E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-09-2014, 10:44 AM   #21
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
All teachers I know are massively underpaid and underappreciated. Not to mention you can only teach in your state, which makes job opportunities locally oversaturated to begin with. Couple that with poor school funding (see: government sucks with money), and you've got a really, really terrible job system for something so incredibly necessary for the future.

The fact that we treat school so leniently and nonchalantly and not as serious as it really needs to be is mind-boggling to me.
I'd rather have my taxes invested in education, infrastructure, and technology than defense and aid, but that's my opinion.
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 10:47 AM   #22
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,635
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
I agree, I think we need to invest in better education. I think it is sad that "skipping school" is not a big deal because of how little you miss by doing so. We spend too long in it, and we obviously take way too long to teach people stuff properly. Look at the government mandated exams I think all public schools have to take. People are doing bad in the math section. Their solution? Let's consider taking it out. See no evil, hear no evil.

I mean think about teaching math every year. Remember how you'd start off every class with going back about 3/4 of the way from what you learned last year, then learning another new 1/4? You never even get to the end of the book. The continuation is ludicrous and laps over way too much.

I remember looking ahead in my math book in 7th grade. If we followed logically, I could've been learning about finding the area under a curve. But we never got there. We finally got into that in high school. Crazy right?
__________________

Last edited by Zell; 02-09-2014 at 10:51 AM.
Zell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 10:52 AM   #23
Marshmallow
Yacht Club Libertarian
 
Marshmallow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Joisey, Mid MI
Posts: 1,996
My Ride: E46, E30, Quattro
I think I should start pulling up my former teacher's salaries again. Like my former gym teacher that makes $75k for 9.5 months of work a year($95k adjusted), or my former English teacher who makes $94k a year($118k adjusted). They also make extra for their summer work. Not saying they don't deserve it, but they certainly aren't overpaid.
__________________


2003 BMW 325xiT "Audrey"
1987 BMW 325i "Lydia"
1990 Audi 90 Quattro Sport 20v "Chloe"

Marshmallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 11:05 AM   #24
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,635
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
One person managing anywhere from 40-100 kids isn't easy by any means. You're responsible for making fair tests, teaching them all so that the most kids can learn effectively, accommodating for special needs, and reviewing every single thing that each one of them spent countless hours completing. To be able to give each one of them a fair amount of personal detail in their work is exhausting, and every last kid is expecting that.
__________________

Last edited by Zell; 02-09-2014 at 11:05 AM.
Zell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 11:18 AM   #25
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
All teachers I know are massively underpaid and underappreciated. Not to mention you can only teach in your state, which makes job opportunities locally oversaturated to begin with. Couple that with poor school funding (see: government sucks with money), and you've got a really, really terrible job system for something so incredibly necessary for the future.

The fact that we treat school so leniently and nonchalantly and not as serious as it really needs to be is mind-boggling to me.
They are underpaid and IMHO, they are spineless and deserve to be underpaid. Want more money? Stop being a member of the teachers union so that the lazy pedophile of a teacher next to you can get 10K a year and you can get 100K, rather than you both getting 55K. One of my ex girlfriends was a teacher in a sh!tty public highschool in Brooklyn. She did ok, but my other friend that taught private school in LI did much better. No union, more freedom, and a better environment. They want unions to hold the kids hostage? They can all suffer together.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 11:21 AM   #26
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
One person managing anywhere from 40-100 kids isn't easy by any means. You're responsible for making fair tests, teaching them all so that the most kids can learn effectively, accommodating for special needs, and reviewing every single thing that each one of them spent countless hours completing. To be able to give each one of them a fair amount of personal detail in their work is exhausting, and every last kid is expecting that.
No one said it's easy, and many MANY teachers deserve a lot more than they get. Having said that, many deserve nothing, and the fact that those who deserve money support the unions (working for them is supporting in my eyes) forfeit their right to complain, since the idiot teacher next to them is stealing their extra pay which they deserve. The US has the highest per student spending in the world, not to mention, public schools have surpassed private schools in per student spending.
__________________

Last edited by NFRs2000nyc; 02-09-2014 at 11:22 AM.
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 11:23 AM   #27
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
I'd rather have my taxes invested in education, infrastructure, and technology than defense and aid, but that's my opinion.
we spend a shockingly amount of money on education, with diminished returns.



Money don't fix culture
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 11:40 AM   #28
Marshmallow
Yacht Club Libertarian
 
Marshmallow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Joisey, Mid MI
Posts: 1,996
My Ride: E46, E30, Quattro
If only there were an alternative to the failing public schools. Perhaps...private schools?
__________________


2003 BMW 325xiT "Audrey"
1987 BMW 325i "Lydia"
1990 Audi 90 Quattro Sport 20v "Chloe"

Marshmallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 11:46 AM   #29
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow View Post
If only there were an alternative to the failing public schools. Perhaps...private schools?
Its funny, in NJ, you pay either way....if you want decent public schools, you need to get raped with property taxes. If you move to an area with "reasonable" taxes, the schools suck, and you'll need to send your kids to private schools. Going back to the "white flight" thread, thats why public schools generally suck...upper middle class+ people send their kids to private schools....including the politicians that try to "help" the public schools. The head of the largest teachers union in NJ went to private school and sends his kids to one.
__________________

Last edited by NFRs2000nyc; 02-09-2014 at 11:46 AM.
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:04 PM   #30
Marshmallow
Yacht Club Libertarian
 
Marshmallow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Joisey, Mid MI
Posts: 1,996
My Ride: E46, E30, Quattro
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Its funny, in NJ, you pay either way....if you want decent public schools, you need to get raped with property taxes. If you move to an area with "reasonable" taxes, the schools suck, and you'll need to send your kids to private schools. Going back to the "white flight" thread, thats why public schools generally suck...upper middle class+ people send their kids to private schools....including the politicians that try to "help" the public schools. The head of the largest teachers union in NJ went to private school and sends his kids to one.
Interesting you should bring this up because my parents sent me to private school in the beginning and then switched to public but only because we live in a good district and a private education would have meant at least triple the cost of education. I forget what ranking it got in a recent poll but it is by far the best in our general area. And I think you get raped on taxes no matter where you are in NJ. Even if it's low, it's high.
__________________


2003 BMW 325xiT "Audrey"
1987 BMW 325i "Lydia"
1990 Audi 90 Quattro Sport 20v "Chloe"

Marshmallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:19 PM   #31
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow View Post
If only there were an alternative to the failing public schools. Perhaps...private schools?
So, by your model, create a lot of private schools to drive costs down in a school district - that's a lot of real estate to take over and zoning to do.

What about low income families that can't afford private school, what would be their alternative? State subsidies for low income families sending their kids to private schools?

Last edited by MDydinanM; 02-09-2014 at 12:22 PM.
MDydinanM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:22 PM   #32
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 334
My Ride: 3.5 Liters of fury
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
So, by your model, create a lot of private schools to drive costs down in a school district - that's a lot of real estate to take over and zoning to do.

What about low income families that can't afford private school, what would be their alternative? State subsidies for low income families sending their kids to private schools?
do better in school, get better jobs
__________________
Gold Medal Recipient: Jimmy Rustling (2014)

“They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet.” - Saul Alinsky, quoting Lenin
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:24 PM   #33
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
do better in school, get better jobs
oh I agree, but that wasn't his point now was it?
MDydinanM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:25 PM   #34
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Do away with teacher unions...
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:28 PM   #35
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 754
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
Do away with teacher unions...
Yes, and no. Depends on where you are.

And here's why, again w/ the Baltimore example, school administrators, from my wife's experience, throw teachers under the bus, and there are a whole myriad of other issues where a union protects teachers from unfair, sometimes unethical issues. That, and if something happens, a Union provides legal assistance. Believe me, for inner city kids, you want a Union there.

Funny how people think the answer to everything is "do away with Unions" but forget why they are there in the first place, and that in certain instances, are very necessary.

In my opinion, it should be on a case by case basis.

Last edited by MDydinanM; 02-09-2014 at 12:30 PM.
MDydinanM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:33 PM   #36
Marshmallow
Yacht Club Libertarian
 
Marshmallow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Joisey, Mid MI
Posts: 1,996
My Ride: E46, E30, Quattro
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
So, by your model, create a lot of private schools to drive costs down in a school district - that's a lot of real estate to take over and zoning to do.

What about low income families that can't afford private school, what would be their alternative? State subsidies for low income families sending their kids to private schools?
You don't create private schools. The market creates them. Stop the government monopoly on schools, get rid of the teacher's union, and allow voucher programs. This will create competition that will increase the quality of public schools for those who can't afford private schools. For those that can, the money will follow them to the school and the parents pick up the rest. I know I would've continued at private schools if the tax money would not have been lost as a result of leaving the public school system. The thing you fail to see is that I propose solutions for the poor. I'm not going to leave them to die in the streets like you think.
__________________


2003 BMW 325xiT "Audrey"
1987 BMW 325i "Lydia"
1990 Audi 90 Quattro Sport 20v "Chloe"

Marshmallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:37 PM   #37
Marshmallow
Yacht Club Libertarian
 
Marshmallow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Joisey, Mid MI
Posts: 1,996
My Ride: E46, E30, Quattro
Thank goodness for those unions standing up for teachers against those bullying administrators!

http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/danie...ester-n1761847
__________________


2003 BMW 325xiT "Audrey"
1987 BMW 325i "Lydia"
1990 Audi 90 Quattro Sport 20v "Chloe"

Marshmallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:37 PM   #38
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDydinanM View Post
Yes, and no. Depends on where you are.

And here's why, again w/ the Baltimore example, school administrators, from my wife's experience, throw teachers under the bus, and there are a whole myriad of other issues where a union protects teachers from unfair, sometimes unethical issues. That, and if something happens, a Union provides legal assistance. Believe me, for inner city kids, you want a Union there.

Funny how people think the answer to everything is "do away with Unions" but forget why they are there in the first place, and that in certain instances, are very necessary.

In my opinion, it should be on a case by case basis.
Any examples of teachers getting thrown under the bus or is this just hearsay?
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:39 PM   #39
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northern Korea
Posts: 505
My Ride: A Car
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
There's negatives to any job. Life isn't fair and dandy. However why aren't we paying teachers individually based on their performance? This would solve a lot of controversy and silence the banner wavers of 'underpaid and over utilized'.

People go into these jobs knowing what the daily work is like as well as the compensation. You can't tell me they don't know any better. It's a personal decision that should merit responsibility and being accountable for ones decisions. I've always been one that believes people are fully in charge and capable of decisions that effect them. The easy way out is complaining. The logical solution is to continue to perform, identify issues, build a case, gather support, and put more pressure on unions, administrators, and politicians to correct them in a manner that benefits all parties.
Yes there are negatives to every job. The negative in your being sometimes you miss happy hour. The negatives for an inner city teacher deal with broken homes here young students live in and must try and forget while at school. Learning becomes difficult when the home doesnt encourage it. And yet you want to penalize these teachers for the broken situations their students live in. Be that the case and no one would want to teach at these schools.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 12:50 PM   #40
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,890
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
Yes there are negatives to every job. The negative in your being sometimes you miss happy hour. The negatives for an inner city teacher deal with broken homes here young students live in and must try and forget while at school. Learning becomes difficult when the home doesnt encourage it. And yet you want to penalize these teachers for the broken situations their students live in. Be that the case and no one would want to teach at these schools.
Can't remember the last time I went to happy hour. Probably college. I don't leave work until close to 8pm most days.

Who said I was penalizing teachers? I'm merely investigating and searching for solutions. Higher salaries won't do jack if the problem is with administrators and students themselves. You guys are saying it yourselves and yet you believe somehow dumping more money into the laps of teachers will solve our teaching problems?
__________________
"Economics cannot answer such normative or prescriptive questions about how much of our market incomes, if any, should be transferred to poor families. This is a political question that can only be answered at the ballot box, or in some countries, at the point of a gun."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use