Chain and Cams Not Moving - E46Fanatics E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-03-2017, 05:19 PM   #1
michael.s.king
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 25
My Ride: 2001 BMW 325xi
Chain and Cams Not Moving

Went to go do the timing on a crank/no start situation with a 1999 323i.

When I manually crank the engine with a 22mm socket, the pistons move up and down, but the timing chain and cams do not move.

What's broken? lol Thanks guys!
michael.s.king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 05:21 PM   #2
ggenovez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: DFW, tx
Posts: 109
My Ride: 325ci cabrio
cam chain? Could be the sprocket at the crank.

If the pistons are going up and down and the cam is not moving, and of course you tried to start it, then you also want to pull the head and fix the valves that where beaten into the pistons.

I know. now what you wanted to hear.
ggenovez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 05:34 PM   #3
michael.s.king
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 25
My Ride: 2001 BMW 325xi
The chain seems good as in the tension and everything seems nice and tight. If the sprocket on the crank is broken, wouldn't the tension be off?
michael.s.king is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-03-2017, 05:40 PM   #4
ggenovez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: DFW, tx
Posts: 109
My Ride: 325ci cabrio
No. there's a tensioner. what probably happened is either the woodruf key broker or the gear split at the crank.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_1339
ggenovez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 05:47 PM   #5
michael.s.king
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 25
My Ride: 2001 BMW 325xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggenovez View Post
No. there's a tensioner. what probably happened is either the woodruf key broker or the gear split at the crank.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_1339
Yikes.... What does the woodruf key do? Hold the lower sprockets to the crank so when the crank moves so too does the sprockets?

Is it possible to remove the timing chain cover without removing the head?

Thanks for the help man, and if anyone else wants to chime in please do so.
michael.s.king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 05:51 PM   #6
shanneba
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,230
My Ride: 2003 330Ci
Be careful turning the engine if the cams are not moving, you may hit the valves with the pistons.
The cams should turn at half the speed of the crankshaft.


I would also suspect the woodruf key-
03 Woodruff key 5X6,5 2 07119951480 $0.88

There is a chain tensioner-
07 Chain tensioner 1 11311703717 $53.05

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_1339

__________________
Join BMWCCA
Discounts on new and CPO cars.
Most Dealers offer a parts discount
shanneba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 05:53 PM   #7
michael.s.king
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 25
My Ride: 2001 BMW 325xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanneba View Post
Be careful turning the engine if the cams are not moving, you may hit the valves with the pistons.
The cams should turn at half the speed of the crankshaft.


I would also suspect the woodruf key-
03 Woodruff key 5X6,5 2 07119951480 $0.88

There is a chain tensioner-
07 Chain tensioner 1 11311703717 $53.05

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_1339


Would a bad chain tensioner cause this to happen!?
michael.s.king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 06:22 PM   #8
Geo31
Ironman
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Willis, TX, USA
Posts: 3,954
My Ride: 98 M-Z3, 01 325iT
+3 on the woodruf key

That is the only thing I can conceive of that would display all the symptoms you describe.
__________________
George Roffe

Swim: 2.4 Miles
Bike: 112 Miles
Run: 26.2 Miles
Brag: For the rest of your life


Geo31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 06:24 PM   #9
michael.s.king
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 25
My Ride: 2001 BMW 325xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo31 View Post
+3 on the woodruf key

That is the only thing I can conceive of that would display all the symptoms you describe.
What does the woodruf key do? And Do you need to remove the crankshaft to remove the woodruf key? Are there two wooddruff keys?

Thanks for all the help guys!
michael.s.king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 06:28 PM   #10
michael.s.king
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 25
My Ride: 2001 BMW 325xi
Looks like to replace the woodruf key that is on the crankshaft, I can remove the pulley, pull that off, and replace the half moon woodruf key?!
michael.s.king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 07:23 PM   #11
ggenovez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: DFW, tx
Posts: 109
My Ride: 325ci cabrio
the woodruff key keeps the sprocket from spinning and keep the engine timed.

No, you need to remove the timing case off the front of the motor. basicaly, the head comes off, then all the pulleys, harmonic ballancer (or BMW nomenclature of it) then the front of the engine. Tada. $0.05 woodruff key. You'll need to replace the valves in your engine.

E36 M52 engine. Close enough for military work.

ggenovez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 08:29 PM   #12
michael.s.king
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 25
My Ride: 2001 BMW 325xi
UPDATE:

So, upon further inspection the chain is actually loose! I am talking the main chain going from the crank sprocket to the exhaust cam sprocket? Idk if these are the right terms so bare with me haha.

Is this still a sign of a woodruf key? Bad tensioner? Chain is broken or off the crank sprocket? All of the above? Haha thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it....
michael.s.king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 08:40 PM   #13
Kpriest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 350
My Ride: 2005 325i
A borescope through the spark plug holes will tell you if you have valve on piston damage without complete disassembly of the head and front of the engine.




Sent from my iPhone using E46Fanatics
Kpriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 09:20 PM   #14
ewcmr2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 89
My Ride: Many
If chain is loose enough that it doesn't rotate cams it's probably broken. Woodruff key just insures the crank gear rotates with crank.
ewcmr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 11:49 PM   #15
ggenovez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: DFW, tx
Posts: 109
My Ride: 325ci cabrio
So what happens when you turn the engine by hand? As you turn that 22mm bolt, you're turning the crank, which moves the chain and turns the cam. If the chain isnt moving, we're back to the sprocket/ woodruff issue
ggenovez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2017, 10:23 AM   #16
michael.s.king
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 25
My Ride: 2001 BMW 325xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggenovez View Post
So what happens when you turn the engine by hand? As you turn that 22mm bolt, you're turning the crank, which moves the chain and turns the cam. If the chain isnt moving, we're back to the sprocket/ woodruff issue
The chain is a little loose, I can pick it up slightly, but not much. Doesn't feel like it is broken or anything like that.

When I turn the crank by hand the chain does not move what so ever. I get to a point where the crank is hard to turn, really hard, as if it is hitting something, I assume the piston or valve or whatever is hitting one of the cam lobes?

I'm thinking it is the woodruf key unfortunately, but I will check out the chain tensioner just in case. I will throw in the chain tensioner that is part of the timing kit to make it tight and see what happens.
michael.s.king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2017, 11:14 AM   #17
ggenovez
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: DFW, tx
Posts: 109
My Ride: 325ci cabrio
Yeah. Sounds like the woodruff key or the sprocket split.

You can't turn the engine because the piston is hitting the valve.

So what happened? where you driving and it failed?
ggenovez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2017, 11:25 AM   #18
Quadcammer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 286
My Ride: 2000 328i
sounds like a woodruff key or a broken cam gear on the crankshaft.

when you feel the motor get very hard to turn over, thats your pistons hitting open valves. Keep turning the motor and you'll have bent numerous valves.
__________________
Quadcammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2017, 01:53 PM   #19
michael.s.king
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Maine
Posts: 25
My Ride: 2001 BMW 325xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggenovez View Post
Yeah. Sounds like the woodruff key or the sprocket split.

You can't turn the engine because the piston is hitting the valve.

So what happened? where you driving and it failed?
So, bought this as a parts car for some external body parts only (all four doors, hood, front fenders, some interior pieces). It wasn't running when I bought it, but I didn't really care. I figured if I could fix it and get it to run, I could sell it for more as a running car than not.

I don't think the car has been run in a year or two, you should have seen the gas I pulled out of the tank. People have been cranking it over NUMEROUS times by key/starter so I am sure there is some internal damage.

Looks like I will be posting it as parts only.

Thank you everyone for your help!
michael.s.king is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.