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Old 06-26-2014, 09:44 AM   #41
bimmerfan08
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600k in startup costs
200k in equipment
Payroll
Malpractice insurance
high dollar supplies every month.

Dentists roll with 70% overhead.

I didn't factor in the average dentist in 2014 takes on 400k in student loans.

Don't forget the continued education costs associated with giving these procedures(15,000 for IV sedation, seminars, you name it). Take medicaid? ~$20 payout to dentist per filling. PPO(insurance) takes about 30% of all procedures.

What you leave out is that the treatment plan is optional and you or your family didn't need a bridge,crown, or implant. Partial and full dentures are cheap.

Hatred of the dentist will cause problems, feeling ripped off will push you towards a bad decision(and pain), you beg me to pull the tooth(I do for a whopping $100) you hate the look of it but we needed the base of that tooth to make a bridge and now you want to sue because I have to place an implant for $2500.

My best friend is an ER doc and yes he saves lives. He bills $12,000 per hour for his services or face time. That doesn't include a procedure, medicine, or anything. On the flip side He's trained for everything from neurology to amputations and when you need him no amount of money is too much.
Sources for those dollar amounts?
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:47 AM   #42
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Sources for those dollar amounts?
Maybe.... he is one of them.....
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:03 AM   #43
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Oh you mad!

If he knew what to do differently, why didn't he do it right the first time? We always infer that anyone that is more knowledgeable than us is always correct, when in fact intelligent people makes mistakes too. By engaging in a conversation with him, he not only sees my point of view, but also sees his and can confirm whether or not he's doing the right thing.

My original beef with the guy was when I got on the subject of COF, he tried to BS that he knew all about it, when clearly he did not understand the subject. My issue was with him BSing a topic we were discussing.
Every person is different. Maybe something about your tooth made it not work the first time, but he thought the original method just wasn't done properly. Maybe the third time he had to conclude that it needed a different method.

Why the **** were you talking about fertilizer with a dentist?
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:04 AM   #44
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Sources for those dollar amounts?
Those sound about right. A college roomie of mine was going to be a dentist and was going to practice to take over a family friend's practice. He said that made it so much easier. Go look up the cost of an oral X-ray machine and a few dentist's chairs and air equipment...
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:08 AM   #45
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600k in startup costs
200k in equipment
Payroll
Malpractice insurance
high dollar supplies every month.

Dentists roll with 70% overhead.

I didn't factor in the average dentist in 2014 takes on 400k in student loans.

Don't forget the continued education costs associated with giving these procedures(15,000 for IV sedation, seminars, you name it). Take medicaid? ~$20 payout to dentist per filling. PPO(insurance) takes about 30% of all procedures.

What you leave out is that the treatment plan is optional and you or your family didn't need a bridge,crown, or implant. Partial and full dentures are cheap.

Hatred of the dentist will cause problems, feeling ripped off will push you towards a bad decision(and pain), you beg me to pull the tooth(I do for a whopping $100) you hate the look of it but we needed the base of that tooth to make a bridge and now you want to sue because I have to place an implant for $2500.

My best friend is an ER doc and yes he saves lives. He bills $12,000 per hour for his services or face time. That doesn't include a procedure, medicine, or anything. On the flip side He's trained for everything from neurology to amputations and when you need him no amount of money is too much.
I understand the startup costs and such but every business has that. Same for overhead. I understand that they deserve a high salary for what they do but it's not as in depth as a medical doctor and when I visit my dentist, I see her for all of 2 minutes in the course of a routine exam. My insurance pays for it all so I don't care but that's still crazy to charge $300+ for a routine exam where I see a dentist for 2 minutes and the whole exam is an hour. So you're telling me that the pay for a hygenist, the tools (most are not disposable anyway), the dentist salary, and the bag of goodies at the end costs $210 an hour(70% overhead cost)? I doubt it.

ER doctors do not charge or get paid $12k an hour. Sorry but your buddy is lying to you. An ER visit even with a CT scan at the high end of the price spectrum is far, far less than that.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:11 AM   #46
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Why is a $210/hr rate for a dentist not believable, but relatively unskilled labor from a mechanic at $100/hr is believable? What is the acceptable rate to you? Breaking exactly even?

An ER visit with a CT scan overnight will run you over $10,000. I know because I sent a friend there in a car accident once.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:16 AM   #47
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Why the **** were you talking about fertilizer with a dentist?
What?
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:19 AM   #48
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Why is a $210/hr rate for a dentist not believable, but relatively unskilled labor from a mechanic at $100/hr is believable? What is the acceptable rate to you? Breaking exactly even?

An ER visit with a CT scan overnight will run you over $10,000. I know because I sent a friend there in a car accident once.
I think that the $100/hr rate for a mechanic is insanity too when the engineers that designed and built the car get paid less.

Where did you go to get that CT scan? When I had one at the ER, the bill for the scan was $2k and the visit was $3k (including drugs, doctor time, disposable medical equipment, and durable medical equipment). I know for a fact the cost of the medical equipment is very, very over inflated but whatever.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:21 AM   #49
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Sources for those dollar amounts?

Wasn't quoting sources.

I paid 15,000 for IV sedation as does all of my fellow graduates.

Average cost of tuition is 241,097 and people have to eat and pay bills(figure 30k or more a year). I'm 400k deep.

600k is what it costs to buyout an existing practice and as someone who is shopping around I'd call that about average although cheaper practices are out there. They almost always require an equipment upgrade(old analog stuff).

200k is about what it would cost for all new equipment although most dentists wouldn't do so.

The supplies are just what you'd expect in a doctors office (syringes,gloves,etc) plus everything involved in doing dentistry. Sealants, impression materials, drill bits, etc. It adds up to be a large cost per procedure.

Granted most procedures are drill and fill(cavities). Those are relatively cheap procedures and depend on the dentists speed to make the office profitable. Most offices run this way and refer out most cosmetic dentistry out to a specialist.

You'd beg me to do a 5,000 procedure in office once I refer you out to a specialist.

The payouts are the payouts depending on your state medicaid will pay higher or lower. $20 is common for an amalgam filling on a tooth but goes up if you have multiples on the tooth.

PPO insurance is an average of 30% but some higher/some lower. Its up to the dentist to kick out certain PPO's or renegotiate.

Your local dentist is running a business. If he/she could undercut the guy next door by $1,000's because he's overcharging don't you think he would do so.



As far as dental school students not being able to get into med school.

I don't know a single classmate that didn't have the GPA and standardized test scores to get into med school including myself(DAT vs MCAT). DAT is more perceptual ability vs memorization(but has both). Every classmate including myself chose to go to dental school between the two.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:21 AM   #50
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I think that the $100/hr rate for a mechanic is insanity too when the engineers that designed and built the car get paid less.

Where did you go to get that CT scan? When I had one at the ER, the bill for the scan was $2k and the visit was $3k (including drugs, doctor time, disposable medical equipment, and durable medical equipment). I know for a fact the cost of the medical equipment is very, very over inflated but whatever.
The mechanic does not get paid $100/hr...
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Last edited by bimmerfan08; 06-26-2014 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:22 AM   #51
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I think that the $100/hr rate for a mechanic is insanity too when the engineers that designed and built the car get paid less.

Where did you go to get that CT scan? When I had one at the ER, the bill for the scan was $2k and the visit was $3k (including drugs, doctor time, disposable medical equipment, and durable medical equipment). I know for a fact the cost of the medical equipment is very, very over inflated but whatever.
The mechanic doesn't make $100/hr. That's the shop rate. I think it's too high also, but that's what it is and they certainly don't make nearly as much as an engineer with minimal experience.

Vanderbilt.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:31 AM   #52
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The mechanic doesn't make $100/hr. That's the shop rate. I think it's too high also, but that's what it is and they certainly don't make nearly as much as an engineer with minimal experience.

Vanderbilt.
You know new engineers that make $100 an hour?

Please let me know, I'd love to go work there.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:33 AM   #53
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You know new engineers that make $100 an hour?

Please let me know, I'd love to go work there.
Come on over here to grad school and write some research proposals.

You wont be seeing that money in your pocket though.

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Old 06-26-2014, 10:33 AM   #54
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I understand the startup costs and such but every business has that. Same for overhead. I understand that they deserve a high salary for what they do but it's not as in depth as a medical doctor and when I visit my dentist, I see her for all of 2 minutes in the course of a routine exam. My insurance pays for it all so I don't care but that's still crazy to charge $300+ for a routine exam where I see a dentist for 2 minutes and the whole exam is an hour. So you're telling me that the pay for a hygenist, the tools (most are not disposable anyway), the dentist salary, and the bag of goodies at the end costs $210 an hour(70% overhead cost)? I doubt it.

ER doctors do not charge or get paid $12k an hour. Sorry but your buddy is lying to you. An ER visit even with a CT scan at the high end of the price spectrum is far, far less than that.
ER doctors do not make anywhere near 12,000 an hour but the hospital bills you for it. Hospitals are cash cows and even the nonprofits have to expand like crazy to stay that way(cleveland clinic).

Another example is a friend who is a doctor of physical therapy. The hospital bills about $1000 per hour for his services and he makes about $50 of that.

For the most part a standard exam shouldn't cost $300 and they don't but if you include an xray and cleanings then it seems about right.

I pay that hygienist about 70,000 per year, Front desk person who scheduled you, office manager to process your insurance claim and Cleaning equipment.

Assuming I own the office my salary is what is left over.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:33 AM   #55
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The mechanic does not get paid $100/hr...
Neither does the dental hygienist who's spending most of the time with the patient.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:34 AM   #56
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You know new engineers that make $100 an hour?



Please let me know, I'd love to go work there.

No that's not what I said. I said mechanics don't make the shop rate. What they make out of that is far less than someone like me makes.


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Old 06-26-2014, 10:35 AM   #57
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Neither does the dental hygienist who's spending most of the time with the patient.

They don't take any of the risk. The dentist takes all risk.


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Old 06-26-2014, 10:38 AM   #58
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Come on over here to grad school and write some research proposals.

You wont be seeing that money in your pocket though.
When I was at a consulting company, my billing rate was $75 an hour as a brand new entry level engineer. I saw maybe ~$25/hr of that during the top of the recession.

I already went to grad school and wrote a few proposals. Never saw a dime.

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No that's not what I said. I said mechanics don't make the shop rate. What they make out of that is far less than someone like me makes.


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An experienced mechanic will make much more money than a new engineer. A mid range mechanic will probably make just as much. A new mechanic who's just doing oil changes will make less.

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Old 06-26-2014, 10:40 AM   #59
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They don't take any of the risk. The dentist takes all risk.


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Exactly.

PSA If you are stuck in a dead end job not making enough to live then become a dental hygienist.

For 2 years of college they start off around 60k a year and I know a few that make slightly over 100k(commission jobs).

Its a well paying gig but you will work with all kinds of nasty teeth and its female dominated job.
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:41 AM   #60
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ER doctors do not make anywhere near 12,000 an hour but the hospital bills you for it. Hospitals are cash cows and even the nonprofits have to expand like crazy to stay that way(cleveland clinic).

Another example is a friend who is a doctor of physical therapy. The hospital bills about $1000 per hour for his services and he makes about $50 of that.

For the most part a standard exam shouldn't cost $300 and they don't but if you include an xray and cleanings then it seems about right.

I pay that hygienist about 70,000 per year, Front desk person who scheduled you, office manager to process your insurance claim and Cleaning equipment.

Assuming I own the office my salary is what is left over.
This is fair, I apologize I didn't realize the rest of the office staff involved in the process and the cost for their time.

I'm not sure why the cost of care in your area is so high but it's nowhere near that here. PT here is ~$200 an hour and, like I said, I went to the ER with CT scan and it was just over $5k out the door for 2 hours of time.

I didn't pay for any of it, insurance did, but that's the benefits statement I got.
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