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Motorsports & Track Forum
From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast

View Poll Results: Who would win a track race? BMW M3 CSL or Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM AMG?
BMW M3 CSL 34 44.16%
Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM AMG 43 55.84%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-07-2004, 04:27 PM   #1
Kain
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Who would win a track race? BMW M3 CSL or Mercedes-Benz CLK DTM AMG?

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Old 05-07-2004, 04:31 PM   #2
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I voted Mercedes just cuz I know you're so anti-Mercedes. Now your poll looks like Mercedes is kicking BMW's ass.
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Old 05-07-2004, 04:41 PM   #3
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I voted Mercedes just cuz I know you're so anti-Mercedes. Now your poll looks like Mercedes is kicking BMW's ass.
Not anymore.
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Old 05-07-2004, 04:44 PM   #4
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merc for sure
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Old 05-07-2004, 04:53 PM   #5
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Merc

I read somewhere in a magazine (It's a British magazine) where they compared the M3 CSL Vs. ordinary M3, and the difference is not much.
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Old 05-07-2004, 05:13 PM   #6
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i don't know for sure but let me say this about the m3csl

it as tires that are 1/2 slick and 1/2 perf. tire only good for around 10,000 miles but they stick to the road like glue.
and they have a heavy duty clutch in the car so you can launch that badboy all day long and won't burn the clutch like the regular m3 one. those two differences are good for alittle time saving plus the csl weights lighter and have stock 360 h/p should make for a interesting race i say.........
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Old 05-07-2004, 05:20 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by B8888KC
Merc

I read somewhere in a magazine (It's a British magazine) where they compared the M3 CSL Vs. ordinary M3, and the difference is not much.

well Ive read numerous comparisons between the Porsche GT3 and M3 CSL, (in british car mags) with the bimmer coming on top. And there is no way that a normal e46 M3 can take on a GT3.
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Old 05-07-2004, 05:49 PM   #8
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Wow, it's dead even right now.
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Old 05-07-2004, 05:57 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by B8888KC
Merc

I read somewhere in a magazine (It's a British magazine) where they compared the M3 CSL Vs. ordinary M3, and the difference is not much.
Don't know which mag you read, but German magazine Sport Auto compared 360CS, GT3 and CSL on Nordschleife, CSL posted a lap time of 7min50s, a massive 6 seconds faster than the 360CS and 4 seconds faster than the GT3. A standard M3 can't even break into 8 min.



That said, I don't think this is a fair comparison. The AMG is a road going version of a racing car, but the CSL is an enhanced version of a road car.

If you wanna see which one has a better chassis, it should be M3 GTR vs CLK DTM
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Old 05-07-2004, 06:05 PM   #10
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the csl is a true track car

they took the regular m3 and made it better those almost slick tires have a big thing to do about the track times they make the tires stick like glue in the turns but in rain anything more than a light shower and you can't steer the car in the rain and i repeat my selg they are only good for 10,000 miles roughly
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Old 05-07-2004, 06:08 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by B8888KC
Merc

I read somewhere in a magazine (It's a British magazine) where they compared the M3 CSL Vs. ordinary M3, and the difference is not much.
well...don't read the mag anymore.....the m3 csl make a normal m3 feels like a family saloon
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Old 05-07-2004, 06:57 PM   #12
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I'll try to find the magazine and tell you what magazine that is... I also didn't believe it. The price difference should tell the difference...
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Old 05-07-2004, 07:27 PM   #13
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OK, I found the magazine. It's the EVO magazine, October 2003. I dunno about the credibility or reliability of this magazine. But there's an article called "Family Feud" where they compare the CSL with the ordinary M3.

Here's the data they compiled:
M3 (manual) Vs. M3 CSL
338bhp@7900rpm Vs. 355 bhp@7900rpm
269lb ft@5000rpm Vs. 273 lb ft@4900rpm
0-60 5.1 secs Vs. 0-60 5.3 secs
0-100 12.3 secs Vs. 0-100 12.0 secs
Basic price 39,735 pounds Vs. Basic price 58,455 pounds

I don't really think this magazine is THAT reliable, perhaps because this magazine is a part of Maxim?

They even compared the CSL with the Porsche GT3 and Subaru Impreza STi, and the CSL got owned so bad. 0-60 time for the CSL was 5.3s, for the GT3 was 4.3s, and for the STi was 4.3s.

WTF? Is this true?
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Old 05-07-2004, 07:47 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by B8888KC
OK, I found the magazine. It's the EVO magazine, October 2003. I dunno about the credibility or reliability of this magazine. But there's an article called "Family Feud" where they compare the CSL with the ordinary M3.

Here's the data they compiled:
M3 (manual) Vs. M3 CSL
338bhp@7900rpm Vs. 355 bhp@7900rpm
269lb ft@5000rpm Vs. 273 lb ft@4900rpm
0-60 5.1 secs Vs. 0-60 5.3 secs
0-100 12.3 secs Vs. 0-100 12.0 secs
Basic price 39,735 pounds Vs. Basic price 58,455 pounds

I don't really think this magazine is THAT reliable, perhaps because this magazine is a part of Maxim?

They even compared the CSL with the Porsche GT3 and Subaru Impreza STi, and the CSL got owned so bad. 0-60 time for the CSL was 5.3s, for the GT3 was 4.3s, and for the STi was 4.3s.

WTF? Is this true?
Yeah I thought it was Evo. It's reliable.

The CSL isn't much faster on a straight line. That's very true. It's built for the track. So it's handling that matters. Drug race acceleration doesn't do much on a twisty track. The CSL pulls 1.4g on a skid pad, standard M3 doesn't stand a chance here. Yes it has a lot to do with the tires, but it still shows what the CSL is capable of
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Old 05-07-2004, 11:21 PM   #15
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The CSL pulls 1.4g on a skid pad, standard M3 doesn't stand a chance here. Yes it has a lot to do with the tires, but it still shows what the CSL is capable of
Umm. . . NOTHING pulls 1.4g on any skid pad. Unless it's in the process of flipping over.
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Old 05-08-2004, 12:30 AM   #16
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I say...

the better driver wins...
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Old 05-08-2004, 02:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B8888KC
OK, I found the magazine. It's the EVO magazine, October 2003. I dunno about the credibility or reliability of this magazine. But there's an article called "Family Feud" where they compare the CSL with the ordinary M3.

Here's the data they compiled:
M3 (manual) Vs. M3 CSL
338bhp@7900rpm Vs. 355 bhp@7900rpm
269lb ft@5000rpm Vs. 273 lb ft@4900rpm
0-60 5.1 secs Vs. 0-60 5.3 secs
0-100 12.3 secs Vs. 0-100 12.0 secs
Basic price 39,735 pounds Vs. Basic price 58,455 pounds

I don't really think this magazine is THAT reliable, perhaps because this magazine is a part of Maxim?

They even compared the CSL with the Porsche GT3 and Subaru Impreza STi, and the CSL got owned so bad. 0-60 time for the CSL was 5.3s, for the GT3 was 4.3s, and for the STi was 4.3s.

WTF? Is this true?
I have the mag and i was very surprised to read their
findings....shocked the hell out of me considering
alot of the other reviewers have praised the CSL.

Also the STI is no ordinary STI, its a Spec C impreza STI
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Old 05-08-2004, 03:31 AM   #18
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the better driver wins...
WHAT?

I'm sorry, am I missing something?

Mercedes Benz CLK DTM AMG
Type: Supercharged V8
Displacement: 5439 cc
Horsepower: 582 bhp @ 6100 rpm
Torque: 590 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm

Redline: 7000 rpm
0-60 mph: 3.8 sec
Top Speed: 198 mph (limited)

BMW M3 CSL
Type: Inline-6
Displacement: 3246 cc
Horsepower: 360 bhp @ 7900 rpm
Torque: 273 lb-ft @ 4900 rpm

Redline: 8000 rpm
0-60 mph: 4.8 sec
Top Speed: 155 mph (limited)


What makes you guys think that these 2 cars are close in comparison? Not only are the MB's number's FAR superior to the BMWs, its got a wide-body frame to increase wheelbase and is a thoroughbread (sp?) race car wearing a road-going car's outfit. How is this even at all? I mean, sure the MB has a 5 speed auto but come on, i dont think that evens out the 212 hp / 327 ft-lb difference between the cars (wow, the difference alone is a sh*tload more hp/tq than my car has.....sad)

the MB would spank the CSL...

PS..whatever you guys are smoking, hook a brother up

Last edited by Dalton; 05-08-2004 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 05-08-2004, 04:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobm3
it as tires that are 1/2 slick and 1/2 perf. tire only good for around 10,000 miles but they stick to the road like glue.
and they have a heavy duty clutch in the car so you can launch that badboy all day long and won't burn the clutch like the regular m3 one. those two differences are good for alittle time saving plus the csl weights lighter and have stock 360 h/p should make for a interesting race i say.........
bobm3
100% agreed - we (friend and me) did a few laps with a stock m3 smgII against a m3 csl on the nurburgring - the csl can break later into the corner, and gets faster out of it, so we lost ground corner for corner, we never lost sight of the csl, but had not the slightest chance to get even in position to pass it.
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Old 05-08-2004, 03:13 PM   #20
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Crap. I just realized the two cars are not direct competitors. I should have had the BMW M3 GTR instead of the CSL.
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