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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 03-16-2014, 12:09 AM   #1
Davew
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My Ride: 2004 330ci Msport
Non M SMG/SSG 6speed Clutch Actuator/Pressure plate

Been doing a lot of research on options of flywheel / clutch / pressure plate for my 330ci, it seems that the GS6S37BZ and GS6S53BZ gearboxes run the exact same hydraulic units as each other, except for the clutch actuator. The clutch actuator seems to be designed for the higher clamping force of cars like the 550i and some of the 6 series. The clutch and flywheel aren't compatible (22 spline 330, 26 spline 550) between the two, but the pressure plate seems to be.

If you look at stock torque figures for both cars, the 550i has 40% more torque than the 330 stock.

I am planning to upgrade my set up using the GS6S53BZ actuator, should mean I can run a much firmer pressure plate

Anyway, thought I would share, also makes me wonder if the M3 smg's could run modified actuator with a bigger bore and piston to overcome some of its limitations as far as pressure plate selection goes??? Or modify the M5 version to fit, or bore the M3 one to accept M5 internals.

Last edited by Davew; 03-19-2014 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:31 PM   #2
mdrobnak
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Wow, that actuator is $5k from dealer parts.

That is the point at which I rip the SSG out. Or try a M3 SMG swap. Or DCT?

Have you tried the M3 pressure plate with the stock actuator?

Do you have an pictures of the stock clutch assembly, by chance?

-Matt
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2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
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Old 03-16-2014, 03:16 PM   #3
Davew
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The actuator is around $1000 us. I would love to get my hands on one for comparison. May ring round the wrecking yards and try and find a junk one to disassemble and measure up. I would hate to be wrong and drop a grand on this!!! Can't find anything through searches on google etc.

I haven't had the gearbox out the car yet, but the options for a clutch/ pressure plate/ flywheel at these torque levels seem to be limited with the 6 speed, let alone the 6 speed ssg. I did however bore my actuator out and sleeve it to suit an off the shelf seal, approximately 1mm oversize with an industrial hydraulic seal, and this made a fair improvement in clutch action in itself.
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:45 PM   #4
Davew
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I still have to get more reliable numbers, the info online is scarce, but even with the original GS6S37BZ clutch actuator, running at its maximum 40 bar ( from wds ), the original piston/seal at approx. 20mm would apply 282psi, if the bore/piston was to increase to 24mm (which would from memory be what I bored mine safely to before inserting the sleeve), the pressure would be 406psi. It will still then be met by the clutch fork (lever).
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:49 AM   #5
mdrobnak
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I think the recommended combination to me was a M3 Pressure Plate (stock), and it's possible that ClutchNet KS2071 may work. Not 100% certain anyone has actually tried this yet. I'm going to call up Maximum PSI today and see what their schedule is like.

-Matt
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2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:28 AM   #6
Davew
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I understand what is usually recommended for our boxes, I would like to run a set up that's not recommended I have had no success finding a used clutch actuator for either model as yet to play with, but I am confident of this working. I may spend a bit of my leave coming up machining a custom item, at least this way I can also minimise the overall volume of fluid with the bigger bore. Internally, the ssg actuator is quite different to the smg.

With the twin screw on my car, I don't feel a stock M3 pressure plate is going to give me much room for future mods. My last dyno run was in 37degree C weather, with a heat soaked motor, factory headers, and put down 320rwhp on a dyno dynamics, considering the torque increase down low with the ts, I don't feel a stock M3 pressure plate will cut it here.

I have contacted a few clutch companies, and their tried and tested ssg set ups are always what they recommend, but they typically don't offer the margin in clamp force I would want. I haven't started on the bottom end yet!!!

Last edited by Davew; 03-19-2014 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:34 PM   #7
mdrobnak
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Well, I'm not doing too bad with torque either, and looking at around 400 ft*lb on E85 as the goal, so I'm in a similar boat. Nick G said the setup I mentioned above is good for his stage 2 kit, which in theory is 370 rw tq... So hopefully it should be enough for me. I'll let you know what I end up doing.
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2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:43 PM   #8
Davew
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Matt, are you keeping the oem dual mass flywheel? I have been following your thread and realise your hp/tq goals are beyond what mine are.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:34 AM   #9
mdrobnak
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Yes, I think one of the reasons people had issues was switching away from the dual mass setup. I am going to try and keep the characteristics of the system as close to stock as possible, which should hopefully prevent issues.
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2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:29 AM   #10
mdrobnak
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To bring this back around - Maximum PSI ended up installing a South Bend Stage 3 clutch, which is an organic based clutch material. Afterwards, the stock actuator worked, but had serious limitations.

Dave's idea of using the 550i clutch actuator works. It's not 100% perfect, as there's still some small delay compared to stock, but it operates normally. With the stock actuator you could feel the pulsing at low clutch engagement, such as doing a U-turn in 2nd gear, or in a parking lot. Now that is smooth. There was a a giant delay between the 2-3 shift at anything nearing high RPM or full throttle, that's now gone. Reverse is still a little chattery, but that's fine with me.

The bottom line is there is room for expansion with the stock gearbox and SSG.

Thanks again to Dave for the idea.
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2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:54 AM   #11
Davew
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I'm so glad it worked out as well as it did for you Matt. I will also be changing clutch and flywheel over the next few weeks, different brand and likely pressure plate rating. I will install the clutch and see how I go initially with my current actuator (+1mm bore), and if it isn't sufficient I will follow suit .

Will report back with results.

Thank you for taking the $1000+ leap of faith Matt, there was a lot of unknowns doing this conversion, as there is little info at all on these boxes, but hopefully this will give other ssg owners the ability to take their builds further than a stock pressure plate would typically allow
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Old 08-07-2014, 01:02 PM   #12
wanganstyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davew View Post
I'm so glad it worked out as well as it did for you Matt. I will also be changing clutch and flywheel over the next few weeks, different brand and likely pressure plate rating. I will install the clutch and see how I go initially with my current actuator (+1mm bore), and if it isn't sufficient I will follow suit .

Will report back with results.

Thank you for taking the $1000+ leap of faith Matt, there was a lot of unknowns doing this conversion, as there is little info at all on these boxes, but hopefully this will give other ssg owners the ability to take their builds further than a stock pressure plate would typically allow

IF one is making real power and wants to use an OEM pressure plate there is only 1 item you should be purchasing; the clutch set from 135i/335i.

they have been proven at 450rwhp; the pressure plate is direct bolt on for a E46 330i ZF 6 speed.

I used a ZF 6 speed (conventional 3 pedal gearbox) and fitted the 135i clutch set; its just fine for 3 pedal driving around town.



e46 330i zf 6 original flywheel + e92 335i/135i OEM clutch set
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LSD dreamers thread

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WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
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http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

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Old 08-07-2014, 03:11 PM   #13
Davew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
IF one is making real power and wants to use an OEM pressure plate there is only 1 item you should be purchasing; the clutch set from 135i/335i.

they have been proven at 450rwhp; the pressure plate is direct bolt on for a E46 330i ZF 6 speed.

I used a ZF 6 speed (conventional 3 pedal gearbox) and fitted the 135i clutch set; its just fine for 3 pedal driving around town.



e46 330i zf 6 original flywheel + e92 335i/135i OEM clutch set
Hi wanganstyle

Appreciate your input. The ssg has limitations that a manual doesn't. Fitting any pressure plate that is uprated can cause issues. In the ssg, you can't just apply more force on the clutch pedal. This mod is to allow the ssg to apply more force. I haven't researched the clamping force of the 135i/335 pressure plates, but if any extra pedal effort is required, this mod MAY also be required with the ssg.

In my case, I have no intention of using oem parts for the clutch/ pressure plate/ flywheel, but I am not suggesting what gear others should use, it is more so that if an ssg owner does run into this issue after fitting an uprated pressure plate, this mod is a possible option.

Dave
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:27 AM   #14
wanganstyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davew View Post
Hi wanganstyle

Appreciate your input. The ssg has limitations that a manual doesn't. Fitting any pressure plate that is uprated can cause issues. In the ssg, you can't just apply more force on the clutch pedal. This mod is to allow the ssg to apply more force. I haven't researched the clamping force of the 135i/335 pressure plates, but if any extra pedal effort is required, this mod MAY also be required with the ssg.

In my case, I have no intention of using oem parts for the clutch/ pressure plate/ flywheel, but I am not suggesting what gear others should use, it is more so that if an ssg owner does run into this issue after fitting an uprated pressure plate, this mod is a possible option.

Dave


the 335 e92 also has a SSG of sorts; perhaps use those parts?
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LSD dreamers thread

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14989087
WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:29 AM   #15
mdrobnak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
the 335 e92 also has a SSG of sorts; perhaps use those parts?
That's a DCT, different animal. Definitely a cool transmission, but totally different setup.
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2004 330i with Technique Tuning Stage 1 Kit, South Bend Stage 3 Clutch, Walbro 400 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive FPR, Modified Return Lines, E36 Fuel Filter, Ethanol Content Sensor, 550i Clutch Actuator.
93 Octane - 8.5 PSI : 309RWHP on a Superflow / 3XXRWHP on a DynoJet
E85 - ? PSI : ???RWHP on a DynoJet
First SSG MoTeC M150 Powered 330
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:39 AM   #16
wanganstyle
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Originally Posted by mdrobnak View Post
That's a DCT, different animal. Definitely a cool transmission, but totally different setup.

gotcha. i could have sworn there was another strange animal with ssg non m in the e60/92 first gen era.

I'm a 3 pedal person so its all funky to me.
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LSD dreamers thread

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14989087
WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:14 AM   #17
Davew
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GS6S53BZ was fitted to the 8 cylinder models, GS6S37BZ was fitted to the 6 cylinder models. Although the boxes are different, the hydraulic systems are the same EXCEPT the actuator. These two boxes covered many models.
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Old 10-05-2014, 08:42 PM   #18
Davew
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Copied from my build thread. Update on the clutch:

It was pretty obvious after upgrading to TS2+ and Stage 3 head, etc, that the poor old oem clutch, pressure plate, and dual mass flywheel werent going to survive for long. And there began my search for a set up that would hold the power/torque, and work not only with the 6 speed, but also the hydraulics of the SSG/SMG-H. I spoke with my regular parts supplier, and the options were very limited. At this point, the only proven set ups to work (to the best of my knowledge/research) with this box was the UUC lightweight, and the FX250. Both concerned me enough to further research, because with both I was already close to or over the recommended power levels recommended. As things stood, I was getting an occasional transmission error due to the can bus engine speed input, signal implausable, so I didnt want to upset things further by adding a "super" lightweight flywheel. It was at this point, recommendations were pretty much "use oem parts, and replace every 40,000km". No.

It was soon after this, the seal on the actuator failed. Freaking out at the price and at the time 8 week wait, I decided to bore, sleeve, and replace the seal in the actuator from an "automotive grade" seal, to a hydraulic cylinder seal. The difference with the oversize actuator was chalk and cheese, so this gave me an idea. I crawled back under the car and the system was a basic hydraulic unit, much the same as the large units I work with as a Fitter/ machinist. The idea was then hatched to just buy the next kit up from what was recommended, and bore the actuator bigger. I decided also to research all i could on the gearbox itself. Information is scarce and scattered. It was during this research that i stumbled on a single sentence regarding the larger SSG unit, GS6S53BZ, "while the hydraulic units are the same, the GS6S53BZ uses a larger actuator". I decided not to use this actuator, for two reasons, one, I couldnt find enough info on the actual difference in bore size, two, I was too cheap to pay over $1000 for something I could make lol.

At this point, the flywheel was getting worse. So I contacted two clutch manufacturers, and requested pricing on the models up from what was recommended. At the same time I thought I would contact UUC and see if the twin clutch could be adapted for the 6 speed. Rob recommended the lightweight combo which was proven with this gearbox, and I explained my concerns due to the output of the motor, etc, and he responded that he may have a solution that ticks all my boxes, but its a little bit away. So I held off.

I decided to nurse the clutch, that lasted about 5 seconds lol, and the clutch started deteriorating quickly, especially after the headers and exhaust were done. I thought I may have to order a clutch regardless. It was just after this time Rob from UUC posted in this forum about wanting a car to trial there new 6 speed twin clutch. I knew my car didint qualify for the requirements of the offer he put through, but I had to have one lol, so I emailed him, got my name on the pre order list, paid for the item, and waited. Poor Rob, for the next month while the clutch was being manufactured, I basically emailed him 3 times a week, "is it ready yet" lol. Then about week 3, the clutch in my car completely failed. The harassment levels increased dramtically! I must thank Rob at this point also, when it comes to my car, I can be a pain in the A, and Rob responded to each and every email to the best of his ability, and put up with my insistance, bordering harassment!

The clutch arrived, the car had already been stripped. The new set up bolted straight up, no issues. As a machinist, quality wise etc, I was very impressed.

Then time for adaption.

At this point, I made a number of errors. Firstly, as soon as it didnt adapt, I put it down to the clutch actuator. Secondly, I forgot to connect the battery charger. I can not conclusively say that this clutch set up wont work with the stock actuator. I had it in my head that it wouldnt from word go. If other SSG owners are considering using this clutch, I would advise them to contact UUC and inquire the force required to actuate the pressure plate compared to oem. If it is much greater than the oem, the GS6S53BZ actuator should work well.

I set about increasing the bore/piston size of the stock actuator. A trip down to the local hydraulic supplier saw me leave with both 22 and 24mm hydraulic seals. I got to work and thought, bugger it, 24mm straight up. 24mm resulted in too thin a wall on the actuator. So at this point, I machined it further, and put an aluminium bar through the middle. Once the actuator was welded, there was a degree of distortion, which then sealed its fate to the bin.

A new item was machined up out of stainless steel bar. I then figured why not go 25mm. The body was the easy part. I had intended to reuse the original piston, due to the magnet that was attached. I modified the seal end without issue, then in all my wisdom, decided to silver solder a brass end on the brass rear of the piston. Fantastic idea lol. The magnet on the piston bubbled, sagged, and lost all magnetism. This was the first of many lessons learnt on this project about magnets!

I began making a completely new piston. Found some magnets and attached them using epoxy. Trialled them with the sensor, no go. A long story short, after wrecking 2 dremels, bmw business tape deck, 6 electrical motors, purchasing every magnet available locally, I found the needed magnet in a pneumatic cylinder I had saved for another project. The magnet required must have the north pole on the width of the external diameter, and south pole on the width of the internal diameter. I now had a working actuator.

With the new actuator in hand, it was now time to slide back under the car and confirm sensor placing. Another job that did my head in. If I had have taken a measurement from the bellhousing surface where the actuator bolts up, to the clutch fork face on the oem set up, then repeated this measurement with the new clutch, then add/ remove the difference from the actuator rod, I would have had no issues here. This is what I would suggest anyone do fitting a non OEM clutch to the SSG.

Basically, I now needed to know what length the rod needed to be, and in what position the actuator was "home". The original sensor position, and the original rod, did not work, the car would not adapt. I removed the clutch position sensor from the actuator. It defaulted to the value of 540 increments. I made the assumption that this figure would represent the clutch being fully engaged in the case of a failure, to ensure gears could not be selected. I measured the dimension outlined above, and then measured the depth of the actuator in the 540 increment position (with sensor attached to actuator), and the rod size needed was approximately 5-10mm longer (cant remember exact measurement at the second) than the original. The increments measured by the clutch position sensor were roughly 10mm = 100 increments. The gearbox then adapted, no problems.
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