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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 04-04-2007, 09:25 PM   #921
DiscoStu
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3TARD, i'd be very nervous if I were you having BMWNA reps look at your car with all those mods. Regardless of whether or not it rides like OEM suspension, its not, and those accessories are not certified by BMW. I took all of my mods off right down to the intake, i too am waiting for a rep from BMW to inspect my car. It's been sitting at my local BMW body shop for over two weeks now.
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Old 04-04-2007, 09:27 PM   #922
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Could you provide info on the Law Firm that came out to document your car? Our 328i is just gorgeous topside, but is now at the body shop getting the whole darn, rotten back end replaced. Nice tear-out on rear right as well.

The body shop COULD NOT get over how great the car looked everywhere else... all stock, etc.

So, we ordered the Turner reinforcement to be installed along with the new panel work... Don't want this happening ever again. The body shop is photographing and documenting the whole fix. Would love to provide another stark example in court. (And hand over the bill to BMW in the process!)
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Old 04-04-2007, 09:32 PM   #923
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OH also, anyone with a higher mileage 323/328 that HAS had their subframe repaired by BMWNA can you please post up and possibly post some evidence of the work/bill? My service adviser seems to believe my 2000 will have a hard time getting BMW cover to this. On the bright side, he has seen a 1999 M roadster get its floor repaired through BMW.
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Old 04-05-2007, 09:13 AM   #924
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Originally Posted by DiscoStu View Post
3TARD, i'd be very nervous if I were you having BMWNA reps look at your car with all those mods. Regardless of whether or not it rides like OEM suspension, its not, and those accessories are not certified by BMW. I took all of my mods off right down to the intake, i too am waiting for a rep from BMW to inspect my car. It's been sitting at my local BMW body shop for over two weeks now.
Well they already looked at the car; and honestly I didn't feel like going throught the hastle of uninstalling all the mods. On top of that, from reading this thread all the way through it seems as though they are asking less questions and saying yes to more. The last two well documented cases I read on here said that thier cars were modded out more than mine; and they got covered. On top of that, even if I take the suspension off I still have racing seats and an M3 hood and front; which I have nothing to switch with so if they care about mods at all I think I'd be f-ed either way. And lastly, I still have hope since my service advisor told me he thought they would help out.
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Old 04-05-2007, 09:15 AM   #925
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OH also, anyone with a higher mileage 323/328 that HAS had their subframe repaired by BMWNA can you please post up and possibly post some evidence of the work/bill? My service adviser seems to believe my 2000 will have a hard time getting BMW cover to this. On the bright side, he has seen a 1999 M roadster get its floor repaired through BMW.
BTW; my service advisor had the same attitude at first and didn't think they would even consider looking at the car, but when I called BMW they sent TWO reps to come inspect it.
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Old 04-05-2007, 10:27 AM   #926
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Sweet man. Please keep us posted on your situation. Do you have a general idea of when you might find out if BMW will repair this? I myself haven't contacted BMWNA yet, a regional rep through the dealer is going to look at it first. Any pointers or advice for the phone call to BMWNA? Anyone in particular I should talk to?
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Old 04-05-2007, 10:59 AM   #927
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Sweet man. Please keep us posted on your situation. Do you have a general idea of when you might find out if BMW will repair this? I myself haven't contacted BMWNA yet, a regional rep through the dealer is going to look at it first. Any pointers or advice for the phone call to BMWNA? Anyone in particular I should talk to?
The number I called was 1-800-831-1117 extension 8572. I believe this is the recall department but I am not sure; but when I called they did not seem confrontational at all. The rep listened to everything I had to say and told me he would immediately escalate it as it sounded like a safety issue, and that someone would contact me within 24 hours to set up an appointment. The only advice I can give for talking to them is to remain composed and pleasant, and I wouldn't threaten with the lawsuit or anything. Instead I would just innocently tell them you looked up the problem online and it seems to be a common problem, and also tell them you saw a list of over 140 people and a copy of a lawsuit regarding the problem. I told them I knew about the lawsuit but decided to call them first and see if they would help instead of jumping the gun and getting involved with it.
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Old 04-05-2007, 11:34 AM   #928
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http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=453529

this might help you guys out little.
in fact, i got my car back yesterday, and i'm loving it.
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Old 04-05-2007, 12:02 PM   #929
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Thanks for posting that link. It gives us all hope.

Anyone have any pics of the repair? My body shop said after the repair with the new floor installation plus a little paint it will look like it was never torn. I would also like to install the TMS kit while it's being repaired. Are most body shops welcome to installing the reinforcement kit while the floor is being repaired?
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Old 04-05-2007, 04:19 PM   #930
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Does anybody know if BMW would cover the costs of the repair if they or a shop that they approve of did not do the repair? I just left a message at the 1-800 number.
Does anybody know if the lawsuits have been won against BMWNA?
Thanks.
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Old 04-06-2007, 08:42 AM   #931
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*UPDATE*

I got a phone call at 9:30 this morning from BMWNA. The girl told me that they are still reviewing the case and they would have an answer by wednesday, but they wanted me to make an appointment with the dealer's body shop to have it fixed and then call them back and let them know when my appointment is so they can verify that I intend to fix it through thier service center. I asked the girl if she thought that they would be assisting in the repair and she said "probably". I'll update again when I know more......
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:20 AM   #932
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Thanks for posting that link. It gives us all hope.

Anyone have any pics of the repair? My body shop said after the repair with the new floor installation plus a little paint it will look like it was never torn. I would also like to install the TMS kit while it's being repaired. Are most body shops welcome to installing the reinforcement kit while the floor is being repaired?

Disco, tell your bodyshop to contact Mike Anderson at Wagon Work on Rt 1 in Alexandria. WW is the premier body shop in the metro-DC area. I had the Turner kit installed at the same time they repaired my car after some jacka** hit me. The results, including the paint match (Titanium Silver - a tough color to match), are/were perfect. BTW, WW gives you a lifetime warranty on their work!!!!

Last edited by markusmark; 04-06-2007 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 04-06-2007, 01:40 PM   #933
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Thanks for the heads up. Although I'm going to stay with the BMW of Fairfax body shop. The guy I'm working with there knows about this problem, has seen BMW cover the costs and they even have a guy who's job specifically is to repair torn rear floors.
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Old 04-06-2007, 08:17 PM   #934
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What is the latest (newest) model E46 with a confirmed subframe crack ? The best I can tell there is one 2003 and three or four 2002 models ?

I just inspected my 04 330CiC today and there doesn't appear to be any indication of abnormal stress/stress risers. It is build date of 4/03 and has
54k miles on it.

Surely there are some 03, 04 or even 05 models with relatively high mileage (~100k mi) on them out there ?

The materials engineer guy back on page 38-39 of this thread noted that the floor pan/ cross member mount area sheet metal was updated at the end of 2000 beginning of 2001 and there have been very few cars from later models reported as having the cracks.

Anyone out there with a later model with cracks showing up ?

hinesmr

You can not see the stress raiser that initiates the crack. You would need a cross section to fully observe it. Even in newer cars than 02's the design is basically the same. The problem is that there is a very thick and stiff deep drawn plate that the bolt from the subframe bolts into. This piece is inside the sheet metal structure that cracks and is really stiff due to its thickness. The plate is spot welded to the sheet metal on the outside (tire side) of the mount. The forces from the drivetrain under acceleration push up on the plate and then place the sheet metal outside the spot welds under tension. Unfortunately, this puts the highest stress at the perifery of the spot weld (big lever arm here), and sure enough a fatigue crack starts. The perifery of the spot weld, known as a heat affected zone, has reduced mechanical properties than the rest of the metal, particularly in fatigue. So the basic design is messed up by placing the weakest link in the metal under high stress. Every car with cracks that has shown photos of this side of the mount have the exact same crack pattern at the outer two spot welds of the four spot welds. Call Turner Motorsports and they will say the same thing. The newer floors starting in 2001 seem to reduce the problem. This may be due to thicker metal which minimizes deflections of the sheet metal. However, other than a clear change in geometry of the sheet metal we do not know the metal thickness in the pre 01 and post 01 cars.
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:54 PM   #935
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http://www.wcclaw.com/CM/Cases/BMW-Subframe2.asp

I'm sure this has been posted before, but just in case- law firm investigating the subframe issue.

Kind of funny, I had sent an email via gmail about the subframe and google spotted an adword or something and this came up in the ad header.
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:21 PM   #936
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Add 1 More 00 328ci stock wheels stock suspension 91000. miles
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:49 AM   #937
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*update*

Just got a call from the service manager at my dealership; BMWNA will be paying 100% of the estimated $5,000 repair!

Thanks BMW for stepping up to the plate on this
(Glad I don't have a reason to stop buying your cars!)
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:34 AM   #938
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Great news! Seems like BMW NA is finally realizing that this problem is really common and that not ponying up $$$ to fix it hurts their image.
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Old 04-14-2007, 12:06 AM   #939
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*update*

Just got a call from the service manager at my dealership; BMWNA will be paying 100% of the estimated $5,000 repair!

Thanks BMW for stepping up to the plate on this
(Glad I don't have a reason to stop buying your cars!)
Freakin' awesome! I'm still waiting to get a damn estimate on my car so I can contact BMWNA. They body shop my car is at only has one lift and it's been occupied by an E60 M5 involved in a serious front end collision. Anyways, hopefully they'll get back to me this week.

What did you say to BMWNA over the phone btw, to imply you'd like them to pay for it?
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Old 04-14-2007, 12:10 AM   #940
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328i 2000, 100k miles.

sub frame ripped. Cost to fix, 4k down the drain. =(

just happen a month or so ago.
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