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///M3 Forum
The BMW E46 ///M3 is the M version E46 and puts out an amazing 333 HP and 262 lb-ft of torque at stock specs! There are an amazing amount of modifications for both the coupe and convertible models so read up and get started modifying your cars today!

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Old 05-01-2014, 04:59 PM   #1
Mishimoto
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Mishimoto Build-Thread: E46 M3 Performance Radiator

After coming to the realization that our existing E46 M3 aluminum radiator was not performing as we would like for track-specific vehicles, our team determined it was time to take action. Our original product was designed some time ago, and our processes, material use, and overall attention to detail have significantly improved since then.

These days Mishimoto is spending huge amounts of time in R&D to develop effective and efficient cooling products. Our new facility is equipped with all the technology and tools needed for fabrication and design. Any new products leaving our facility are subjected to rigorous testing to ensure proper and efficient operation. If a product does not outperform the OEM component, we go back to the drawing board and see what changes can be made. With this information, equipment, and experience in our back pocket, we could adequately tackle the revamp of this radiator.

Now, let's move forward to the design and R&D process our team went through to develop a new radiator.

Product Development Round 1

Our first round of development began in October. After scouring some local forums and talking to some of our contacts, we were able to locate an LSB E46 M3. Once in the shop we put it on the lift and began removing associated components.


LSB E46 M3 on lift


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator test fitting

We had both a stock radiator and our previous offering on hand to evaluate core size, thickness, and mounting locations. With some measurements taken and a general plan, we could begin developing a few initial prototypes. We also decided to investigate development of an electric fan conversion, so stay tuned for that later down the road.

Our initial inspection revealed that the core composition of our current offering was hindering on-track cooling performance. Our core's fin composition was not dense enough to promote adequate heat transfer points. Additionally, the previous design had inferior cooling tubes in both size and overall count. We decided on a few changes to this to enhance efficiency. This new radiator is being designed completely from the ground up with no parts or components reused from the previous design. For our new design we would be focusing on decreasing fin height, increasing cooling tube count, and increasing core thickness without affecting fitment. Check out our basic goal list below!

Primary Goals
  1. Provide a direct-fit performance replacement radiator that functions with the factory mechanical fan.
  2. Radiator should have larger core capacity (volume) and thickness compared to the OEM unit.
  3. Collect proven performance data on a high-horsepower vehicle under extreme driving conditions.

Secondary Goal - Offer an electric fan conversion kit and test the results of mechanical fan removal on power output.

Perfect Fitment


We strive for perfect fitment on all our products, and this radiator will be no different. This radiator utilizes quick disconnect hose connections, so we would be replicating these by way of CNC-machined aluminum components. This would ensure a precise, leak-free connection. Unlike the factory radiator, our unit will feature full aluminum construction, which will provide improved reliability and durability, as well as improved heat dissipation. This radiator will need to function with the factory mechanical fan, so the core thickness will remain within proper tolerances to allow for an acceptable fan clearance.

Capacity and Cooling Efficiency


This radiator not only needs to fit, but it also needs to perform to our standards. Our previous offering had issues with cooling in a track environment; this is not something you want with a performance vehicle. We have a strategic plan to modify our core composition to provide improved density over the factory unit as well as increase the core thickness for greater capacity. Both of these improvements along with the use of aluminum end tanks should in theory provide improved cooling efficiency compared to the factory radiator. "Should" is not a word we like to use, so we will be performing some serious testing to ensure this product performs adequately in a severe environment. This is the fun part!

Proven Data

Finding both a vehicle and location will be a bit of a challenge for our testing processes. We started this adventure in October, but after some initial testing and design work it was the middle of winter, which does not provide optimal conditions for testing a cooling product. We would need to travel to a warmer climate and find a vehicle that would emulate the worst-case cooling scenario. Stay tuned for this testing.

E-Fan Conversion

The mechanical clutch fan is a great concept and worked for decades as an efficient means of engine cooling. The majority of vehicles from the early 90s to the present day utilize an electric fan, which improves reliability and cooling power (at times). It also removes mass from the engine's rotating assembly, creating more efficient engine operation. In the past we have seen enthusiasts convert their clutch fans to electric fans when the factory fans fail. Our goal with this project is to offer an easy-to-install, all-inclusive, electric fan conversion kit. This will need to function with supercharged vehicles. Additionally, we will be testing this to see exactly how much power, if any, the vehicle gains.

Moving Forward

With our goals set in place and our initial measurements collected, it was time to draw up a few designs and make prototypes. Check out a few renderings below!


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator rendering


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator rendering


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator rendering

Our new design features a very tight fin pitch with 58 cooling tubes compared to the 43 on our previous offering. This is a dual-core design and features a rather short fin height for maximum surface area cooling. The shorter fin height allows us to pack more rows of cooling tube as well as more rows of fins. This provides a greater fin surface area with more contact points for heat transfer, which will result in a more efficient radiator. This is exactly what we are looking for with this product.

After some deliberation, we will be manufacturing two prototypes of differing fin composition to evaluate the effect on overall performance. This strategy will help provide the best cooling solution and allow our team to evaluate the effects of the core changes on cooling efficiency.

While we waited for our radiator prototypes to complete production, we decided to spend some time evaluating the electric fan conversion and what our design target would be. Using our Solidworks software, our team came up with the very slick setup you see in the rendering below.


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator and fan-mount rendering

Our plan is to utilize a 16" electric fan with a CFM output similar to the factory mechanical fan. The fan mount is engineered for maximum flow; however, we will need to perform extensive idle testing to ensure that the fan can move air through the core and keep temperatures at bay during idle conditions.

OK, back to the radiator. A few weeks later our prototypes were completed! Check out some images below.


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator prototype


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator prototype


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator prototype, quick disconnect fitting


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator prototype, front


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator prototype fins

The inlet/outlets are both manufactured from CNC billet aluminum and a large majority of the brackets and mounting points are also billet. Although this drives the cost of this product, it allows for an extremely precise final product that will hopefully perform just as good as it looks. Notice the fin pitch scaled to our shop-use penny. This is far denser than the factory unit as you will see later.

As we lined up a test fit vehicle for basic fitment confirmation and idle testing, we also fabricated our planned fan-mount setup. We provided Dan with a sheet of thick aluminum and set him to work cutting out the design. Check out the images of this below!


Fan-mount system fabrication


Mishimoto E46 M3 radiator and fan-mount prototypes assembled

You can see that this fan mount pushes the location to the passenger side of the engine bay, will provide clearance for supercharger setups. Our hope is that this does not negatively affect overall cooling, but only testing will prove this.

Now, this is a lot of product and development to digest at once. That being said, our team is always on the go. We decided it would be wise to also provide some enhanced cooling for the oil system of the E46. Check out some renderings of the oil cooler we have planned.


Mishimoto E46 M3 oil cooler rendering

In the meantime our project managers got things set up with a local test fit vehicle! Andrew from Open Road Tuning provided us with his Oxford Green E46 M3, and we set to work fitting our prototype unit.


Test fitting the Mishimoto radiator


E46 M3 stock radiator


Stock E46 M3 mechanical fan, shrouding and radiator hose


Mishimoto radiator installed with factory mechanical fan


Mishimoto radiator fully installed with shrouding

Normally we have minor adjustments to make to our design after the first test fit. But in this case everything bolted up perfectly and the radiator fit just like the OEM unit. This radiator also fits perfectly with all of the factory shrouding in the engine bay.

As I mentioned earlier, we have two cores with varying fin pitches for testing. It will be interesting to see how these perform compared to each other and with the OEM unit. Check out the three cores together.


Mishimoto radiator prototypes and stock radiator

Some baseline and airflow testing ensued during our initial testing.


Mishimoto radiator installed, without fan shroud


Mishimoto radiator installed with electric fan conversion setup


Mishimoto radiator installed with fan-mount setup


Stock E46 radiator hoses and Mishimoto radiator hoses with temperature sensor adapters


Mishimoto radiator initial testing

As you can see, we are using temperature sensors in the upper and lower radiator hoses to gauge core efficiency. At this point we had tested airflow through both of our cores to ensure that the increased density was not affecting airflow. We found that both cores were handling the airflow properly, so we chose to move forward with our higher-density core. This core would provide greater capacity and larger surface area for cooling compared to the slightly less-dense core. Next, our team set about to make some plans for real-world testing. We had a few requirements.

Testing Requirements
  1. Vehicle must be track-oriented in some way and have a higher power output than stock.
  2. Location must be in a warm environment in January.
  3. Location must have an adequate track for rigorous testing.

Vehicle

After some searching around and speaking with a few of our sponsored drivers, we were able to locate both a vehicle and a test track! Our friends over at Precision Sport Industries had a 550 whp supercharged BMW M3 SMG with factory radiator that would provide an ideal situation for testing our radiator design. Not only was the vehicle making significantly more power than it did with the factory setup, but it also was equipped with several heat exchangers affecting airflow through the core. The front-mount intercooler occupied the lower portion of the grille, and the supercharger oil cooler was positioned in behind the kidneys. Again, this helps us test in a worst-case scenario.

This was my first drive in an SMG vehicle, I was rather impressed. This particular vehicle had an upgraded clutch and the shifts felt super crisp. Normally I sway towards traditional manual transmissions but this one had me thinking otherwise.


Supercharged E46 M3 test vehicle


Supercharged E46 M3 test vehicle

Environment

We considered several warm areas, including California and Texas, and we finally settled on Florida. Temperatures in the Orlando area hovered around 80***730;-90***730; during this time of year. It is not the most extreme environment, but it was the best we could find in January.

Track

After surveying the local area we found Orlando Speedworld nearby. This is a fairly good-sized oval track where we could easily collect all our necessary data. We contacted the folks there and arranged for one day of track rental. After settling the details, our lead engineer and I packed up our bags and headed south for a fun few days of BMW content.

Check out our post below with plenty of images and a video from our full day of testing.

http://engineering.mishimoto.com/201...iator-testing/

It was quite a long, hot day. Swapping radiators proved to be fairly simple until later in the day when a plastic coolant overflow line ruptured under minimal pressure. This is typical of aged plastic coolant components. Once we replaced the line (luckily in stock at the local dealership) we returned the vehicle to the shop and grabbed a cool beverage and a nice meal.

When we returned we evaluated our data and condensed it into a readable format. First up is information for our fan-mount setup and its effect on radiator cooling and efficiency. Check out the report below!

Fan Testing

The purpose of the fan idle testing is to make sure that the increase in fins and tubes of the Mishimoto radiator is not too dense for the fans to pull air through the radiator and cause overheating. We tested three radiators each with stock fans and with the Mishimoto 16" electric fan. The three radiators were the stock radiator, Mishimoto radiator with 2.5 mm fin pitch, and Mishimoto radiator with 3 mm fin pitch.

Tech Info: Fin pitch is simply the distance from one peak of the fin to the next. Since the fins exchange heat at these peaks, the fin pitch is important and can be related to the amount of heat a radiator can reject.

Testing notes: All tests were conducted in our heated garage with an ambient temperature of 65***730;F. All tests were performed on the same stock BMW E46 M3. The stock clutch fan is always running, and the stock pusher fan turns on when the outlet temperature reads 120***730;F.


Stock radiator testing data

Baseline testing shows that the stock system cools the outlet temperature down to about 115***730;F on average.


Stock radiator with Mishimoto 16" fan testing data

A stock radiator with a Mishimoto 16" fan shows outlet temperatures down to about 105***730;F on average. The fan controller is set at about 140***730;F, so the fan kicks on at about that temperature.

Test: The 3 mm fin pitch radiator test shown below had a few extra steps involved during the testing to monitor different situations. Testing conditions:

1. 0-35 minutes: Pusher fan was disconnected and only the 16" electric fan was running. The fan controller was set on the lowest setting (approximate 100***730;F).

2. 35-40 minutes: Pusher fan is reconnected.

3. 40-50 minutes: We turned the fan controller up so that the 16" fan would not run until the outlet temperature reached 140***730;F.


Mishimoto radiator prototype with electric fan testing data

The average outlet temperature dropped to 110***730;F.


Mishimoto radiator with stock mechanical fan testing data

With the stock fans connected, the outlet temperatures would drop to approximately 115***730;F on average.


Mishimoto radiator prototype 2 with stock fan testing data

The radiator outlet temperature of the stock fans cool down to approximately 115***730;F on average.


Mishimoto radiator prototype 2 with Mishimoto 16" electric fan testing data

During the first 20 minutes of this test, the hood was open to monitor for safe conditions, and then the hood was closed for the remainder of the test. You will notice that the 16" fan cools the fluid all the way down to approximately 105***730;F.

Conclusion:

The E46 did not overheat in any of the tests we conducted. Our engineers also can confirm that the stock fans or the 16" fan by itself can be used. Both the 3 mm and 2.5 mm radiators can be used in an idle condition with comparison to the stock cooling system. Despite not having a shroud, the 16" electric fan lowers the E46 radiator temperature more than the stock fan in every scenario.

The Mishimoto 2.5 mm fin pitch radiator was chosen to be our track-tested radiator because it performed slightly better than the 3 mm fin pitch radiator during the idle test. It is expected to perform even better in driving conditions where more air can reach the core.

The graph below shows the Mishimoto 2.5 mm fin pitch radiator with a 16" electric fan compared to the stock radiator with stock fans. You can see that the Mishimoto unit cools to a lower temperature. You can also note that the slope or rate of cooling is much faster than the stock radiator, and this is what we want to see.


Mishimoto prototype radiator vs. stock radiator testing data

Now that we had adequate testing of the fans effect on cooling at idle, we could perform a dynamometer test to see if removing the mechanical fan truly had a measurable effect on power output. Check out our testing information below.

Fan Testing Part 2

We wanted to find out if removing the factory clutch fan would free up any power due to a loss in rotating mass of the stock fan. To test this we strapped the car to the dyno and made about three to four pulls or until we had three consistent runs. Then we removed the stock clutch fan and installed the Mishimoto 16" electric fan. The two lines in the second image shown below are representative of the average of three consecutive runs of each respective fan setup.


E46 M3 on the Mishimoto dynojet


Dyno results from mechanical fan removal

Results: The results were pretty consistent. By removing the stock clutch fan the M3 did gain a slight amount of power. Across the board you can expect about 1% or 2-3 hp gain by removing the stock fan. The top end had the largest peak gains, which were about 5 hp in the 6500-7500rpm range.

This shows that an electric fan is not only a great opportunity for a reliability upgrade, but it will also net some power.

Check back with us next time where we reveal results from our track testing!

Thanks for reading!

Last edited by Mishimoto; 05-01-2014 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Auto-save 1398981648
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Old 05-02-2014, 04:11 PM   #2
Mishimoto
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Hey guys,

Check out the second part of this build thread!

2001–2006 BMW E46 M3 Performance Aluminum Radiator, Part 2: Final Testing Data and Conclusion

The data for this entire build is based around radiator testing. Check out the report from our lead engineer for this particular project.

BMW E46 M3 Radiator Testing

Test Vehicle Modifications: Supercharged, intercooler, methanol injection, full exhaust. Professionally tuned @550 whp on pump gas.

Cooling System Upgrades: 13-row oil cooler for supercharger located behind the kidney grilles. Front-mount intercooler (FMIC) located in the front air dam. Upgraded clutch fan that spins faster than stock clutch fan.

Additional notes: 100% pure distilled water was used for all tests. Stock radiator was in good condition with no debris clogging the core.


Supercharged E46 M3 test vehicle

Testing Conditions: Temperature range 82-85 degrees Fahrenheit and 70% humidity

Testing Location: Orlando Speedworld, 3/8 mile oval track, in Orlando, Florida


Orlando SpeedWorld

Apparatus: For temperature monitoring Mishimoto chose the PLX sensor modules driven by the Kiwi WiFi plus iMFD. This is a wireless system from the sensor modules to an iPad or laptop computer. The software used was the Palmer Performance Scan XL pro, which has full data logging capabilities. Sensor locations were installed inline with the upper and lower coolant hoses.


PLX sensors installed in upper and lower radiator hoses


PLX device box and live data capture (example)

Mishimoto engineers wanted to test the new Mishimoto radiator in short-track and low-speed track conditions to determine the impact of the increased density of the radiator core. Engineers needed to confirm that the radiator would push enough air through the core to cool the engine and not cause overheating. A dense core design rejects more heat in a higher-speed environment, so testing the radiator in a worst-case scenario was paramount to confirm effectiveness.

Core Information: Compared to the stock core, the Mishimoto core has several changes to improve the conductance of the radiator. Improvements include decreasing fin height, which allows for more coolant tubes, increasing fin pitch, which aids in heat transfer, and increasing overall core thickness. The two figures below represent these changes. Overall capacity in terms of volume for the stock radiator is 0.65 gallon, while the Mishimoto radiator showed a 25% increase to 0.87 gallons.


Coolant surface area comparison


Air surface area comparison

Track Scenario One

First we drove a few laps around the track to get the engine and tires warmed up. Next, we drove full-speed laps for about 7–10 minutes, or until the temperature data reached a stable condition. Since the track is an oval we can explain the details of a lap fairly easily. For a typical lap under scenario one, Mishimoto engineers chose to run the car in 3rd gear for the entire lap. The straight section would see an acceleration from 3,000 rpm to 5,000 rpm, or about 40–58 mph, then hard on the brakes down to about 35 mph. As we passed the apex, the car was given partial throttle up to about 40 mph out of the bend; then we accelerated again up to about 58 mph, braked, and repeated. The graph below shows the results of testing for about five minutes of driving under these conditions. The temperature data from both radiators show that the car can handle this type of driving without any issues. Oil temperature under these conditions was approximately 233 degrees Fahrenheit as observed from the stock gauge.


Mishimoto vs. stock radiator inlet and outlet temperature comparison

Heat rejection is approximately equal for the stock and Mishimoto radiators under testing conditions for the first scenario. This is expected due to the governing laws of thermodynamics, i.e., energy output of the engine into the cooling system equals heat rejected from the radiator when under steady state. Figure 9 shows a difference of approximately 200 Btu/min, or 6% between the stock and Mishimoto radiators. The difference in total error is due to a combination of lack of testing repeatability and lack of sensor accuracy.


Mishimoto vs. Stock radiator heat rejection

Scenario One Results

Both the stock and Mishimoto radiators were able to stabilize temperatures under the conditions stated for this scenario. One important difference to note is the reduction in the engine output temperature. For the stock radiator the engine output temperature was 195 degrees Fahrenheit; for the Mishimoto radiator the engine output temperature was 185 degrees Fahrenheit. Using this information we can calculate the air-to-boil (ATB) temperature. The ATB temperature is the maximum ambient air temperature reached before the engine outlet temperature of coolant will boil, which would result in overheating and engine failure (see Figure 10). For scenario one, the outside ambient temperature would have to be 140***730;F for the stock radiator to overheat, while the Mishimoto radiator could allow an ambient temperature of 150 degrees Fahrenheit before overheating.


Air-to-boil temperature

Track Scenario Two

First we drove a few laps around the track to get the engine and tires warmed up. Next, we drove the car at full speed using only 3rd gear for 7–10 minutes, just as we did for scenario one. Since the track is an oval we can explain the details of a lap fairly easily. For a typical lap under scenario two, Mishimoto engineers chose to run the car in 2nd gear for the entire lap. The straight section would see an acceleration from 4,200 rpm to 7,800 rpm, or about 40–62 mph, and then hard on the brakes down to about 35 mph. As we passed the apex the car was given partial throttle up to about 40 mph out of the bend; we then accelerated again up to about 62 mph, braked, and repeated. The graph below shows the results for about five minutes of driving under these conditions. This driving condition was extreme for the car, so we ended the test after about four minutes of driving. Oil temperatures for the supercharger were extremely hot, and oil began to seep and bubble from the oil pump. Engine oil temperatures were approximately in the 255-260 degree Fahrenheit range.


Mishimoto vs. stock radiator outlet temperature comparison


Mishimoto vs. stock radiator inlet and outlet temperatures

Inlet temperatures for both the stock and Mishimoto radiators were 2-4 degrees Fahrenheit hotter than the respective outlet temperatures. Although the temperature difference between the inlet and outlet was slightly less than in the first test, flow rates of the water pump increased with engine speed, and the heat rejection for both radiators resulted in about the same rate as seen in Figure 9.

Scenario Two Results

Heat rejection for both the stock and Mishimoto radiators seemed lower than what the engineers expected. After some calculations the engineers found that the ideal heat rejection from the stock and Mishimoto radiators for both scenarios would be around 6200 Btu/min and 7400 Btu/min, respectively. This Q ideal or theoretical number would indicate perfect conditions, for example: airflow through the radiator core would equal the vehicle speed, and flow of both the coolant and the incoming air would be distributed equally throughout the core. Engineers concluded that the losses from the FMIC, AC condenser, SC oil cooler, pusher fan, and other shrouding lowered the incoming airflow to the radiator by a significant amount. According to the test data, average measured track speed for one lap was 42 mph. Engineers found that airflow was 19 mph instead of the ideal 42 mph. Other losses came from the presence of the FMIC and oil cooler, which increased the incoming air temperatures that enter the radiator, resulting in a lower rate of heat rejection for the radiator.

One additional note worth mentioning is the recovery time of the radiator after the hot lap. Immediately after the test we began cool-down laps by cruising around the track at about 40 mph to cool down the engine. For the stock radiator we needed about 2–3 minutes before the temperatures would return to about 190 degrees Fahrenheit, while the Mishimoto radiator needed only about 1.5 minutes. In hindsight, engineers should have recorded rather than merely observed this information. If we test the radiator again, we will be sure to gather this additional information.

Overall Conclusions

Mishimoto engineers calculated that the test vehicle heat output was 3,700 Btu/min for scenario one and 5,500 Btu/min for scenario two. In scenario one the 550 hp car was able to maintain temperatures with the coolant, engine oil, and supercharger oil. In scenario two the vehicle was not able to maintain a stable condition. The engine output (5,500 Btu/min) was higher than the radiator heat rejection (3,600 Btu/min). This means that it would be only a matter of time before the car would overheat. For scenario two, the supercharger oil and soon-to-be engine oil overheated before the radiator did. Scenario two was an extreme environment when factoring in all the conditions: extra 250 hp vehicle, FMIC, supercharger oil cooler, and very low-speed track. (Note: This is why oval track racecars use such large radiators.) Mishimoto engineers calculated that the Mishimoto and stock radiators would have needed wind speeds of 32 and 36 mph, respectively, to reach the front of the radiator so that scenario two conditions could be maintained.

The Mishimoto radiator is designed for higher speeds but still outperformed the stock radiator in all tests, proving that the newly designed Mishimoto radiator will be an improvement over the stock radiator under all conditions. (Note: Performance will vary depending on vehicle modifications, environment, racing environment, and coolant type.)

Special thanks to Precision-Sport Industries located in Winter Park, Florida, for donor vehicle and shop space.

Kevin McCardle
Product Engineer

Project Conclusion

Now that we had successful testing results for our radiator and fan setup, it was time to follow-up with our original goals and be sure we did not miss anything with this project.

Primary Goals

1. Provide a direct-fit performance replacement radiator that functions with the factory mechanical fan.

The Mishimoto radiator bolts into the factory radiator position and functions perfectly with all factory equipment, including all engine bay shrouding. Use of both mechanical and electrical fans is possible with this radiator design.

2. Radiator should have larger core capacity and thickness compared to the OEM unit.

We made a ton of improvements with the Mishimoto radiator compared to the factory unit. Check out some major points below!
  • Coolant surface area increased by 32%
  • Air surface area increased by 15%
  • Coolant capacity increased by 25%
  • Heat rejection increased by 6%

3. Collect proven performance data on a high-horsepower vehicle under extreme driving conditions.

We traveled to Orlando, Florida, and collected hot-weather testing data on a 550 whp supercharged BMW M3.

Secondary Goal – Offer an electric fan conversion kit, and test the results of mechanical fan removal on power output.

Although this project is still being developed, we have a general plan for the electric fan conversion. We have proven the effectiveness of our fan-mount system for both cooling and power output.



Well, that’s it folks! Development has concluded for this radiator and we are on to the next project. Keep an eye out for testing of that oil cooler you saw in one of the earlier images. Thanks for following along and feel free to reply with any questions or comments.

Additionally, we are running a Group Buy for this radiator. Please visit the link below to sign up!

http://www.mishimoto.com/e46-radiator-deposit.html

Also, all of our product build threads can be found on our engineering blog at the link below. If you have some spare time, swing by and let me know what you think.

http://engineering.mishimoto.com/

Thanks
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Old 05-03-2014, 10:04 PM   #3
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Great. Now we need a rad for the non M owners.
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Old 05-04-2014, 05:42 AM   #4
Megalocnus
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Originally Posted by RockLee View Post
Great. Now we need a rad for the non M owners.
+1
An alluminum radiator with built in expansion tank that can fit the stock non M manual E46 electric fan.
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Old 05-04-2014, 06:00 AM   #5
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Sorry if i Missed it but what will the price be?
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:41 AM   #6
zacjones
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Originally Posted by Megalocnus View Post
+1
An alluminum radiator with built in expansion tank that can fit the stock non M manual E46 electric fan.
Agreed. I'd be in for one of those without hesitation. I'd love to improve the reliability and performance of my cooling system without breaking the bank.

The M3 already has several aluminum radiator options -- why doesn't anyone make one that actually fits our e46 non-M cars? (other than the $1k plus zionsville)

Mishimoto-are there plans to build one for us non-M owners?
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:06 AM   #7
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Lol. Not only is the s54 a MUCH better engine. It also gets MANY aftermarket options for cooling reliability AND they are cheaper than our ONLY option.. This is the final kick in the balls for me. Please make an aluminum radiator for the non M.
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Old 05-04-2014, 01:26 PM   #8
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are you planning to have a group buy for this?
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:08 AM   #9
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Interested, how much?
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:39 AM   #10
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Great. Now we need a rad for the non M owners.
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Originally Posted by Megalocnus View Post
+1
An alluminum radiator with built in expansion tank that can fit the stock non M manual E46 electric fan.
Everything they said!
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:17 AM   #11
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Price?
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:20 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by RockLee View Post
Great. Now we need a rad for the non M owners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalocnus View Post
+1
An alluminum radiator with built in expansion tank that can fit the stock non M manual E46 electric fan.

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Originally Posted by zacjones View Post
Agreed. I'd be in for one of those without hesitation. I'd love to improve the reliability and performance of my cooling system without breaking the bank.

The M3 already has several aluminum radiator options -- why doesn't anyone make one that actually fits our e46 non-M cars? (other than the $1k plus zionsville)

Mishimoto-are there plans to build one for us non-M owners?
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Lol. Not only is the s54 a MUCH better engine. It also gets MANY aftermarket options for cooling reliability AND they are cheaper than our ONLY option.. This is the final kick in the balls for me. Please make an aluminum radiator for the non M.
Thanks for the suggestions guys! We have actually discussed this particular project a few times. Sounds like this is something that we should pursue based on the number of vehicles this would fit and the interest we have seen. I will speak with a few folks and see if we move forward with some R&D in the near future.

Any other non-M or M related products that you guys see a need for? Replacement components? Upgrading cooling components?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavidm3 View Post
are you planning to have a group buy for this?
Yes! We have a GB going on in the thread below. Let me know if you have any questions.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1036089

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Levim9 View Post
Interested, how much?
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Originally Posted by Patton323I View Post
Everything they said!
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Originally Posted by M5chas View Post
Price?
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Originally Posted by BDUB328I View Post
Sorry if i Missed it but what will the price be?
Check out the GB above! We are offering the radiator at $495 + $20 shipping within the USA.

Let me know if I can answer any questions about the product, GB, or testing!

Thanks
-John
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:54 AM   #13
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Pre-order bought!
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:46 PM   #14
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Pre-order bought!
Great! Thanks David.
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:28 PM   #15
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A radiator kit with a fan shroud that incorporates the stock e-fan on non-M E46 and an aluminum expansion tank would be nice!
I have a supercharged ZHP, 330i with the twinscrew setup from ESS, pushing 400HP, and luckily I haven't had any issues with the stock radiator, however I did have to replace a cracked expansion tank already. My car has 130k miles and I track the car twice a year and also run several autocross events.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:00 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by RockLee View Post
Great. Now we need a rad for the non M owners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalocnus View Post
+1
An alluminum radiator with built in expansion tank that can fit the stock non M manual E46 electric fan.
For the love of all that's good and pure in this world, yes! An aluminum radiator + expansion tank at a reasonable price point is sorely missing for us non-M owners...
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:19 PM   #17
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What about us the ones who bought the first version and we have overheating problems? Do we get to trade (warranty) it in for the updated one? By overheating I meant that the temp goes up past 3/4 and the car gets super sluggish even with everything new hoses and fan clutch.
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Old 05-05-2014, 09:10 PM   #18
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please please make one for us non-M owners
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:33 AM   #19
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Any other non-M or M related products that you guys see a need for? Replacement components? Upgrading cooling components?
The entire scrub cooling system.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:38 AM   #20
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The entire scrub cooling system.
Or maybe one radiator that can have the option of having a plastic expansion tank (If the cost of the "all in one" radiator becomes too pricy.) But the metal expansion tank is a better idea.

The non m e46 is becoming the next e36, especially with the new spec e46 series that's underway. (All we need really is an iron block for the boosted owners.)

Mishimoto, please open a thread for us non M owners so we can ask other people their opinions.)
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