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Old 02-06-2014, 06:43 PM   #21
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_County,_Georgia

Many of these cities were already established before the Great Depression.
Not sure if you were adding to my post or disputing what I said, so just know that I lived in the Milton area that became the new City of Milton for a period of 21 years and both of my kids graduated from Milton High School. I am pretty knowledgeable on what transpired and happy to discuss the changes in this area with you or anyone, but since the schools did not change it doesn't seem relevant to this thread.

Back to our regular programming. ..
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:43 PM   #22
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No, forcing people to live together who come from completely opposite ends of the socio-economic spectrum is what destroyed Detroit.


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Old 02-06-2014, 06:54 PM   #23
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Explain to me how does "White Flight" get started. Did every White person in Detroit wake up one day, and go "**** this I'm outta here" or was there an artificial transplant of people from some parts of town into others, which then led the white/affluent (because wealthy blacks "white flight" too) people to go "I am out."

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Old 02-06-2014, 06:57 PM   #24
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Explain to me how does "White Flight" get started. Did every White person in Detroit wake up one day, and go "**** this I'm outta here" or was there an artificial migration of people from some parts of town into others, which then led the white people to go "I am out."
I'm not saying he's completely right, but anyone who thinks that Detroit failed because of reason A or reason B is delusional. Your answer is nice and neat, but many, many things went wrong in Detroit. Where I live, people were made to live together. I took a bus every day to a school that's 15 minutes away when there was another that I could ride a bike to in 5 min. My city is doing well. So are many others. To point a finger at any one problem, especially minorities, is convenient, but inaccurate.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:10 PM   #25
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I'm not saying he's completely right, but anyone who thinks that Detroit failed because of reason A or reason B is delusional. Your answer is nice and neat, but many, many things went wrong in Detroit. Where I live, people were made to live together. I took a bus every day to a school that's 15 minutes away when there was another that I could ride a bike to in 5 min. My city is doing well. So are many others. To point a finger at any one problem, especially minorities, is convenient, but inaccurate.
The problem isn't minorities. The problem is having people of dramatically differing socio-economic statuses living within close proximity with one another.

Crime in parts of town that are "poorer" is almost always higher than the "affluent" parts of town. When these parts of town lie next to each other, the uptick in crime is tolerated for a while, and then people go "nope nope nope I am out of here."
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:14 PM   #26
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To point a finger at any one problem, especially minorities, is convenient, but inaccurate.
always the race card, don't you have a mighty shivan dragon in that deck?
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:16 PM   #27
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Example from my town:

Company just built 4 very expensive townhomes (garage + 3 stories), selling for $750k ocean view. We have a pretty large section 8 part of town. Since all the section 8 was grouped in one area of town (locals refer to it as browntown) the City decided to break it up throughout the city. Now, next to these brand new 750k townhomes is section 8 housing...like hanging out on the stoop all day section 8 housing.

Units sold? 0

Everyone loses, and not sure why anyone needs/deserves ocean front section 8 housing.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:33 PM   #28
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Explain to me how does "White Flight" get started. Did every White person in Detroit wake up one day, and go "**** this I'm outta here" or was there an artificial transplant of people from some parts of town into others, which then led the white/affluent (because wealthy blacks "white flight" too) people to go "I am out."
In the case of Detroit, White Flight started after the race riots in the 60s, poor political decisions and in turn businesses and wealth swelled the suburbs.






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Old 02-06-2014, 07:40 PM   #29
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It depends on how you define rich. The homeowners that want to break away and incorporate into a new municipality are mostly upper middle class. The rich send their kids to private school.

Although I think there is a very weak correlation between money spent and educational results (the bloated, vastly expensive public school systems like CPS, NYC DOE, DCPS have terrible records), it does foster a lot of class and racial resentment simply because of the way public schools are financed in the US.

The school I went to was considered one of, if not the best public high schools in Georgia. And it resided in a county that spent 9k per pupil, which was 5k less per pupil than Atlanta Public Schools, which is the worst performing public school system in Georgia. Money isn't the issue when it comes to academic achievement. At least, not once you cross a certain threshold.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:04 PM   #30
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It depends on how you define rich. The homeowners that want to break away and incorporate into a new municipality are mostly upper middle class. The rich send their kids to private school.

Although I think there is a very weak correlation between money spent and educational results (the bloated, vastly expensive public school systems like CPS, NYC DOE, DCPS have terrible records), it does foster a lot of class and racial resentment simply because of the way public schools are financed in the US.

The school I went to was considered one of, if not the best public high schools in Georgia. And it resided in a county that spent 9k per pupil, which was 5k less per pupil than Atlanta Public Schools, which is the worst performing public school system in Georgia. Money isn't the issue when it comes to academic achievement. At least, not once you cross a certain threshold.
Absolutely. Very well written.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:16 PM   #31
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It depends on how you define rich. The homeowners that want to break away and incorporate into a new municipality are mostly upper middle class. The rich send their kids to private school.

Although I think there is a very weak correlation between money spent and educational results (the bloated, vastly expensive public school systems like CPS, NYC DOE, DCPS have terrible records), it does foster a lot of class and racial resentment simply because of the way public schools are financed in the US.

The school I went to was considered one of, if not the best public high schools in Georgia. And it resided in a county that spent 9k per pupil, which was 5k less per pupil than Atlanta Public Schools, which is the worst performing public school system in Georgia. Money isn't the issue when it comes to academic achievement. At least, not once you cross a certain threshold.
You probably got free higher education too I presume since you resided in the state of Georgia and probably made good grades. If so, I envy you.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:55 PM   #32
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You probably got free higher education too I presume since you resided in the state of Georgia and probably made good grades. If so, I envy you.
Good grades in high school was not difficult.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:11 PM   #33
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Good grades in high school was not difficult.
I got them too...but in the state of VA, I paid for my entire college education. The state of Georgia and probably a few other states offer paid tuition if you maintain a certain grade level.

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Georgia's HOPE Scholarship Program Overview
Overview

Georgia's HOPE Scholarship is available to Georgia residents who have demonstrated academic achievement. The scholarship provides money to assist students with their educational costs of attending a HOPE-eligible college in Georgia.
Eligibility

To receive HOPE Scholarship funding, students must:
Meet one of the following academic requirements:
Graduate from a HOPE-eligible high school with a 3.0 grade point average. For more details, click here.
Complete a HOPE-eligible home study program with a 3.0 grade point average. For more details, click here.
Graduate from an ineligible high school, complete an ineligible home study program, or earn a GED and score in the national composite 85th percentile or higher on the SAT or ACT. For more details, click here.
Graduate from an ineligible high school or complete an ineligible home study program, and then earn a 3.0 grade point average on 30 semester hours or 45 quarter hours of college degree-level coursework. This option allows for payment of the first 30 semester hours or 45 quarter hours after they are taken. For more details, click here.
Earn a 3.0 grade point average at the college level on degree coursework after attempting 30, 60, or 90 semester hours or 45, 90, or 135 quarter hours, regardless of high school graduation status. For more details, click here.
Meet HOPE's U.S. citizenship or eligible non-citizen requirements.
Meet HOPE's Georgia residency requirements.
Be enrolled as a degree-seeking student at an eligible public or private college or university or technical college in Georgia. View a list of HOPE eligible colleges and universities PDF - icon.
Be in compliance with Selective Service registration requirements.
Maintain satisfactory academic progress as defined by the college.
Not be in default or owe a refund on a student financial aid program.
Be in compliance with the Georgia Drug-Free Postsecondary Education Act of 1990. A student may be ineligible for HOPE payment if he or she has been convicted for committing certain felony offenses involving marijuana, controlled substances, or dangerous drugs.
Meet additional rigor requirements, beginning with students graduating from high school on or after May 1, 2015. For more details, click here.
Award Amounts

The HOPE Scholarship award varies and depends on the type of institution you are attending and your specific hours of enrollment. To determine your HOPE award amount, review the chart found here.
https://secure.gacollege411.org/Fina..._Overview.aspx
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:28 PM   #34
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You probably got free higher education too I presume since you resided in the state of Georgia and probably made good grades. If so, I envy you.
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I got them too...but in the state of VA, I paid for my entire college education. The state of Georgia and probably a few other states offer paid tuition if you maintain a certain grade level.



https://secure.gacollege411.org/Fina..._Overview.aspx
With 4 year tuition lock at in-state rates, it didn't amount to as much as you'd think. It was 2.3k per semester for tuition+book allowance. Non tuition expenses ran at about double that amount.

Then again, I didn't pay for college at all. Have my parents to thank for that!
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:36 PM   #35
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No, forcing people to live together who come from completely opposite ends of the socio-economic spectrum is what destroyed Detroit.

You are clueless. You don't really understand the situation. I have relatives who were there up til a few years ago, then they retired to florida. I have talked to people who actually lived there since the 60's, when Detroit was booming. The issue, much like LA in some areas, is that HS equiv jobs left and never returned.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:46 PM   #36
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You are clueless. You don't really understand the situation. I have relatives who were there up til a few years ago, then they retired to florida. I have talked to people who actually lived there since the 60's, when Detroit was booming. The issue, much like LA in some areas, is that HS equiv jobs left and never returned.
Oh, well, if that's the only problem, then bring back the HS equivalent jobs and Detroit's problems go away.

Let me just go pick up jobs off the job tree. You make sure and let the Motor City know the good days are back.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:53 PM   #37
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You are clueless. You don't really understand the situation. I have relatives who were there up til a few years ago, then they retired to florida. I have talked to people who actually lived there since the 60's, when Detroit was booming. The issue, much like LA in some areas, is that HS equiv jobs left and never returned.
The fact is, cities can manage their decline. Detroit didn't. And it's paying the price of decades of mismanagement. The tax base kept shrinking as whites fled the city while pension costs kept increasing. The physical size of the city stayed the same, which is why you have rows and rows of abandoned, ramshackle houses.

All of that made it impossible for the local government to effectively administer the entire city, which prompted even more people to leave. Decline, if not managed properly, can become a vicious cycle.

It takes forceful, competent, and non-corrupt politicians to effectively run a major city. A union town with decades of one party rule makes it impossible for the good candidates to prevail over bad ones.
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:17 AM   #38
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The fact is, cities can manage their decline. Detroit didn't. And it's paying the price of decades of mismanagement. The tax base kept shrinking as whites fled the city while pension costs kept increasing. The physical size of the city stayed the same, which is why you have rows and rows of abandoned, ramshackle houses.

All of that made it impossible for the local government to effectively administer the entire city, which prompted even more people to leave. Decline, if not managed properly, can become a vicious cycle.

It takes forceful, competent, and non-corrupt politicians to effectively run a major city. A union town with decades of one party rule makes it impossible for the good candidates to prevail over bad ones.
You both are right. What people see are the jobs leaving, what people don't see is the miss management by terrible politicians causing the jobs to leave.

It's a catch 22, as each person in the south leaves an area it hurts the poor who cannot leave and even worsens the already dire situation. But at the same time who wants to live among crime and degenerates?


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Old 02-07-2014, 11:20 AM   #39
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Great idea. They should put it next to the jesus freak town that the pizza guy wants to build.
maybe the dude in the midwest can build his "whites only" town down the road
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:20 AM   #40
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But at the same time who wants to live among crime and degenerates?
But the wealthy have a DUTY to live in shithole areas to help the poor. Don't they?
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