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Old 06-11-2014, 08:42 AM   #81
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Lawl.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:31 PM   #82
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I like using only one data point and basing my entire opinion off it, too
The single data point is one example of instances that occur thousands of times a year.


Ad I don't base my entire opinion off it or those anyway.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:40 PM   #83
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Just saw an article about how Obama suggested a total ban on automatic and semi-automatic weapons.

See this is the problem we as gun owners face and have with this nonsense. I, and many like me, think we have a problem. And we're more than willing to work on both sides of the aisle to find a solution. IF THE SOLUTION MAKES SENSE AND WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

How many times since the 1940s has a legally purchased fully automatic weapon been used in a crime? I'll give you a clue...it's like twice. In almost 80 years. So why in the fvck would the POTUS specifically target them and target the citizens who own them? Because it's emotion, not based on logic or statistics and it makes no rational sense at all.

Ban semi-automatics? There's tens of millions of them, and the USSC made it clear that since they're in common use and are chosen most commonly for self defense that they're protected under the constitution.

Our illustrious leader suggested a gun buyback like Australia might be appropriate. Really? How does the government pay for that? Even if you could get gun owners to agree to such a thing, they wouldn't accept a dime less than full value for their guns. Some semi automatics are worth thousands, some machine guns worth hundreds of thousands. How does the government propose to be able to fully compensate gun owners for their equipment. We're talking billions and billions of dollars here, and you know that gun owners aren't going to be too pleased with higher taxes.

So those ideas are positively ludicrous. But he's gotta drive more of a wedge between gun grabbers and gun owners with those ideas.


So we're left with what exactly?

Background checks? Wouldn't have stopped most of what has been happening recently. California had all that stuff in place and that kid got them anyway. California failed to report the mental health data to NICS that would have blocked the sale. That's CA's fault, not that of gun owners.

Bans on magazines holding more than 10 rounds? There are millions in circulation. How do you ban that? You can ban new sale, but that's not going to have a measurable impact for decades. These things last a long time. Registration? Not gonna happen, gun owners will draw the line at any form of registration.

Registration? See above, though again it wouldn't have helped.

Waiting periods? These guys set up attacks for months...waiting periods mean nothing in these attacks.

Limits on the amount of guns you can have? What sense does that make? These guys usually only use one or two anyway.

Limits on ammunition? Again, these guys stockpile for weeks or months. So even if you could limit it to X amount per purchase, it doesn't stop the stockpiling.

Mandatory safe storage of all firearms? Interesting idea, but how do you enforce it? How do you know what they have? Registration? Nice try...



So what net effect do these laws have? When combined? I estimate not much. Except to drive gun owners wild with a lot of the inconveniences associated with them.

Which means you have to start looking for other solutions. And those have been proposed and we've seen some in action have serious effect. Put armed guards in every school in America. We're asking kids and teachers to come to school unarmed and defenseless and then not putting a system in place to safeguard them, either with metal detectors and security checkpoints or a guard or two on site who can meet force with force and at least delay the attacker. We've seen that when confronted with armed resistance, these lunatics usually give up and kill themselves. This is a real solution to the problem, it won't stop the attacks completely, but it's certainly a deterrent and something that can reduce their effect.

Expand NICS and increase reporting to it. That system is a joke at the moment. Increase prosecutions of those who lie on the 4473s. I agree that this system is flawed and needs to be rectified.

We gun owners aren't opposed to everything I don't think. Some are, some aren't. What we are all opposed to though is this system of constantly giving something away, getting nothing in return, and then finding out the proposal didn't work and another one comes along.

Let's say everyone agrees to universal background checks. But down the line, we find they aren't making much of a dent as many suspect. What next? This incremental gun control only leads to confiscation at some point. And we as gun owners aren't comfortable with that, despite the bleating from gun grabbers that suggest that confiscation will never happen, it's not being proposed, etc. The writing is on the wall for all to see.

As a balance, in order for gun owners to "compromise," we want something in return for voting this stuff in. What we get in return helps maintain a balance of gun owner rights and privileges and keep confiscation off the table. A compromise is a give and take; you give something up for getting something in return. Gun grabbers and the President have been suggesting their solutions over and over again and keep reaming gun owners for not compromising. There is no compromise; we have gotten nothing in return at all. When one side takes and gives nothing back, it's not a compromise.

So for instance, we gun owners might be willing to vote for universal background checks if we got national carry licenses in return. Under national carry, a concealed carry permit issued by one state would be good in every other state and locality in the union. Full faith and credit, just like drivers licenses. But when this was proposed in congress during the Manchin-Toomey talks last year, Chuck Schumer got up and ranted and raved about it and demanded it not be included as part of the proposal.



At what point are we going to come together on this stuff and realize that compromise is good for both if it's the correct compromise?

This proposal comes up in congress tomorrow and I personally write to every congressman in my state to support it. I might even visit Tallahassee or Washington:

Universal background checks
Mandatory waiting period on all firearms purchases, including rifles, except in cases where a concealed carry permit is held.
Armed guards and security in every k-12 school in America.
Increased funding for NICS, mandatory reporting for all states, severe punishments for failed reporting.
National Concealed Carry.

THAT proposal would make a difference and that proposal would, I bet, pass. Or at least, most gun owners will pass it I think,
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:11 PM   #84
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^^^ /thread. Well said.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:22 PM   #85
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:25 PM   #86
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"An as-yet unidentified school shooter attacked Reynolds High School in Portland Oregon today, killing at least one student. It was the 74th school shooting since Adam Lanza's infamous assault on Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut — and, as this map shows, they've happened all over the country."

This is all over my facebook today with the paranoid new mothers displaying their ignorance publicly. FTR

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“fewer than 7 of the 74 school shootings listed by #Everytown are real mass shootings.”

Worst among the shootings included on the Everytown map, according to Johnson, is one that occurred in self-defense at Eastern Florida State University.

Another shooting included on the map was one related to drug-dealing, and not a case of a gunman seeking to wreck random havoc on a school.

One 2013 shooting in San Leandro, Cali. was related to a dice game, Johnson found.

Others included a public suicide, shootings related to gang activity, a dispute over a Nintendo Wii video game console and a lovers’ spat involving a high school principal.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:27 PM   #87
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Phew, good to know that they're not actual shootings. They never took place.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:12 PM   #88
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Phew, good to know that they're not actual shootings. They never took place.
You can't even acknowledge that it is an intentionally misleading statistic? Sorry dude, the janitor killing himself after hours isn't a "school shooting". If the anti-gun nuts are so confident in their position, why resort to easily debunked lies?

Even CNN is calling out this BS

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us...ber/index.html
A closer look: How many school shootings since Newtown?
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