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Old 05-28-2004, 10:12 AM   #41
heavyP
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Hi fanatics,

Cary : thanks for the wirte up!

I contacted BMW customer relations and asked what oils besides the factory brand are acceptable for use. Keep in mind I have a 2000 328i.

The answer: "Castrol Synthetic, Mobil 1
>Synthetic, and Valvoline High Performance Synthetic with a weight of SAE
>5W-30 are also approved by BMW, however, these oils are not formulated for
>15,000 miles between oil changes like the BMW High Performance Synthetic
>engine oil. "

But he recommended the BMW synthetic as best choice.
I take my car in for all the services as per the computer, every 15k miles and get oil service, where I get BMW oil, but I do my own home oil change in between, at 7500 mi, where I put 5W30 Mobil 1. oops! My car got 5W30 2 times so far, but in the future I am switching to 0W40!!!

Weird thing though, I went to the oil application page on the mobil1 site and they suggested 0w-20, 10w-30, and 0w-40 as being okay.
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Old 05-28-2004, 10:24 AM   #42
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Cary, this is fantastic info....clears up alot of the wives tales about oil...greatly appreicate it.

Where can I purchase the oil filters for a 2000 BMW 328Ci?
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Old 05-28-2004, 10:26 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by krs71
Cary, this is fantastic info....clears up alot of the wives tales about oil...greatly appreicate it.

Where can I purchase the oil filters for a 2000 BMW 328Ci?
dealership
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Old 05-28-2004, 10:27 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L.
Whats your take on Amsoil Series 2000 oil? People who use it swear by it. They even make claims that their oil can last up to 35K (or one year) between changes (not that any enthusiast would wait that long). After reading alot of articles/tests about oils, seems like they do rank Redline and Amsoil a notch higher than most synthetics. Curious to hear your opinion on this.
Amsoil makes a quality product, their marketing is rather questionable. If you use amsoil stick with the Series 2000 or better yet their new 5w-40 European Oil which meets A3, BMW LL-01 and MB229.3 &229.5 (The Mercedes Benz Specs, specifcally 229.3 and 229.5, are also very ridgid and indicative of a good quality oil). The 7500 series oil is a cheaper group III hydrocracked oil.

The claims of 35,000 miles are far overplayed. There are many caveats, including regular filter changes during that period, that the car is not operated in severe operating conditions, including much stop and go and cold starts.

From the Used Oil Analysis I have seen, Amsoil is capable of turning in low wear numbers for long change intervals (15,000-20,000 miles), the biggest issue being that Amsoil tends to thicken out of grade during extended oil changes. Personally, I believe that Mobil 1 products are of equal quality (guess where Amsoil buys their base oils from!!!) and cheaper. I would not recommend using either oil much longer than 10,000 miles without getting a used oil analysis to determine how the oil is holding up for your application and driving style.

Redline is a different oil than Amsoil. Where Amsoil is focused on extended oil changes, Redline has traditionally focused on racing. Redline used Group V Polyester base stocks (compared to Mobil and Amsoil using Group IV Polyoflin stocks) which arguably are better stocks for supporting additive packages. Redline also uses very high levels of Moly in their oil which will provide a margin of protection should there be oil starvation (i.e. high cornering loads, oil pump breaks, oil line breaks). Redline's chief engineer used to work for Luberzoil, the primary manufacture of oil additives used by nearly all oil companies. He is well respected as an lube engineer. Note that redline makes race and street oils, the race oils lacking the needed addtive package for long term use (more than a month or so). Finally, in terms of used oil analysis, Redline turns in numbers from amazing to so-so. Terry Dyson who performs a great deal of oil analysis and testing for oil manufactures, fleet vehicle owners, etc., however swears by Redline.

As a quick seperate note, oil life is a function of many variable including, but not limited to 1) oil quality, 2) driving conditions, 3) engine design, and 4) engine oil capacity. I have seen oil analysis on the M50 series BMW engines where the factory BMW Synth 5w-30 has been just about used up at 7500 miles, and others where the same engine design and same oil have held up pretty well to 14,000 miles.

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Old 05-28-2004, 10:29 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by ivan308
OK I plan on changing my oil myself in between the changes provided by the dealer/maintenance plan. Obviously the dealer is going to use the Castrol BMW. From your article you suggest the Mobil 1 over the Castrol. If I use the Mobil 1 for one change and the dealer uses the Castrol for the next etc etc etc are there any issues with alternating oils ?
None at all, change back and forth at will and don't worry about it at all.

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Old 05-28-2004, 10:36 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by heavyP
Hi fanatics,

Cary : thanks for the wirte up!

I contacted BMW customer relations and asked what oils besides the factory brand are acceptable for use. Keep in mind I have a 2000 328i.

The answer: "Castrol Synthetic, Mobil 1
>Synthetic, and Valvoline High Performance Synthetic with a weight of SAE
>5W-30 are also approved by BMW, however, these oils are not formulated for
>15,000 miles between oil changes like the BMW High Performance Synthetic
>engine oil. "

But he recommended the BMW synthetic as best choice.
I take my car in for all the services as per the computer, every 15k miles and get oil service, where I get BMW oil, but I do my own home oil change in between, at 7500 mi, where I put 5W30 Mobil 1. oops! My car got 5W30 2 times so far, but in the future I am switching to 0W40!!!

Weird thing though, I went to the oil application page on the mobil1 site and they suggested 0w-20, 10w-30, and 0w-40 as being okay.
This is the problem, BMW NA is so out of touch and so outdated in their recommendations that they don't know what should be recommended. It is ironic that they continue to recommend oils that do not meet their own BMW Long Life Standards. If you note on the Mobil 1 site the 0w-20 recommendation and 10w-30 recommendation are for low tempuratures (at least last I checked, their site is not loading at the moment).

As far as BMW's own oil being adequate for 15,000 mile oil changes, perhaps they should look at the used oil analysis that come from motors run that long, the condesation and brown crud that comes from running their oil that long, and the horrible sounding drivetrain and obvious sludge buildup after 100,000 miles from using their oil at 15,000 mile intervals. Yes, they do have extra addtives from the standard Castrol Syntec, the the oil is nothing special and does not reliably make the 15,000 mile interval.

Cary

Hey, I got on the Mobil site, their recommendation of 0w-20 for all temps is flat out wrong. If you read the bottles it even says it is designed for honda and for applications calling for 5w-20. Once again an example of bad information floating around. Look for that A3 or BMW LL-01.

Last edited by cary1; 05-28-2004 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 05-28-2004, 01:11 PM   #47
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WOW, so much info my head is going to explode.
So can anyone who understood all of this tell me iz Mobil 1 0w-40 the absolute best for 2000 328Ci. (I live in Mass as far as the climate).
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Old 05-28-2004, 03:54 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by cary1
3) In the US, the only Group IV PAO Synthetics that are available are 1) Mobil 1, 2) Amsoil (but not the Xl-7500), 3) Royal Purple, and 4) German Castrol 0w-30 (it has the red label and says on the back, "Made in Germany). Redline is a Group V PolyEster based oil. All other Castrol, Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline "synthetics" are a Group III hydrocracked oil. It is debated how much better Group IV base oils are than group III, but generally they are considered better.
Cary, there have been rumors and/or speculations that Mobil 1 is no longer GroupIV because of the [supposed] Mobil vs. Castrol court battle over what adequately defines 'synthetic' oils. Is that all it is -- just a rumor? I was debating whether to use RedLine, Mobil 1, or Amsoil at my next change (about 2000 miles to go).

Incidentally, great write-up!
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Old 05-28-2004, 05:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Sicily1918
Cary, there have been rumors and/or speculations that Mobil 1 is no longer GroupIV because of the [supposed] Mobil vs. Castrol court battle over what adequately defines 'synthetic' oils. Is that all it is -- just a rumor? I was debating whether to use RedLine, Mobil 1, or Amsoil at my next change (about 2000 miles to go).

Incidentally, great write-up!

The rumors are exactly that, rumors. Mobil 1 is still a Group IV and considering Mobils investment in Group IV will likely continue to be. The following if from Mobil 1's website, and unless they are lying!!!

What is Mobil 1 and why is it now called Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™?


Mobil 1 is a fully synthetic motor oil for automotive engines. It is made from a unique combination of high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefin (PAO), plus the SuperSyn™ anti-wear system for protection under the most extreme use. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is available in five viscosity grades:

* Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ 10W-30 –
Higher-Mileage Vehicle Formula


* Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ 5W-30 –
Newer Vehicle Formula


* Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ 15W-50 –
Performance Driving Formula


* Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ 0W-30 –
Enhanced Fuel Economy Formula


* Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ 0W-40 –
European Car Formula

Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is truly a global formulation, exceeding the latest standards from the government, the oil industry and vehicle manufacturers. For instance, the appropriate grades of Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ exceed ILSAC GF-3, API Service SL/CF, European ACEA standards and Japanese valvetrain requirements. In addition, some viscosity grades exceed specific OEM standards. One example is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ 0W-40, which exceeds Mercedes Benz's 229.3 specification. As a CF rated oil, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ can also be used in diesel engines calling for a CD oil.

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Old 05-28-2004, 06:10 PM   #50
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awesome stuff cary

but I'm still sticking with the 15k/1yr service interval.
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Old 05-28-2004, 07:52 PM   #51
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So whats the deal 5-30 Mobil Supersyn or 0-40 Mobil. I'm due for an oil change soon. My dad's Porsche gets 0-40 (its pretty expensive). Where is the cheapest place to get it? ??

I can get a case (6 qts) of 5W30 Super Syn Mobil I from Costco for $23.
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Old 05-28-2004, 07:59 PM   #52
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Cary,

I work in the lubricants industry and want to comment on a few of these items. There is nothing wrong with using the 5W-30 Mobil 1 oil if you are concerned about the ACEA requirements. It is an ACEA A5 oil which adds ontop of A3's requirements with fuel economy. The engine oil manufactuer/lubricant additive company must prove that the oil proves fuel economy over a base oil. Its quite possible that other oils also meet this, but this is another costly certification that they may not choose to run for all oils. All certifications cost money. The additive packages you get in all the mobil 1 grades is not going to vary performance wise. they dont make the 0-40 better than the 5W-30 by adding more anti-wear, dispersants or detergent additives.

Also i think you were concerned about the weights of the oil. The company cannot brand the oil at a 5W-30 unless it meets certain viscosity ranges. I highly doubt your going to experience substantial engine wear if you are 2 cst off of the BMW target but you have a great additive package (which mobil 1 does). Its the additives that do all the protection.

Lastly about using oils not from major companies... I really would not recommend it. Companies like ExxonMobil and Castrol actually do a lot of engine testing and are very involved in selecting the best additives and making sure the package works together well with the oil. They spend lots of money to get approvals. The smaller companies cannot do all this testing and get so involved with fine tuning the oil. They buy a good base stock but what about the additive package? Theres a lot of science that goes into makign a good additive package and i doubt if they a lot of times have the resources to develop one. Often times a lot of these packages are the same ones used by a big name company just stuck in a different base stock with no testing. You dont see formula one cars running around with joe schmoe oils in them now do you?

Bottom line, anyone using 5W30 Mobil 1, dont worry about. your engine is going to last a long long time and i wouldnt change a thing.

-Jeff



Quote:
Originally Posted by cary1
I have been crusing through this site and noticed there is a lot of misinformation and confusion about oil. Here are a few things you should know about oil for BMW's:

1) All new BMW's require synthetic. As far as weight, only certain production dates of M3's and M5's require the use of Castrol TWS 10w-60.

2) The Factory BMW Synth 5w-30 is a version of Castrol TXT Softect sold overseas. A few important things about the BMW oil a) it is a Group III hydrocracked oil which cannot be called synthetic in Europe, b) it is a heavy 30 weight (30 weight can run from 9.3-12.5cst@100c, the BMW oil is about 12.2cst), c) it is a ACEA A3 oil which means that it is approved for longer change intervals and has a HTHS (High Tempurature High Shear) measured at 150c of greater than 3.5.

3) In the US, the only Group IV PAO Synthetics that are available are 1) Mobil 1, 2) Amsoil (but not the Xl-7500), 3) Royal Purple, and 4) German Castrol 0w-30 (it has the red label and says on the back, "Made in Germany). Redline is a Group V PolyEster based oil. All other Castrol, Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline "synthetics" are a Group III hydrocracked oil. It is debated how much better Group IV base oils are than group III, but generally they are considered better.

4) When looking for oil for any BMW that does not require Castrol TWS 10w-60, you want to purchase an oil that has either/both of the following ratings, a) ACEA A3, or b) BMW LL-98 or LL-01.

5) Note that Mobil 1 0w-30, 5w-30, and 10w-30 are NOT ACEA A3 or BMW LL approved oils. This is because they all are thin 30 weight oils (approximately 9.8-10 CST@ 100c) and have HTHS of approximately 3.1. Mobil 1 0w-40 and 15w-50 are A3 rated and the Ow-40 is BMW LL-01 approved. For 99% of climates and users 0w-40 or 5w-40 is the appropriate grade. There are some 0w-30 and 5w-30 oils (like the BMW 5w-30) that are forumlated on the heavier end of the 30 weight scale and are accordingly rated A3. These oils will work well also. LOOK FOR THAT ACEA A3 rating. If the oil doesn't have it, pass on it.

6) Some people seem confused about how oil thickness is measured. The first number (0W, 5w, 10w, 15w, etc) is a measurement of how thick the oil is at tempuratures of -35c- -20c (depends on the grade). The lower this first number the thinner the oil is at LOW tempuratures. The second number (30, 40, 50) refers to oil thickness at 100c (operating tempurature). 30 weight can be from 9.3-12.5 cst, 40 weight from 12.6-16.2 cst, 50 weight from 16.3-22cst (approximate). So you can have two oils, one called a 5w-30 (i.e. bmw oil) another 0w-40 (Mobil 1) that are very similar thicknesses at operating tempurature. Compare this to Mobil 1 Xw-30 which is close to a 20 weight oil at 100c. For more information here is a link with exact numbers http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html

7) BMW's recommended interval of 12,000-15,000 miles is to long. Used oil analysis has shown the BMW oil is generally depleted at 10,000 miles. Running it longer results in excess wear. It is highly recommended that you change your oil once between each BMW recommended interval (approx 7000-7500 miles). If you want to run your oil the BMW recommended interval, I would suggest that you use Mobil 1 0w-40 or Amsoil 5w-40 and change the oil filter at 7500 miles. I would encourage a full oil change at 7500 if you want your engine to last.

8) If you want to spend a few hours learning about oil, go to bobistheoilguy.com

Cary
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Old 05-28-2004, 07:59 PM   #53
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my yellow oil light goes on once in a while... i need to add oil i think... im gonna go buy oil right now... which exact one do i need i have a 2004 330ci id really aprreciate the info im not too familiar with which oil i need and how far should i fill it? thanks

btw i have about 5k miles on my car right now...
anyone?
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Old 05-28-2004, 11:32 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by pimpn04coupe
anyone?
Check your oil level first if it's good, take it to your dealer for service.
If you need to add oil I would think it best to add the same type of oil as whats in your car right now. My guess is Castrol Syntec 5W-30.
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Old 05-28-2004, 11:46 PM   #55
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I don't know what to believe anymore. I've been doing filter changes and top offs at 5k between the service intervals. I actually once scheduled an oil change and the dealership told me I wasn't due for one. I told them I would pay for one and they told me it was unnecessary and silly. Fortunatly, because of random luck, the longest any oil has ever been in my engine is 10k miles. But, whatever. I guess I'll start changing the oil at 7500k miles between intervals if that's the recommendation of the day.
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Old 05-29-2004, 01:14 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Red_wagen
My guess is Castrol Syntec 5W-30.
I'm clueless on the type of oils out there, but is this the same as the one BMW sells?

So is the one BMW sells a BMW - Castrol Synthetic 5W-30 oil?
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Old 05-29-2004, 01:36 AM   #57
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I've never actually changed the oil @ BMWs 15K mark, the computer seems to tell me I need a change ~12K or so. Anyhow, is that computer accurate? How does it decide.

Also, My Xi seems to need a qt of oil every 4-5 month. Based on this, I should be able to ride out the 12K-15K change intervals right? Cuz I'd have about 3-4 qts added, that pretty much have replaced all the "old" oil.

I used to change every 3K, but I used organic oils then (non-bmw). With synth. people tell me that since the oils don't change shape etc, 10k-15k should be ok.
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Old 05-29-2004, 04:06 AM   #58
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so guys is it okay to top off with mobil1 0w-40 or should i top off with the same kind of oil thats already in the engine?

also...when I go in for the 15k mile service, can you request what oil to use?

thanks guys!
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Old 05-29-2004, 06:58 AM   #59
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wha whaa whaaa

Great write up man! After reading that and looking at all the replies, it made me think of us E46 owners as parents trying to figure out whats best for our "babies"! lol...WE REALLY love our "kids", dont we guys??
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Old 05-29-2004, 10:08 AM   #60
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Cary,

I work in the lubricants industry and want to comment on a few of these items. There is nothing wrong with using the 5W-30 Mobil 1 oil if you are concerned about the ACEA requirements. It is an ACEA A5 oil which adds ontop of A3's requirements with fuel economy. The engine oil manufactuer/lubricant additive company must prove that the oil proves fuel economy over a base oil. Its quite possible that other oils also meet this, but this is another costly certification that they may not choose to run for all oils. All certifications cost money. The additive packages you get in all the mobil 1 grades is not going to vary performance wise. they dont make the 0-40 better than the 5W-30 by adding more anti-wear, dispersants or detergent additives.

-Jeff
You should know better than. ACEA A3 and A5 are mutually exclusive. You are thinking of A1 which A5 includes. Both ACEA A3 and A5 are for extended change intervals, but A3 is for high HTHS oils with a HTHS of 3.5 or greater and A5 is for engines designed for lower HTHS oils of 2.9-3.5. Last I checked BMW fell in the the A3 group in their designs, and VW/Audi depending on the engine used A5 (lets not get into the entire 505.xx VW oil confusion).

I tried to post the chart but it won't so here is a link:

http://www.lubrizol.com/ReadyReferen...es/default.asp

You should know who lubrizol is, since you probably buy your additives from them. On the right of the page you can pull up the ACEA specs which clearly show the diff between A1, A3 and A5.

In reference to your comment about 5w-30 being only 2cst thinner, note that it 1) is A5 rated, not A3, because it has to low of an HTHS, 2) BMW's own oil is A3, and 3) the only oil that Mobil 1 makes with BMW LL approval is the 0w-40.

Small oil companies- Note that I disagree about the quality, redline and amsoil make great products. I agree with sticking with Mobil because if you have an engine failure, however unlikely, BMW will not be able to say it was becasause you used a non API rated oil.

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