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Motorsports & Track Forum
From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast

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Old 04-01-2004, 01:25 PM   #1
SteelBlueXI
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Holding the throttle on a downshift

I'm not sure if what I'm doing is the proper way to do this, so please comment.

When I downshift, I find it easier to not completely release the throttle as I clutch. This means the second I clutch, the revs climb up to where I need them to be, and by that time I'm in the lower gear so I can just release the clutch.

This also helps me deal with DBW throttle more easily too.

I've gotten very good at figuring out exactly how much throttle to give it as I disengage the clutch.

Is this a bad/harmful technique?

Insert $0.02 here. Thanks.
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:33 PM   #2
agent712
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I don't know how hard it is on a car, I practice that technique as well. It sure gives the car a smoother feel as you downshift. Thats what they taught me to do at the Skip Barber racing schools I've gone to.
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:55 PM   #3
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Now you just need to take it one step further and learn to heel/toe.

http://www.se-r.net/general/heel_toe.html
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Old 04-02-2004, 12:22 AM   #4
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heel toe is a pain with the pedal setup, I found. Is there a way to adjust them?
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Old 04-02-2004, 08:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agent712
heel toe is a pain with the pedal setup, I found. Is there a way to adjust them?
Nick
The pedal set-up is excellenet for heel/toe. You just need to work on it more. It feels strange at first, but it eventually becomes easy enough.
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Old 04-02-2004, 01:15 PM   #6
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Yeah, I need to work on it more I guess. Hey, I see you're from Houston. Have you heard of Horsepower Engineering? Its my brothers new speed shop he just started. Just getting things going. He's a graduate from the School of Automotive Machinests out there. You can check them out at www.horsepowerengineering.com. Well, I'm gonna go take my lunch break, gonna try out some heal and toe also .
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Old 04-02-2004, 01:23 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by agent712
Yeah, I need to work on it more I guess. Hey, I see you're from Houston. Have you heard of Horsepower Engineering? Its my brothers new speed shop he just started. Just getting things going. He's a graduate from the School of Automotive Machinests out there. You can check them out at www.horsepowerengineering.com. Well, I'm gonna go take my lunch break, gonna try out some heal and toe also .
Nick
Pretty interesting. I'll have to make a point of checking them out sometime.
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Old 04-02-2004, 02:00 PM   #8
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yeah, if you want a 900 hp BMW give him a call . I know he'll be dealing with a company that makes suspension stuff for our cars. Specifically with the adjustable camber plates. He says they are the best on the market, so we'll see I guess. Oh, and I did some heel/toe stuff while I was in town, seemed easier after doing it a few times, but still will need some practice.
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Old 04-03-2004, 11:59 PM   #9
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i heel/toe sometimes for fun
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Old 04-04-2004, 07:29 AM   #10
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Aren't our pedels close enough together to use half of our feet on the brake and the other half to blip the throttle?

Thats what I do and find it just as effective as heel/toe shifting.
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Old 04-04-2004, 08:38 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by TeKNiC330
Aren't our pedels close enough together to use half of our feet on the brake and the other half to blip the throttle?

Thats what I do and find it just as effective as heel/toe shifting.
You can do that, but it's lazy (no offense) and dangerous. The problem with doing this is you only have your foot on a small portion of the brake pedal. You should practice with having your foot firmly over the whole brake pedal. On the street, just cruising around, it probably doesn't matter much. On the track at 100+mph, braking down to 50mph or less you damned sure want to have the brake fully covered. What happens if you miss the brake?

EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR............ CRASH.

If you are reading this forum I assume you DE or race. Don't develop bad habits. I used to do much like you do and when I went to racing school they drilled it into me to fully cover the brake. Your overwhelmingly first priority is braking. If you miss your downshift you can make the corner and continue to drive. If you miss the brake......

EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR............ CRASH.
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Old 04-05-2004, 07:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo31
You can do that, but it's lazy (no offense) and dangerous. The problem with doing this is you only have your foot on a small portion of the brake pedal. You should practice with having your foot firmly over the whole brake pedal. On the street, just cruising around, it probably doesn't matter much. On the track at 100+mph, braking down to 50mph or less you damned sure want to have the brake fully covered. What happens if you miss the brake?

EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR............ CRASH.

If you are reading this forum I assume you DE or race. Don't develop bad habits. I used to do much like you do and when I went to racing school they drilled it into me to fully cover the brake. Your overwhelmingly first priority is braking. If you miss your downshift you can make the corner and continue to drive. If you miss the brake......

EEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR............ CRASH.
yap 100% agree with you !!
on the track especially braking from 120km to 90 and down shift, u better god damn make sure u brake enough for the turn coming miss downshift not a big problem but miss brake .....

i just got my 330i for about 2 month, i get to say it's freaking hard to do heel/toe with this car. my old car i could do it perfect with no problem on the track, but this one i cant even reach the gas pedal or just normal downshift i cant match rpm....(it's funny my old car red line at 8400rpm this one at 6k rpm ) everytime i look at the rpm gague it's just funny).
i'm thinking may be some after market pedal can do the magic.. !!
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Old 04-08-2004, 11:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelBlueXI
I'm not sure if what I'm doing is the proper way to do this, so please comment.

When I downshift, I find it easier to not completely release the throttle as I clutch. This means the second I clutch, the revs climb up to where I need them to be, and by that time I'm in the lower gear so I can just release the clutch.

This also helps me deal with DBW throttle more easily too.

I've gotten very good at figuring out exactly how much throttle to give it as I disengage the clutch.

Is this a bad/harmful technique?

Insert $0.02 here. Thanks.

called rev matching...a friend of mine has it perfected (and heel toe aswell) and when he drives his car i dont feel nothin...not a shift change or anything haha...its pretty cool actually
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Old 04-08-2004, 11:09 AM   #14
SteelBlueXI
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Originally Posted by ninB
called rev matching...a friend of mine has it perfected (and heel toe aswell) and when he drives his car i dont feel nothin...not a shift change or anything haha...its pretty cool actually
I know what it's called.

My question was whether or not I should be letting off the throttle before disengaging the clutch. It's easier to hold the throttle but I'm worried that the extra friction I'm causing may be bad.
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Old 04-09-2004, 04:11 AM   #15
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BMW's have the perfect pedal setup for heel and toe..practice makes perfect..
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Old 04-19-2004, 12:05 AM   #16
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big feet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower619
BMW's have the perfect pedal setup for heel and toe..practice makes perfect..
actually i kinda wish there was more space between the accelerator and the wall cuz i have big feet and i like to brake with the ball of my foot. so, when the heel comes around it often hits the wall first. then again, with a little bit of practice, i learned to move my foot over a lil more to the left so i can rev match with my heel better. very handy technique if u need to get out of a corner quick and smooth..
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