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Old 06-17-2014, 01:42 PM   #1
SuperFan86
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Building home. Home Theater Wiring Question

I'm in the process of building my first house. The electrical company is doing my surround sound wiring, but I have to figure out the locations for everything and work out with them how they will route my home-run.

My plan is to mount the TV over the fireplace and have a home run to a pantry in another part of the house where I'll have my amp, cable box, and electronics.

The builder says that due to the distance and location of the pantry they are going to wire 4 cat6 cables for the home-run rather than doing a pipe. I'm not familiar with this, but apparently you can easily convert that to HDMI?

I'll have 5 speaker locations prewired. Currently I have floor standing speakers, but I'm undecided on if I should convert to integrated ceiling, wall, a combination of the 2, or keep the free standing speakers. I was even considering the front channels as free standing and then doing wall/ceiling for the rear channel due to the openness in the back of the room.

Any advice would be appreciated.

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Old 06-17-2014, 02:42 PM   #2
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Convert the rears to either in wall/ceiling or wall/ceiling mounted on brackets. Having floor standings in the rear isn't worth it and they get in the way. Keep them for the fronts. Center channel is up to you if you want in wall or external or just build a cubby hole in the wall for it to sit in and cover the front with a speaker fabric panel.

What's the distance from the fireplace to the pantry? The Cat6 cable is much cheaper than HDMI cable for doing long runs and that's why they want to do that. I'm not sure how to convert it on the ends though.

Last edited by SamDoe1; 06-17-2014 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:47 PM   #3
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Distance is prob about 20-25 feet of diagonal distance.

So floor standing for the front. I like that. Would the rears do better as in-wall on the left and right walls or in-ceiling?

For the front should I have the speakers spread as far as possible and caddy corner them or have them flanking the fireplace?


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Convert the rears to either in wall/ceiling or wall/ceiling mounted on brackets. Having floor standings in the rear isn't worth it and they get in the way. Keep them for the fronts. Center channel is up to you if you want in wall or external or just build a cubby hole in the wall for it to sit in and cover the front with a speaker fabric panel.

What's the distance from the fireplace to the pantry? The Cat6 cable is much cheaper than HDMI cable for doing long runs and that's why they want to do that. I'm not sure how to convert it on the ends though.
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:49 PM   #4
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^ IMO, I'd do ceilings and spread the fronts out as much as possible but someone like GlockMan can answer that question better than I can. For the rears, how far are the side and back walls from the couch?

20-25ft isn't much, is that the straight distance or the actual cable length? You can get a 50ft HDMI cord for ~$40 on monoprice. I thought the run was like 100ft+ or something.
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:37 PM   #5
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run two name brand hdmi cables that are in wall rated.

good hdmi can run 75 - 100 ft.

run 14/4 to each speaker or at least 16/4 to the rears.

14/4 and 16/4 is not twice as much as 14/2 or 16/2 and the labor is the same.

run 2 RG59 and 2 RG6 with the hdmi

run 2 cat5 for IR control as well


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Old 06-17-2014, 08:24 PM   #6
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run two name brand hdmi cables that are in wall rated.

good hdmi can run 75 - 100 ft.

run 14/4 to each speaker or at least 16/4 to the rears.

14/4 and 16/4 is not twice as much as 14/2 or 16/2 and the labor is the same.

run 2 RG59 and 2 RG6 with the hdmi

run 2 cat5 for IR control as well


JMO
The surround sound is 5.1 channel with outlets wherever and a home-run from the fireplace to an end point. I'll verify the cable they are using for audio to the 5 channels.

Originally the run was supposed to be a pipe, but now they want to do a bundle of 4 cat6 cables instead and then convert 1 to HDMI for me and use the other ones for the IR receiver and whatever else. Should I demand they use a real HDMI cable?


What are your thoughts on using left and right rear in-wall facing inward for the rear and free standing tower speakers for the front? Should I wire them in the corners of the room?
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:21 AM   #7
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The surround sound is 5.1 channel with outlets wherever and a home-run from the fireplace to an end point. I'll verify the cable they are using for audio to the 5 channels.

Originally the run was supposed to be a pipe, but now they want to do a bundle of 4 cat6 cables instead and then convert 1 to HDMI for me and use the other ones for the IR receiver and whatever else. Should I demand they use a real HDMI cable?


What are your thoughts on using left and right rear in-wall facing inward for the rear and free standing tower speakers for the front? Should I wire them in the corners of the room?
I would use HDMI. Like I said, a good quality cable will run the distance.

I would do in ceiling for rear not side wall facing in walls.

Front speakers should not be in corners.

If you want your equipment in a closet, dont home run wiring to fireplace.

The fireplace is just another location like your speakers.
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:08 AM   #8
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I'd like to chime in and say CAT6 or CAT7 (depending on costs). You only do this once. Anything you think you could ever possibly want down the road, wire it now. I would at a min do CAT6 though. NOT CAT5. And 14/4 gauge for speaker wire as glockman suggested.

4 ceiling speakers for the rears and use your floorstanding speakers for front L&R and center speakers (which produce 80+% of the sound anyways). Running wires after the house is built...sucks. And I would use a conduit pipe to the main closet where everything is being run.

Also, dual CAT6 to every room (no closets or bathrooms I guess) (at least, maybe quad CAT6).
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
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I would use HDMI. Like I said, a good quality cable will run the distance.
What defines a good quality cable? Being a digital signal, how is one different from any other?

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I'd like to chime in and say CAT6 or CAT7 (depending on costs). You only do this once. Anything you think you could ever possibly want down the road, wire it now. I would at a min do CAT6 though. NOT CAT5. And 14/4 gauge for speaker wire as glockman suggested.

4 ceiling speakers for the rears and use your floorstanding speakers for front L&R and center speakers (which produce 80+% of the sound anyways). Running wires after the house is built...sucks. And I would use a conduit pipe to the main closet where everything is being run.

Also, dual CAT6 to every room (no closets or bathrooms I guess) (at least, maybe quad CAT6).
What would you use dual/quad CAT6 wires for these days? How do you terminate the CAT6 end to HDMI?
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Old 06-19-2014, 03:42 PM   #10
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What defines a good quality cable? Being a digital signal, how is one different from any other?



What would you use dual/quad CAT6 wires for these days? How do you terminate the CAT6 end to HDMI?
Not going to get into the classic HDMI debate, but there are better cables and YES they CAN work better DEPENDING on the application.

Just because something is digital does NOT mean that signal can not be loss. HDMI may still work with something like 90% of received information, but it is not as good as 100% would be.

In addition to build quality itself (and chance of damage in a wall or attic), the longer the cable, the more chance of problems.

In many cases there will be no noticeable quality difference, but that is usually on short cables THAT WORK from the beginning.

Google HDMI headroom, bitrate, data-recovery, 22AWG vs 28AWG, etc
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:59 PM   #11
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Not going to get into the classic HDMI debate, but there are better cables and YES they CAN work better DEPENDING on the application.

Just because something is digital does NOT mean that signal can not be loss. HDMI may still work with something like 90% of received information, but it is not as good as 100% would be.

In addition to build quality itself (and chance of damage in a wall or attic), the longer the cable, the more chance of problems.

In many cases there will be no noticeable quality difference, but that is usually on short cables THAT WORK from the beginning.

Google HDMI headroom, bitrate, data-recovery, 22AWG vs 28AWG, etc
No debate, just trying to learn. I understand that there will be signal loss but as long as the 1's and 0's get there, does it matter what quality the signal is? As in, if the signal has lost 75% of it's strength but is still delivering the data, wouldn't that still be just as good as a 100% signal?

What would you recommend as a good HDMI cable?
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:58 AM   #12
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No debate, just trying to learn. I understand that there will be signal loss but as long as the 1's and 0's get there, does it matter what quality the signal is? As in, if the signal has lost 75% of it's strength but is still delivering the data, wouldn't that still be just as good as a 100% signal?

What would you recommend as a good HDMI cable?
I use AudioQuest.

Some data can be lost completely and still create a picture. Think about the equivalent of a signal to noise ratio, but instead of noise you have nothing. Basically the equipment guesses what is missing.

More importantly some long cables just dont work with all equipment or break easily.
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Old 06-20-2014, 03:12 PM   #13
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Fair enough but would you be able to actually tell the difference between an AudioQuest cable and an Amazon Basics cable?

Edit: Just looked up prices, fvck that. If the $100 AQ cable can produce an image that's 10x as good as the one for $10 I'll go eat a shoe.

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Old 06-21-2014, 08:12 AM   #14
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Fair enough but would you be able to actually tell the difference between an AudioQuest cable and an Amazon Basics cable?

Edit: Just looked up prices, fvck that. If the $100 AQ cable can produce an image that's 10x as good as the one for $10 I'll go eat a shoe.
That $100 cable may save someone a $1000 service call.

It is all in perspective. $100 cables are nothing when you are spending $10k+ on a HT system. It is all retaliative.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:17 AM   #15
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That $100 cable may save someone a $1000 service call.

It is all in perspective. $100 cables are nothing when you are spending $10k+ on a HT system. It is all retaliative.
Thanks for all the input so far. I really appreciate the help.

My current system is wired with 3 to 8 foot Monoprice cables, but I'm not going to risk running anything but quality through the walls of my house. Do it once, do it night. The cost of redoing drywall isn't worth trying to save a few hundred bucks today.

I still don't fully understand how the Cat6 is going to allow me to do what I want. The TV will need 1 HDMI cable run to the closet and 1 wire to connect my IR blaster back to the main system. The installer claims that he will use 4 cat6 cables in lieu of a pipe from the TV to the closet to allow me to accomplish that and have the option to convert them later for expansion. The diagonal run from the center of the fireplace to the middle of the closet is going to be about 18 feet wall to wall. I've already been told that my home run location has too many angles to allow them to run a home-run conduit.

I guess I need to know what I should expect from a quality perspective. I'm doing a semi-custom home, so the price for the install is a $700 line item for the 5.1 wiring and a home run. (I would have done it myself, but the company absolutely wouldn't allow it). At that price, should I be expecting them to use HDMI and whatever gauge speaker wire I want? I'm considering just taking what I can get and then coming in before the drywall goes up and adding more to make sure I'm future-proofed.

I'll be using this type of product to control my components
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:53 AM   #16
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$700 is not outragous and you really dont have a choice.

The conversion uses baluns. Some installers love them, some hate them.

I would ask for quality HDMI and add some RG59 and RG6 also.

What wire are they using?

Are you dealing with the home theater installer or just picking a package with the builder?

Any decent installer should give you many options and run anything you want (for a price.)

JMO.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:19 AM   #17
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$700 is not outragous and you really dont have a choice.

The conversion uses baluns. Some installers love them, some hate them.

I would ask for quality HDMI and add some RG59 and RG6 also.

What wire are they using?

Are you dealing with the home theater installer or just picking a package with the builder?

Any decent installer should give you many options and run anything you want (for a price.)

JMO.
The price hurt because my good friend is an electrician and offered to do it for me as a gift. I was able to get them to knock $200 off what I paid before signing, so I feel a little better about the value now.

The work is subcontracted out to a local company. I get to work with him independently of the actual house build. I have been told that he is excellent and will worth with me to make it work.

The installer said that he would run cat6 and then come back and convert to HDMI, at an additional charge I assume. I think I'd rather have HDMI and be done with it.

Why do I need RG-6 run? The fireplace comes with a cable jack, outlet, and cat6 (no clue where it terminates) as part of the home.
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Old 06-24-2014, 10:49 AM   #18
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The price hurt because my good friend is an electrician and offered to do it for me as a gift. I was able to get them to knock $200 off what I paid before signing, so I feel a little better about the value now.

The work is subcontracted out to a local company. I get to work with him independently of the actual house build. I have been told that he is excellent and will worth with me to make it work.

The installer said that he would run cat6 and then come back and convert to HDMI, at an additional charge I assume. I think I'd rather have HDMI and be done with it.

Why do I need RG-6 run? The fireplace comes with a cable jack, outlet, and cat6 (no clue where it terminates) as part of the home.
because it is 7 cents per foot, thats why!
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:50 AM   #19
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The joys of hdmi baluns... can range from $50 to easily $500 per device. I honestly didn't run rg6 in my addition I'm building right now. I do have conduit drops to all places I might need one at some point though.

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Old 07-10-2014, 11:48 AM   #20
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IMO, having a fireplace under the TV ruins any setup you might have. When I have to look up for 2 hours to watch a movie, it really blows. Take out the useless and archaic fireplace and put your TV there.
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