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Old 02-15-2014, 10:30 AM   #61
Marshmallow
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Wat? I'm just asking where the all-powerful free market was when those things were going on. Why has the free market just come around now to decide that discrimination is a bad thing? Why wasn't it figuring this out twenty, thirty, a hundred years ago?

I'm still wondering where you're getting the idea that I want more laws from. Can you answer that one?


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How would the free market end discrimination if the government is protecting it? And I thought you were getting at more laws so chill with your question.

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Did the free market put an end to slavery in the US? Nope.
So the free market now has power over government laws? This is news to me.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:41 AM   #62
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So the free market now has power over government laws? This is news to me.
What the F are you talking about? I just think it's absurd you think that the "free market," alone, will solve slavery and discrimination.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:44 AM   #63
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What the F are you talking about? I just think it's absurd you think that the "free market," alone, will solve slavery and discrimination.
I don't think anything will solve anything that has been around since humans could walk upright.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:46 AM   #64
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So the free market now has power over government laws? This is news to me.

Head to CO and smoke a joint. While you mellow out ask yourself that question again.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:49 AM   #65
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What the F are you talking about? I just think it's absurd you think that the "free market," alone, will solve slavery and discrimination.
I never brought up this idea. Nova did and you ran with it. The free market cannot fix a broken government. But discrimination, however, is fixable in the free market.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:03 AM   #66
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I never brought up this idea. Nova did and you ran with it. The free market cannot fix a broken government. But discrimination, however, is fixable in the free market.
I disagree with you there, and agree with AOG...discrimination is part of life...EVERYWHERE. It is normal, and there is no point in fighting it. The only thing you can do is push it "underground" and when it pops up, people are ZOMG up in arms about it. As AOG said, discrimination has been around since Moses wore short pants, and it ain't going anywhere....and that's fine. Racism and discrimination unites a group, and gives them more power. However, that is only for the private market. I do not support the government discriminating.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:25 AM   #67
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I disagree with you there, and agree with AOG...discrimination is part of life...EVERYWHERE. It is normal, and there is no point in fighting it. The only thing you can do is push it "underground" and when it pops up, people are ZOMG up in arms about it. As AOG said, discrimination has been around since Moses wore short pants, and it ain't going anywhere....and that's fine. Racism and discrimination unites a group, and gives them more power. However, that is only for the private market. I do not support the government discriminating.
When I said the free market fixed discrimination, I meant that it will fix the discrimination issues that laws try to correct, such as serving whites only. Nothing will ever fix personal discrimination and racism.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:30 AM   #68
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Too bad this judge doesn't know the difference between the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Just sayin'....
How so?

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Love the defense's argument.
A couple of clerks doing the job they were assigned. They threw everything they could think of at it, hoping something would stick.

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So because people supported slavery and segregation that is a failure of the free market? Looks like I've finally got you backed into a corner with no ammo left.
Some day, when you live and function in the real world, you'll understand that people voting with their dollars is an important ideal to strive for, but not an absolute principle that should be implemented to the exclusion of all others.

There will always be a fringe group or an individual that lacks the buying power to protect their rights from being trampled by the masses. And frankly, the masses are sometimes too stupid or immoral to consider everyone's rights and treat all people with the basic respect they deserve.

Govt's most important role is to enshrine inalienable rights for people and protect those rights from being stomped or whittled away by others. IMHO, govt meddles in way too much stuff and handles too many things poorly. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have an important role to play in many respects.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:39 AM   #69
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I am one of the biggest proponents of equal rights for everyone but take for example, laws about discriminating against gays, that's not something I would support. I don't think people should discriminate but it's not something that should be regulated.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:42 AM   #70
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But discrimination, however, is fixable in the free market.
The free market helps, but cannot do it alone
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:45 AM   #71
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The free market helps, but cannot do it alone
So...regulate until everyone loves each other?
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:54 AM   #72
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A couple of clerks doing the job they were assigned. They threw everything they could think of at it, hoping something would stick.
And I do not fault them for that. That people do believe that argument and its validity in denying equality is what I find laughable.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:00 PM   #73
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So...regulate until everyone loves each other?
you really are stupid, eh? What I'm saying is, it's a combination of things that (free market, legislation, choice, education, etc), collectively, will help solve issues granted they are executed properly.

That's the problem with you. It's either this way (free market), or nothing at all. Black and white. Again, I think it's absurd that you think the Free Market, alone will solve every problem, ITT slavery and discrimination.

You know, maybe you should try and actually learn something in college instead of wasting your parent's money on tuition and some BS degree. You certainly aren't doing your generation any favors.

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Old 02-15-2014, 12:10 PM   #74
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I'm not proposing we find a way to end racism. People can do that on their own time. But the free market will take care of any discriminating businesses.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:13 PM   #75
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you really are stupid, eh? What I'm saying is, it's a combination of things that (free market, legislation, choice, education, etc), collectively, will help solve issues granted they are executed properly.

That's the problem with you. It's either this way (free market), or nothing at all. Black and white. Again, I think it's absurd that you think the Free Market, alone will solve every problem, ITT slavery and discrimination.

You know, maybe you should try and actually learn something in college instead of wasting your parent's money on tuition and some BS degree. You certainly aren't doing your generation any favors.
You brought up a good point. The education (more specifically, the parenting) has really let society go in terms of respect for one another. Divisive politicians don't help either, but the only reason they can get away with their BS (on both sides) is due to the fact that most people are simply uneducated and generally, uncultured. We are fighting social problems from the finish line (ie, these people are disrespectful pricks, so lets pass laws to make their activities illegal) rather than trying to make sure people don't turn out to be pricks in the first place. Having said that, I do blame a LOT of these problems on the lax parenting and the poor education system that is failing this country. Since we are talking about discrimination, take minorities, or blacks specifically. Their out of wedlock birthrate is 74%. Their unemployment is double whites. Blacks are 7 times more like to end up going through the criminal justice system than whites, and twice as likely as hispanics. You never hear ANY of this being massively pushed in the media (except maybe Oreilly, Don West, Ben Carson, and Don Lemon.) Politicians sure as hell don't want to actually fix the issue. Look at the problems in Chicago. Some studies show that nearly 50% of all black males under 23 have been arrested ( http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ested/4669225/) ....after a certain point, people who start arguing discrimination are hit with..."well, can you blame them?" Can you blame an employer for not wanting to hire a black male because of the statistics? Personally, as far as "social justice"...I think we have far over-corrected.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:24 PM   #76
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You brought up a good point. The education (more specifically, the parenting) has really let society go in terms of respect for one another. Divisive politicians don't help either, but the only reason they can get away with their BS (on both sides) is due to the fact that most people are simply uneducated and generally, uncultured. We are fighting social problems from the finish line (ie, these people are disrespectful pricks, so lets pass laws to make their activities illegal) rather than trying to make sure people don't turn out to be pricks in the first place. Having said that, I do blame a LOT of these problems on the lax parenting and the poor education system that is failing this country.
Agree with parenting that needs to improve, teaching tolerance and acceptance of people from different cultures, backgrounds, ethnicities, and improving education.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:58 PM   #77
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Agree with parenting that needs to improve, teaching tolerance and acceptance of people from different cultures, backgrounds, ethnicities, and improving education.
But if we agree that it's the problem, how do you legislate better parenting?
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:15 PM   #78
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But if we agree that it's the problem, how do you legislate better parenting?
That's a good question. I don't think you can write a law, or enforce a law that states "thou shall be a good parent".

Now turning it the other way, how will the free market make for better parenting?
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Old 02-15-2014, 01:56 PM   #79
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That's a good question. I don't think you can write a law, or enforce a law that states "thou shall be a good parent".

Now turning it the other way, how will the free market make for better parenting?
Well, given the current variables...poor parents raise poor kids (poor I mean bad, not money), poor kids can't work, end up criminals, get killed or locked up. Vicious cycle. Thats the current "solution." I think entitlements perpetuate this, as quite often we provide MORE entitlements for having more kids. Personally, I think backing off some entitlements would help. I also think that child entitlements should never be in the form of money/EBT. It should be vouchers that can ONLY benefit the child....certain foods only, daycare, school supplies, whatever. It should have a name on it to make sure it cannot be sold and if it is NOT used the fund gets cut off. A work requirement for the parents should also be created, and a minimum one at that. It should be a very difficult and damn near unpleasant thing to have kids if you can't properly care for them.

As to the freemarket, well, like you said earlier, no such thing as a purely free market, but if we're just spitballing....there will be some pain. Parents without entitlements will end up on the street with their kids in tow. You will see this all over the country. It will scare a lot of people straight as the problem is visible and unpleasant. Over time, this problem will subside from a combination of shaming, clear visible evidence of what happens, etc. We can agree people (young people especially) often forget the consequences of actions, but seeing a homeless teenage mom everyday will remind people. Obviously all speculation, but like I said, spitballing.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:32 PM   #80
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I'm not proposing we find a way to end racism. People can do that on their own time. But the free market will take care of any discriminating businesses.
I think you might wish to speak to some black survivors of the Jim Crow south before pushing forth that assertion. Seems the reality was considerably less sanguine than your more simplified "free market" abstractions. It took other societal elements beyond simple market forces to bring about greater social and economic justice.
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