E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 03-15-2014, 11:09 PM   #1
Davew
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,088
My Ride: 2004 330ci Msport
Non M SMG/SSG 6speed Clutch Actuator/Pressure plate

Been doing a lot of research on options of flywheel / clutch / pressure plate for my 330ci, it seems that the GS6S37BZ and GS6S53BZ gearboxes run the exact same hydraulic units as each other, except for the clutch actuator. The clutch actuator seems to be designed for the higher clamping force of cars like the 550i and some of the 6 series. The clutch and flywheel aren't compatible (22 spline 330, 26 spline 550) between the two, but the pressure plate seems to be.

If you look at stock torque figures for both cars, the 550i has 40% more torque than the 330 stock.

I am planning to upgrade my set up using the GS6S53BZ actuator, should mean I can run a much firmer pressure plate

Anyway, thought I would share, also makes me wonder if the M3 smg's could run modified actuator with a bigger bore and piston to overcome some of its limitations as far as pressure plate selection goes??? Or modify the M5 version to fit, or bore the M3 one to accept M5 internals.

Last edited by Davew; 03-19-2014 at 04:42 AM.
Davew is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 03-16-2014, 11:31 AM   #2
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 372
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
Wow, that actuator is $5k from dealer parts.

That is the point at which I rip the SSG out. Or try a M3 SMG swap. Or DCT?

Have you tried the M3 pressure plate with the stock actuator?

Do you have an pictures of the stock clutch assembly, by chance?

-Matt
__________________
-Matt

2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 02:16 PM   #3
Davew
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,088
My Ride: 2004 330ci Msport
The actuator is around $1000 us. I would love to get my hands on one for comparison. May ring round the wrecking yards and try and find a junk one to disassemble and measure up. I would hate to be wrong and drop a grand on this!!! Can't find anything through searches on google etc.

I haven't had the gearbox out the car yet, but the options for a clutch/ pressure plate/ flywheel at these torque levels seem to be limited with the 6 speed, let alone the 6 speed ssg. I did however bore my actuator out and sleeve it to suit an off the shelf seal, approximately 1mm oversize with an industrial hydraulic seal, and this made a fair improvement in clutch action in itself.
Davew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 10:45 PM   #4
Davew
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,088
My Ride: 2004 330ci Msport
I still have to get more reliable numbers, the info online is scarce, but even with the original GS6S37BZ clutch actuator, running at its maximum 40 bar ( from wds ), the original piston/seal at approx. 20mm would apply 282psi, if the bore/piston was to increase to 24mm (which would from memory be what I bored mine safely to before inserting the sleeve), the pressure would be 406psi. It will still then be met by the clutch fork (lever).
Davew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 06:49 AM   #5
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 372
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
I think the recommended combination to me was a M3 Pressure Plate (stock), and it's possible that ClutchNet KS2071 may work. Not 100% certain anyone has actually tried this yet. I'm going to call up Maximum PSI today and see what their schedule is like.

-Matt
__________________
-Matt

2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 05:28 AM   #6
Davew
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,088
My Ride: 2004 330ci Msport
I understand what is usually recommended for our boxes, I would like to run a set up that's not recommended I have had no success finding a used clutch actuator for either model as yet to play with, but I am confident of this working. I may spend a bit of my leave coming up machining a custom item, at least this way I can also minimise the overall volume of fluid with the bigger bore. Internally, the ssg actuator is quite different to the smg.

With the twin screw on my car, I don't feel a stock M3 pressure plate is going to give me much room for future mods. My last dyno run was in 37degree C weather, with a heat soaked motor, factory headers, and put down 320rwhp on a dyno dynamics, considering the torque increase down low with the ts, I don't feel a stock M3 pressure plate will cut it here.

I have contacted a few clutch companies, and their tried and tested ssg set ups are always what they recommend, but they typically don't offer the margin in clamp force I would want. I haven't started on the bottom end yet!!!

Last edited by Davew; 03-19-2014 at 05:38 AM.
Davew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 09:34 PM   #7
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 372
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
Well, I'm not doing too bad with torque either, and looking at around 400 ft*lb on E85 as the goal, so I'm in a similar boat. Nick G said the setup I mentioned above is good for his stage 2 kit, which in theory is 370 rw tq... So hopefully it should be enough for me. I'll let you know what I end up doing.
__________________
-Matt

2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 10:43 PM   #8
Davew
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,088
My Ride: 2004 330ci Msport
Matt, are you keeping the oem dual mass flywheel? I have been following your thread and realise your hp/tq goals are beyond what mine are.
Davew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2014, 06:34 AM   #9
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 372
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
Yes, I think one of the reasons people had issues was switching away from the dual mass setup. I am going to try and keep the characteristics of the system as close to stock as possible, which should hopefully prevent issues.
__________________
-Matt

2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 06:29 AM   #10
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 372
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
To bring this back around - Maximum PSI ended up installing a South Bend Stage 3 clutch, which is an organic based clutch material. Afterwards, the stock actuator worked, but had serious limitations.

Dave's idea of using the 550i clutch actuator works. It's not 100% perfect, as there's still some small delay compared to stock, but it operates normally. With the stock actuator you could feel the pulsing at low clutch engagement, such as doing a U-turn in 2nd gear, or in a parking lot. Now that is smooth. There was a a giant delay between the 2-3 shift at anything nearing high RPM or full throttle, that's now gone. Reverse is still a little chattery, but that's fine with me.

The bottom line is there is room for expansion with the stock gearbox and SSG.

Thanks again to Dave for the idea.
__________________
-Matt

2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 09:54 AM   #11
Davew
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,088
My Ride: 2004 330ci Msport
I'm so glad it worked out as well as it did for you Matt. I will also be changing clutch and flywheel over the next few weeks, different brand and likely pressure plate rating. I will install the clutch and see how I go initially with my current actuator (+1mm bore), and if it isn't sufficient I will follow suit .

Will report back with results.

Thank you for taking the $1000+ leap of faith Matt, there was a lot of unknowns doing this conversion, as there is little info at all on these boxes, but hopefully this will give other ssg owners the ability to take their builds further than a stock pressure plate would typically allow
__________________
Davew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2014, 12:02 PM   #12
wanganstyle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northern California; SF BAY
Posts: 217
My Ride: 1998 M3 / 2002 325i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davew View Post
I'm so glad it worked out as well as it did for you Matt. I will also be changing clutch and flywheel over the next few weeks, different brand and likely pressure plate rating. I will install the clutch and see how I go initially with my current actuator (+1mm bore), and if it isn't sufficient I will follow suit .

Will report back with results.

Thank you for taking the $1000+ leap of faith Matt, there was a lot of unknowns doing this conversion, as there is little info at all on these boxes, but hopefully this will give other ssg owners the ability to take their builds further than a stock pressure plate would typically allow

IF one is making real power and wants to use an OEM pressure plate there is only 1 item you should be purchasing; the clutch set from 135i/335i.

they have been proven at 450rwhp; the pressure plate is direct bolt on for a E46 330i ZF 6 speed.

I used a ZF 6 speed (conventional 3 pedal gearbox) and fitted the 135i clutch set; its just fine for 3 pedal driving around town.



e46 330i zf 6 original flywheel + e92 335i/135i OEM clutch set
__________________

LSD dreamers thread

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14989087
WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

Last edited by wanganstyle; 08-07-2014 at 12:03 PM.
wanganstyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2014, 02:11 PM   #13
Davew
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,088
My Ride: 2004 330ci Msport
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
IF one is making real power and wants to use an OEM pressure plate there is only 1 item you should be purchasing; the clutch set from 135i/335i.

they have been proven at 450rwhp; the pressure plate is direct bolt on for a E46 330i ZF 6 speed.

I used a ZF 6 speed (conventional 3 pedal gearbox) and fitted the 135i clutch set; its just fine for 3 pedal driving around town.



e46 330i zf 6 original flywheel + e92 335i/135i OEM clutch set
Hi wanganstyle

Appreciate your input. The ssg has limitations that a manual doesn't. Fitting any pressure plate that is uprated can cause issues. In the ssg, you can't just apply more force on the clutch pedal. This mod is to allow the ssg to apply more force. I haven't researched the clamping force of the 135i/335 pressure plates, but if any extra pedal effort is required, this mod MAY also be required with the ssg.

In my case, I have no intention of using oem parts for the clutch/ pressure plate/ flywheel, but I am not suggesting what gear others should use, it is more so that if an ssg owner does run into this issue after fitting an uprated pressure plate, this mod is a possible option.

Dave
__________________
Davew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 06:27 AM   #14
wanganstyle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northern California; SF BAY
Posts: 217
My Ride: 1998 M3 / 2002 325i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davew View Post
Hi wanganstyle

Appreciate your input. The ssg has limitations that a manual doesn't. Fitting any pressure plate that is uprated can cause issues. In the ssg, you can't just apply more force on the clutch pedal. This mod is to allow the ssg to apply more force. I haven't researched the clamping force of the 135i/335 pressure plates, but if any extra pedal effort is required, this mod MAY also be required with the ssg.

In my case, I have no intention of using oem parts for the clutch/ pressure plate/ flywheel, but I am not suggesting what gear others should use, it is more so that if an ssg owner does run into this issue after fitting an uprated pressure plate, this mod is a possible option.

Dave


the 335 e92 also has a SSG of sorts; perhaps use those parts?
__________________

LSD dreamers thread

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14989087
WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
wanganstyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 06:29 AM   #15
mdrobnak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 372
My Ride: 04 330i SMG TT STG1
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
the 335 e92 also has a SSG of sorts; perhaps use those parts?
That's a DCT, different animal. Definitely a cool transmission, but totally different setup.
__________________
-Matt

2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
mdrobnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 06:39 AM   #16
wanganstyle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northern California; SF BAY
Posts: 217
My Ride: 1998 M3 / 2002 325i
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdrobnak View Post
That's a DCT, different animal. Definitely a cool transmission, but totally different setup.

gotcha. i could have sworn there was another strange animal with ssg non m in the e60/92 first gen era.

I'm a 3 pedal person so its all funky to me.
__________________

LSD dreamers thread

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14989087
WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
wanganstyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2014, 08:14 AM   #17
Davew
OEM ///Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,088
My Ride: 2004 330ci Msport
GS6S53BZ was fitted to the 8 cylinder models, GS6S37BZ was fitted to the 6 cylinder models. Although the boxes are different, the hydraulic systems are the same EXCEPT the actuator. These two boxes covered many models.
__________________
Davew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is OFF





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use