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Old 02-09-2014, 02:01 PM   #41
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Can't remember the last time I went to happy hour. Probably college. I don't leave work until close to 8pm most days.

Who said I was penalizing teachers? I'm merely investigating and searching for solutions. Higher salaries won't do jack if the problem is with administrators and students themselves. You guys are saying it yourselves and yet you believe somehow dumping more money into the laps of teachers will solve our teaching problems?
I have yet to call for an increase in pay. I also didn't say they need to be paid less. I am just saying trying to link salary and performance without considering all the variables at play is a huge disservice.

If dumping money at the situation won't fix the problem, how do you suppose that shrinking the budget will?
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:01 PM   #42
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You guys are saying it yourselves and yet you believe somehow dumping more money into the laps of teachers will solve our teaching problems?
Wow Keynesian economics is like a disease.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:03 PM   #43
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Any examples of teachers getting thrown under the bus or is this just hearsay?
Come to where I live. Ill give you an example by introducing you to people who have had first hand accounts.

You know, "real people" that are "ordinary folks"





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Old 02-09-2014, 02:04 PM   #44
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Wow Keynesian economics is like a disease.
Keynesian economics. Did you just learn that term this semester?




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Old 02-09-2014, 02:06 PM   #45
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Thank goodness for those unions standing up for teachers against those bullying administrators!

http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/danie...ester-n1761847
Says the spoon fed brat that never has worked a real job and has never had to deal with office politics.


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Old 02-09-2014, 02:07 PM   #46
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So, by your model, create a lot of private schools to drive costs down in a school district - that's a lot of real estate to take over and zoning to do.

What about low income families that can't afford private school, what would be their alternative? State subsidies for low income families sending their kids to private schools?
Outlaw public sector unions and create a voucher system. Sh!t schools will close quickly, and sh!t teachers will be on the unemployment line. Instill a military style firing system (honorable/dishonorable firing) so that a sh!t teacher won't be able to get a job in a remote village in Alaska.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:09 PM   #47
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Yes, and no. Depends on where you are.

And here's why, again w/ the Baltimore example, school administrators, from my wife's experience, throw teachers under the bus, and there are a whole myriad of other issues where a union protects teachers from unfair, sometimes unethical issues. That, and if something happens, a Union provides legal assistance. Believe me, for inner city kids, you want a Union there.

Funny how people think the answer to everything is "do away with Unions" but forget why they are there in the first place, and that in certain instances, are very necessary.

In my opinion, it should be on a case by case basis.
If the school is mistreating the teachers, the teachers can find a job in a school where this is not a problem. You act like schools are different than any other type of business (employee/employer.) If you were mistreated at your job, you'd tell them to pound sand and f*** off somewhere else.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:09 PM   #48
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I have yet to call for an increase in pay. I also didn't say they need to be paid less. I am just saying trying to link salary and performance without considering all the variables at play is a huge disservice.

If dumping money at the situation won't fix the problem, how do you suppose that shrinking the budget will?
2 things:

1. I don't think evaluating teachers just on testing scores is fair. There are many factors that contribute to a kid failing. To put it solely on the teacher is just not right. HOWEVER, every teacher and admin in the school knows which teachers are good, which are bad, which teachers work hard and which teachers are slackers. The best evaluations should come from the school, not test scores or outside admins.

2. Money won't fix the problem, we already know that. However, the popular meme is that teachers are underpaid and it simply is not the case anymore (Especially considering pensions and benefits added to the salary). You say that taking money won't help things, so are you saying that once we put X amount of dollars towards something it can NEVER be reduced?

crazy pills!
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:09 PM   #49
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:14 PM   #50
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Yes there are negatives to every job. The negative in your being sometimes you miss happy hour. The negatives for an inner city teacher deal with broken homes here young students live in and must try and forget while at school. Learning becomes difficult when the home doesnt encourage it. And yet you want to penalize these teachers for the broken situations their students live in. Be that the case and no one would want to teach at these schools.
I guess you are talking about the "Dangerous Minds" scenario. The ex girlfriend I was talking about earlier taught at that crappy brooklyn school because she wanted to help the less privileged, and didn't want to teach the self important rich kids. Similarly, there are doctors that want to work in inner city clinics rather than some rich area. There are always people that want the "challenge." Also, what about the kids (whatever the percentage is) that have no choice but to go to that school because they are zoned for it? Why can't the parents of those kids that want their kids to get a good education be allowed to send them to another school? A better school. The money needs to be attached to the child, not to the school if you want a thriving public school system. Schools that hire the best teachers and do the best jobs will have a massive enrollment rate, and schools that do the opposite will have no money, sh!t teachers, and eventually, close. Im all for great public schools, ESPECIALLY in lower income areas, unfortunately, the formula used today doesn't work at all. Child spending is at an all time high and education results are at an all time low. Something is wrong. Oh, and Im all for good teachers making a boatload of money. I don't care if a public school teacher makes 250K a year with 3 months vacation. I understand the importance of good teachers. However, I don't want ALL teachers making good money because not all teachers are good. They need to be filtered out.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:19 PM   #51
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Come to where I live. Ill give you an example by introducing you to people who have had first hand accounts.

You know, "real people" that are "ordinary folks"





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Top public schools in NYC are charter schools....(Bronx Science, Stuyvesant, etc.) Coincidence?

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Old 02-09-2014, 02:22 PM   #52
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Im not a big Christie fan, but this is spot on.

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Old 02-09-2014, 02:24 PM   #53
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Come to where I live. Ill give you an example by introducing you to people who have had first hand accounts.

You know, "real people" that are "ordinary folks"





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Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. You tell me the stories about these mistreated teachers and how it means that every school is bad. Then I will tell you stories of how old people at the yacht club think American culture is crap and it represents everyone.

Also, how the hell does this relate to a rapist being protected by the union? Let me guess, "The pressure of his inner city teaching job caused him to buttfvck a 10 year old! It's not his fault!"

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Says the spoon fed brat that never has worked a real job and has never had to deal with office politics.


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What does that have to do with anything? You act like I've never interacted with anyone before.

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Old 02-09-2014, 02:35 PM   #54
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This is another fantastic vid on the subject.

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Old 02-09-2014, 02:37 PM   #55
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If the school is mistreating the teachers, the teachers can find a job in a school where this is not a problem. You act like schools are different than any other type of business (employee/employer.) If you were mistreated at your job, you'd tell them to pound sand and f*** off somewhere else.

Oh I see, the old argument, don't like your job, then quit. Kind of hard when the economy is bad, barely anyone is hiring, and teachers are staying put making it so there are no openings.


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Old 02-09-2014, 02:42 PM   #56
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2 things:

1. I don't think evaluating teachers just on testing scores is fair. There are many factors that contribute to a kid failing. To put it solely on the teacher is just not right. HOWEVER, every teacher and admin in the school knows which teachers are good, which are bad, which teachers work hard and which teachers are slackers. The best evaluations should come from the school, not test scores or outside admins.

2. Money won't fix the problem, we already know that. However, the popular meme is that teachers are underpaid and it simply is not the case anymore (Especially considering pensions and benefits added to the salary). You say that taking money won't help things, so are you saying that once we put X amount of dollars towards something it can NEVER be reduced?

crazy pills!
To compare your test score example.....I agree, test scores are not a good indicator. However, like all jobs, the admins/bosses/managers etc know who is good and who is not. Judging teachers based on test scores would be like judging a lawyer on how many cases he lost.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:42 PM   #57
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Oh I see, the old argument, don't like your job, then quit. Kind of hard when the economy is bad, barely anyone is hiring, and teachers are staying put making it so there are no openings.


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This is definitely a credible argument for unions. By this logic, we should unionize every industry because the bad economy affects everyone, not just teachers. Does anyone else support an telemarketer's union? Or how about a middle manager's union?! Or maybe even a prostitute's union?!
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:45 PM   #58
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Oh I see, the old argument, don't like your job, then quit. Kind of hard when the economy is bad, barely anyone is hiring, and teachers are staying put making it so there are no openings.


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I love how you ignored the other posts reinforcing my point. And yes, if things are SO bad that you can't take it, S.T.F.U and leave....OR, if things are so bad on the outside, S.T.F.U and thank god (or yoda) that you have a job and do it to the best of your ability. Why do you think teachers are immune from workplace headaches? Do you have any idea how much sh!t I've had to eat over the years from employees, got screwed out of an already booked vacation, fvcked with my schedule, managers, owners, customers, etc etc etc? Do you know how many times I've been mistreated, didn't get my raise that I should have, been shorted on my bonus, etc etc etc? Such is life. No workplace is perfect, headaches are everywhere, deal with it. Don't like it? There is only one solution....be your own boss. Open your own restaurant, law practice, school, etc etc. Tired of people complaining that things are a little rough at work....guess what....things are rough for everyone.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:52 PM   #59
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This is definitely a credible argument for unions. By this logic, we should unionize every industry because the bad economy affects everyone, not just teachers. Does anyone else support an telemarketer's union? Or how about a middle manager's union?! Or maybe even a prostitute's union?!
Workers have the right to collectively bargain. Check the USSC rulings.

I am against having a mandate that an employer can ONLY hire union workers. However, if the union can put any entity, commercial or civil, into a position where they agree by contract to do so, more power to them. Or if they can cause a disruption in that "business" by strike and that makes the "business" entity cave to union demands at the negotiation table. Again, more power to them. If the union can drive the "business" out of business more power to them. If the business can "break" the union by not being mandated to hire only union labor, more power to them.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:57 PM   #60
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Workers have the right to collectively bargain. Check the USSC rulings.

I am against having a mandate that an employer can ONLY hire union workers. However, if the union can put any entity, commercial or civil, into a position where they agree by contract to do so, more power to them. Or if they can cause a disruption in that "business" by strike and that makes the "business" entity cave to union demands at the negotiation table. Again, more power to them. If the union can drive the "business" out of business more power to them. If the business can "break" the union by not being mandated to hire only union labor, more power to them.
I have no problem with unions. I do, however, have a problem with government giving unions special privileges and implementing special regulations that effectively force people to be in unions.

So it appears we agree.
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