe Reincarnation is a valid experience for some people.
Read my previous post about my experience with reincarnation:
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Well that's the thing, just like a dream you don't remember everything that happened. My uncle owned a used car lot, he was shot and killed about 8 years ago. 5 years ago, we met a 3 year old kid who could name each person even though they had never met. The kid could also name makes and models of each car that was on the lot. The parents of the kid hadn't met the people either (they lived in Lebanon, and we're in the states)
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:50 PM   #64
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[QUOTE=cowmoo32;15987952]There's also the belief that the light/tunnel/sense of love is due to your brain pumping out endogenous dimethyltryptamine. Most of the general population has never experienced that before and their only answer is a religious experience. There's a researcher who has created what he calls the God Helmet[/URL] that uses transcranial magnetic stimulation (directed magnetic fields) to induce a current in specific parts of the brain that gives people near-death experiences on command. I subscribe to the idea that the brain is doing what it does best, attempting to make us as comfortable as possible at a time when it thinks it's game over.


You can manipulate people to do anything you want under the right circumstances. Research Devil's Breath or the Manchurian Candidate.

I don't doubt the professor did replicate a NDE experience. We can replicate the moon landing in a film studio, but we still landed on the Moon. How does the professor explain seeing deceased friends and relatives and receiving messages from the Dead during an NDE ? That can't be replicated in a contrived situation.



I'm the complete opposite; I'm insanely curious as to what it will be like. It's the single experience that I can't have during my lifetime and tell others about. If I had the opportunity to be put down and brought back in a medical environment I would absolutely do it.

if our definition of death is even close to correct.[/QUOTE]



Death is the beginning of life in a new dimension.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:19 PM   #65
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I don't believe consciousness exists independent of biology.

I think we are just intelligent enough that we start to believe in our own specialness, and we don't want to accept that we're just bags of mostly water and minerals, and when we die, we degrade back into the elements we're made from to begin with.

If we look at the entire spectrum of animals, I don't think any reasonable person would think that when a spider dies, it's consciousness is somehow transferred out of it's body and held in some holding tank somewhere, or transported into another spider or living being.

Self-awareness leads us to believe we're different from spiders, obviously. But where on the intelligence spectrum does durable, transportable consciousness start? Do dolphins, chimps, dogs, cephalopods have durable, extra-biologic consciousness?

If you back all the way out and look at the universe from the zillion-light-year level, does it really make sense that here on this tiny insignificant planet of ours, some tiny insignificant difference between animal species would make the difference between one species having a consciousness that outlasts the physical body, while all others don't?

I certainly don't have all the answers. But I intuitively shy away from any proposed answer that places human animals in some kind of special status independent of all other animals, because it immediately smacks of either A) wishful thinking, more saying what we want/hope to happen to make ourselves feel better instead of dealing with the truth, or B) the same kind of baseless, egocentric human-pedestal-placing thinking that leads to mythology/religion.
So how do we quantify consciousness and knowledge then? If you take the smartest and dumbest person in the world, is there any measurable difference in energy (as we know it) between them? What happens to someone's vast amount of knowledge and experiences when they die?

I do agree to an extent that being a sentient being shouldn't necessarily separate us from the rest of the animals - that relatively speaking we are ALL quite insignificant. I mean, we simply have a more developed brain structure, and self awareness is a term defined by humans to begin with. But then again we are the only creatures that we know of with this level of understanding.



I think many of the "near death" experiences can in fact be attributed to our brain's own coping method. It makes sense that there is more to it though. I think we just don't know it yet. Perhaps it falls within a different energy spectrum than the electromagnetic one. One day we will figure out how to measure it.



Then there's always the 'we're living in a giant simulation' concept. It actually makes a lot of sense, since our entire lives can be simplified to a basic input and output system much like a computer. But then the question arises, who constructed the simulation and where did they come from. It's beyond our understanding, which is based largely on physical experiences.
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:02 PM   #66
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So how do we quantify consciousness and knowledge then? If you take the smartest and dumbest person in the world, is there any measurable difference in energy (as we know it) between them? What happens to someone's vast amount of knowledge and experiences when they die?
evidence (weak as fMRI, etc is) points towards knowledge, experiences, memory being stored in structural network format. if that's the case, when you die that network goes bye bye and your knowledge and experience does too.

i also could care less about the simulation theory. who cares? just because it looks like it is a simulation (basic natural laws that we all follow) doesnt mean it is. the things that matter to us are what's around us, there may be something out there that's bigger than us, but why bother yourself with it when it doesn't impact your life anyways.
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:11 PM   #67
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I'm on my phone but chiming in briefly, saw a movie Enter The avoid (amazing on shrooms, so I hear), which got me interested in Buddhism and I bought the Tibetan Book of the Dead and read it in its entirety. death is great ai believe, its a passing, evolution, we are always advancing I imagine. I like to believe there is something more than this simple Earth to which most of us are born to a life of slavery (work all life, debt, etc) and there is something better out there
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:26 PM   #68
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good god, i hope i'm not born again. i lucked out this time.

interesting thread.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:46 PM   #69
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Well that's the thing, just like a dream you don't remember everything that happened. My uncle owned a used car lot, he was shot and killed about 8 years ago. 5 years ago, we met a 3 year old kid who could name each person even though they had never met. The kid could also name makes and models of each car that was on the lot. The parents of the kid hadn't met the people either (they lived in Lebanon, and we're in the states)
Shaban, are you religious?
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Europeans are stoopid. They keep splitting countries, while being jealous of our powa. Of course the EU is good for them, but does that have any real power?

Not even mentioning the efficiencies of larger countries.

As divided as this country is, at least we are one.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:59 PM   #70
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good god, i hope i'm not born again. i lucked out this time.

interesting thread.
I grew up in the church and around Christianity. Born again at 10 years old. The older folks in my family are highly religious. But left the church at 13 and never looked back. Too many hypocrites and not enough sense.
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Europeans are stoopid. They keep splitting countries, while being jealous of our powa. Of course the EU is good for them, but does that have any real power?

Not even mentioning the efficiencies of larger countries.

As divided as this country is, at least we are one.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:07 PM   #71
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evidence (weak as fMRI, etc is) points towards knowledge, experiences, memory being stored in structural network format. if that's the case, when you die that network goes bye bye and your knowledge and experience does too.
Yep, just confirmed a couple weeks ago too. http://www.sci-news.com/biology/scie...ain-01234.html

I'm still amazed at the out of body experiences by people during surgery. Multiple doctors and nurses have confirmed patients coming out of anesthesia and asking about something that happened during surgery that was out of their field of view. I'm too tired to look right now but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing one that was on video. The surgery was filmed and afterward the patient asked about something that was clearly out of their view but could be seen in the video.

edit: If you want to get really out there when talking about consciousness, read up on noetics and the global consciousness project. There is data that's absolutely amazing http://noosphere.princeton.edu/
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:12 PM   #72
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Thinking to much or to deep into this stuff can drive someone crazy. As much as I would love the answer to a lot of these questions, maybe it is a good thing we can't comprehend it. We come, we go. Make the best of it while you are here. It is all you can do.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:19 PM   #73
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I'm still amazed at the out of body experiences by people during surgery. Multiple doctors and nurses have confirmed patients coming out of anesthesia and asking about something that happened during surgery that was out of their field of view. I'm too tired to look right now but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing one that was on video. The surgery was filmed and afterward the patient asked about something that was clearly out of their view but could be seen in the video.
I'd be curious to watch the video if you get a chance to post it

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Thinking to much or to deep into this stuff can drive someone crazy. As much as I would love the answer to a lot of these questions, maybe it is a good thing we can't comprehend it. We come, we go. Make the best of it while you are here. It is all you can do.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:24 PM   #74
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Thinking to much or to deep into this stuff can drive someone crazy. As much as I would love the answer to a lot of these questions, maybe it is a good thing we can't comprehend it. We come, we go. Make the best of it while you are here. It is all you can do.
Not crazy, just agitated like anything else I think about too much but can't derive an answer in a reasonable amount of time.
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Europeans are stoopid. They keep splitting countries, while being jealous of our powa. Of course the EU is good for them, but does that have any real power?

Not even mentioning the efficiencies of larger countries.

As divided as this country is, at least we are one.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:38 PM   #75
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Not crazy, just agitated like anything else I think about too much but can't derive an answer in a reasonable amount of time.
Think about what people used to think the stars were. Or that the world was flat.

We're just living in a different era. We'll continue to learn more and more, and humans will look back on this time and laugh.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:43 PM   #76
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Not crazy, just agitated like anything else I think about too much but can't derive an answer in a reasonable amount of time.
Have fun....
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:45 PM   #77
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Have fun....
Going to have a beer.
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Europeans are stoopid. They keep splitting countries, while being jealous of our powa. Of course the EU is good for them, but does that have any real power?

Not even mentioning the efficiencies of larger countries.

As divided as this country is, at least we are one.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:48 PM   #78
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I've brought this up with a few friends who are doubling in math/physics and they hate the idea of orders of infinity, but it can't be denied. There's a good documentary called Dangerous Knowledge about mathematicians that killed themselves/went insane trying to grapple with the idea.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:56 PM   #79
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Shaban, are you religious?
Not at all. I believe what I can see, explain, etc. although, part of me thinks there is a god (or gods), but I don't know what it did or didn't do.


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Old 02-06-2014, 10:26 PM   #80
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Have fun....
Old news. Waiting on the other video!
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