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Old 04-13-2004, 01:51 AM   #1
pimpn04coupe
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Need help from the pros please! Switching my 2 10s w7's for 1 13w7 after tomroow!

Guys i really need your help, after much confusion, i have decided to go with 1 13w7 as i want louder bass than my 2 10s. And i decided to go ported as well. Right now i have 2 10" w7s in a sealed box with the subs facing toward the front of the car with one of my rear seats folded down ( i have a coupe a bmw 330ci). Now here comes the tricky part.... i am having major doubts right now as if i actually want to go through with it, as my ears are in love with the sound of these subs and how clean they hit. I listen to mostly hip hop, but they sound just amazing wiht techno and everything... nice clean, tight bass... will i lose this when i go to a single 13"w7 in a ported enclosure? Another worry i am having is that there are mixed reviews on how to mount this sub... some poeple say face it forward, some people say face it back. I dont know wat to do... but soem backround info is that the bmw trunk is amazingly sealed off so no bass gets into the cabin if the seats arnt down or if there arnet any openings. Well the designers came up with a wierd type of enclosure. They want it to fire through the ski pass and the ski pass being the port of the box. They basically are gonna build a sealed box and face it toward the front of the car... then seal off the space between the box and the back of my seats to create a sort of enclosure betweem the front of the sealed box and the rear of the seats with a port coming through the back seat ski pass... i am very worried that this isnt the right way to design a box for a 13w7! I thoguht the 13w7 needed a slot type port? Please somebody help me out, i really need some feedback i know alot of you are knowlegable about the topic... i am VERY sorry for the long post i need some suggestions of how to mount this sub in a bmw 330ci and if im gonna lose a significant amouint of sound quality by switchin to this setup....

THANKS VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE, and if anyone wants to persoanlly im me and help me out, my screen name on aol is pimpn04coupe@aol.com thanks!
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Old 04-13-2004, 02:12 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pimpn04coupe
Guys i really need your help, after much confusion, i have decided to go with 1 13w7 as i want louder bass than my 2 10s. And i decided to go ported as well. Right now i have 2 10" w7s in a sealed box with the subs facing toward the front of the car with one of my rear seats folded down ( i have a coupe a bmw 330ci). Now here comes the tricky part.... i am having major doubts right now as if i actually want to go through with it, as my ears are in love with the sound of these subs and how clean they hit. I listen to mostly hip hop, but they sound just amazing wiht techno and everything... nice clean, tight bass... will i lose this when i go to a single 13"w7 in a ported enclosure? Another worry i am having is that there are mixed reviews on how to mount this sub... some poeple say face it forward, some people say face it back. I dont know wat to do... but soem backround info is that the bmw trunk is amazingly sealed off so no bass gets into the cabin if the seats arnt down or if there arnet any openings. Well the designers came up with a wierd type of enclosure. They want it to fire through the ski pass and the ski pass being the port of the box. They basically are gonna build a sealed box and face it toward the front of the car... then seal off the space between the box and the back of my seats to create a sort of enclosure betweem the front of the sealed box and the rear of the seats with a port coming through the back seat ski pass... i am very worried that this isnt the right way to design a box for a 13w7! I thoguht the 13w7 needed a slot type port? Please somebody help me out, i really need some feedback i know alot of you are knowlegable about the topic... i am VERY sorry for the long post i need some suggestions of how to mount this sub in a bmw 330ci and if im gonna lose a significant amouint of sound quality by switchin to this setup....

THANKS VERY MUCH IN ADVANCE, and if anyone wants to persoanlly im me and help me out, my screen name on aol is pimpn04coupe@aol.com thanks!
If you want more volume, then a ported enclosure is usually louder but it really depends on the sub and its characteristics. Slot port, round port, it really doesn't matter but here a rule that is broken may time is that the port Has to be at least 1 diameter length from any side of the box. I'd say before the people install the box, just drive around with it in your trunk (secured to something) and see how it sounds both ways. That is the only true test to see which way sounds better. There are so many variables like the exact placement of the enclosure, the volume of the enclosure, the sub's characteristics and materials used in the trunk to name a few.

I'm in the middle of my install. I'll finish everything except for the trunk. I'll just throw the box and amp back there and do a temp mount. I'll drive around for a day or two with it facing each way and in different places.
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Old 04-13-2004, 02:18 AM   #3
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unfortunately, its gonan be a full custom trunk so i wont be able to just twist and turn and move the box around, first time has to be right becuase its a custom box and cusotm trunk that cannot just be redone if the box needs to be turned around... thats why im seeking info... also am i gonan lose a noticable amount of sq by going to 1 13 from 2 12s? how about the enclosure they are tlaking about... creating a chamber in front of the sealed box and port that chamber into the cabin through the ski pass....
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Old 04-13-2004, 02:30 AM   #4
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If you want loud, go for the 2 12's in a ported box. Roughly calcualting the space requirements, you should have room.

I think that most people who are saying that their subs sound better facing to the back have the subs firing into the entire trunk, not just a portion. Again, theory, is that this creates, most of the time, a gain in volume (corner loading) and the proper distance from the sub and the driver so that the soundwave is near the driver's head when the subs are wired in phase.

You can play with the phase but the corner loading is a different story. Its like an enclosure in an enclosure. And the trunk, with most subs) should be about the optimal volume. When you are sealing off a portion of it, you might lose some of the corner loading gain.

IMO, the best sounding and loudest setups are usually the simpler installs. I'd tell you to just let the sub vent into the entire trunk.

Then again, you are using top of the line JLs, how can you go wrong?
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Old 04-13-2004, 02:38 PM   #5
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I have seen ports that are designed through the ski pass of are cars, not sure how they sound but I know they were done by highly respected people. I had 2 12's in my car, I didn't like it because I couldn't build the box big enough to match JL's recommendations. If you want sound quality that will match your 2 10's, don't get a ported box. They are louder and hit harder, but don't sound as good.
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Old 04-14-2004, 10:58 PM   #6
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I am doing mine with one seled 12w7 running off a 1000/1. This is so damn clear and loud. the 13w7 is made for trucks, it is too big for bimmers. you dont need that much low pass in that small a cabin. What amps are u gonna use. That 13w7 needs at least 2 1000/1's.
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Old 04-14-2004, 11:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///NYCM3
I am doing mine with one seled 12w7 running off a 1000/1. This is so damn clear and loud. the 13w7 is made for trucks, it is too big for bimmers. you dont need that much low pass in that small a cabin. What amps are u gonna use. That 13w7 needs at least 2 1000/1's.
NYCM3 - When you take out the factory Cd changer brackets on the driver's side, empty the wheel well, the trunk looks a LOT bigger. I think you could fit just about anything in there.

Pimpin Coupe - I saw that you are keeping your 10s? If you want to turn your box around to face the subs to the rear, you can out actuators to make your rear seats fold down with the touch of a button. Then you'd be able to display the subs through the plexiglass. Just an idea.
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Old 04-14-2004, 11:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///NYCM3
I am doing mine with one seled 12w7 running off a 1000/1. This is so damn clear and loud. the 13w7 is made for trucks, it is too big for bimmers. you dont need that much low pass in that small a cabin. What amps are u gonna use. That 13w7 needs at least 2 1000/1's.
Boxes for w7's should be built and designed very carefully, especially with "12w7 running off the 1000/1". It could run much more efficiently if it was ported with a 500/1. Running a "13w7 with 'at least' 2! 1000/1's" is a little overpowering the sub. The 1000/1 suits the 13 much better than it would with a 12...although the sub can handle the power. Just spend money and time with a good box and tune it right and it will run way efficient off the 500/1.

EDIT: way overpowering the sub.
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Old 04-14-2004, 11:59 PM   #9
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The shop I use is one of the best in the country. They told me there is no reason to underpower a sub that is meant to be run off the 1000/1. I have an m3 so i dont have a spare tire well. I am gonna use a rather large custon box facing rear. 500/1 is meant for running 1 10w7. and the 13w7 is a 2000 watt speaker.
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Old 04-15-2004, 01:04 AM   #10
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I run 2500W to my 13W7; handles it no problem. 2.2 cubes sealed. Sounds great and pounds hard. Very accurate too
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///NYCM3
The shop I use is one of the best in the country. They told me there is no reason to underpower a sub that is meant to be run off the 1000/1. I have an m3 so i dont have a spare tire well. I am gonna use a rather large custon box facing rear. 500/1 is meant for running 1 10w7. and the 13w7 is a 2000 watt speaker.
bro what are you talkin about LOL... the 13w7 is not a 2000 watt speaker unless your counting "music" wattage which is not rms its what your amp gives on bursts of power... even though it could handle it, it only needs about 1000 watts CONSTANT power which is what the 1000.1 gives so its perfefct for the sub...
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:31 AM   #12
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What makes you think that a 13 will be louder than 2 10's? The area of two 10-inch subs is 157 square inches. The area of a single 13in sub is 133 square inches. With same amount of power, the two 10's should be louder. Also, the 10's will give you tighter (more controlled) bass. You do get lower frequency extension with the 13 though.

It might be louder if you use the ported box instead of a sealed for the two 10's, but the ported box will not give you a linear response any more. You also loose lower bass frequency with a ported box.

Can't you move the box with your 10's to face towards the back? Experiment with it and see what sounds louder. In sedans, behind the rear seat, it is usually louder when the subs face the back.

As far as power, get as much as you want. As long as the signal is adjusted properly (no distortion), the extra headroom will end up giving you better sound quality as well as a louder volume.
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Old 04-15-2004, 09:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330Bimmer3
Boxes for w7's should be built and designed very carefully, especially with "12w7 running off the 1000/1". It could run much more efficiently if it was ported with a 500/1. Running a "13w7 with 'at least' 2! 1000/1's" is a little overpowering the sub. The 1000/1 suits the 13 much better than it would with a 12...although the sub can handle the power. Just spend money and time with a good box and tune it right and it will run way efficient off the 500/1.

EDIT: way overpowering the sub.
The 2 1000/1s will not overpower the sub. Here's why:

A W7 in a sealed enclosure can handle a lot more power without self destructing than a ported enclosure because the sub movement is damped because of the chamber compression. The compression actually requires more force to move the cone in and out, kind of like suction...which we all have probably been on the receiving end from time to time

Anyway, underpowering a sub is more damaging than overpowering a sub. When the sub is underpowered, the amps' damping factor will drop significantly once it begins to clip. Clipping causes the sub's damping factor to drop as well, leading to a loss on control in the movement of the speaker. You will suffer spider/cone separation, surround/cone separation and a burnt coil to name a few.

I've heard that 100% - 115% of rated power is ideal for a sub in a sealed enclosure. Yes ported enclosures play louder at the bass, sealed with give you more and cleaner low bass. If you hear low bass, you are hearing suspension noise...which is not bass, its the sound of your sub dying.
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Old 04-15-2004, 02:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pimpn04coupe
bro what are you talkin about LOL... the 13w7 is not a 2000 watt speaker unless your counting "music" wattage which is not rms its what your amp gives on bursts of power... even though it could handle it, it only needs about 1000 watts CONSTANT power which is what the 1000.1 gives so its perfefct for the sub...
If what it can play regular is what the amp puts out max, you are miss matching the two. 12w7 is made for 1000/1, 13w7 is made for 2 1000/1. We dont even need to get into physics and engineering, just ask anyone who has a 13.
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:37 PM   #15
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no belive me im not missmatching everything, i know the 13 will def handle 2000 watts, but its not meant for it... its meant for 1g watts of clean power... which is what the 1000.1 gives the 12 is meant for 750 watts continuous and some extra headroom wiht the 1000.1.... and ca1242, i did say that one 13 ported willb e louder than 2 10s i wasnt plannin on doin it sealed, well it doesnt even matter because all plans are on hold as of right now
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:00 PM   #16
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no belive me im not missmatching everything, i know the 13 will def handle 2000 watts, but its not meant for it... its meant for 1g watts of clean power... which is what the 1000.1 gives the 12 is meant for 750 watts continuous and some extra headroom wiht the 1000.1.... and ca1242, i did say that one 13 ported willb e louder than 2 10s i wasnt plannin on doin it sealed, well it doesnt even matter because all plans are on hold as of right now
It is hard to tell. with same powers and same type of enclosure, two 10's will most likely be louder than a single 13. It is hard to compare the two options. I personally would stick with the 2 10's in sealed enclosure for sound quality. You might want to swing the box to fire backwards and see if there are any improvements.
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Old 04-15-2004, 10:52 PM   #17
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hey what's up! I'm new with the page but just got a few comments with your questions! I think you should just keep the two 10's v2's cuz they hit more efficiency and accurately than most sized sub and please don't turn your box around facing the trunk I know that'll sound better and all.they'll loosen up your trunk! I almost have the same setup you have except mines are 12's v2 and I'm using a 1200 watt amp pushing these subs at a 1ohm load!
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Old 04-16-2004, 12:32 AM   #18
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thats a nice setup, but i have 2 10 inch w7s... and i wanted to get one 13w7 after i would sell my setup to make some money. the 10s sound amazing, i was gonan do it for finincial reasons but the deal no longer came through so it doesnt matter anymore... but thats a nice setup bro!
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