E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Bavarian Soundwerks' Mobile Electronics Forum

Bavarian Soundwerks' Mobile Electronics Forum
Have all your A/V and electronics questions answered here. Ipods, A/V, Radar Detectors Oh My!
Sponsored by Bavarian Soundwerks

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-23-2004, 04:30 AM   #1
DamUTRIPPIN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 788
My Ride: E60 530i
Send a message via AIM to DamUTRIPPIN
Question JL 300/2 -or- 450/4 for HEX 600s? Use JL's elect. x-over -or- Diamond's passive one?

I'm creating an SQ set-up similar to what alot of folks are already using. It consists of a single 10w7 powered by 500/1, and are planning to run a set Diamond HEX S600s components for my front stage (not planning to run rearfill).

My question is which JL amp should i use for the one pair of 6.5" HEX?
- Should I use a 300/2, then use Diamond's passive x-overs?
- Or should I use a 450/4 for the staggered channels--using all four of its channels, and using the amp's electronic x-over (and not use the Diamond x-overs at all)?

What do you guys think?
DamUTRIPPIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 09-23-2004, 08:16 AM   #2
sdbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 557
My Ride: 2004 325Ci
I say stick with the passive xover that comes with the HEX 600s. Those xovers are made for thoses speakers and I believe it has electronic protection to protect your speakers from blowing out. One of my friend, who is a Diamond speaker dealer, used a 1,000 watt amp to run those speakers just for fun. Cranked it up and it didn't even blow.
sdbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2004, 02:04 PM   #3
randomtask976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 15 ft below 1 atmosphere
Posts: 209
My Ride: C5 Z06 330i
you need the passive X-over for the diamonds, and the electronic X-over in the amp, they both do different functions, the passive X-over divides the high frequencies into mid-bass and tweeter, if you removed this X-over, you would burn up the tweeter and on most component systems the impedance ( ohms) is a combined value acheived with the X-over network,

you could do without the electronic X-over on the amp, because the passive X-over could handle the low bass frequencies, but it would not be very efficient, and the mid bass speakers would receive bass energy that would make the speaker sound bad, while it was trying to reproduce freqs. it can't handle

the 300/2 is perfect for those the diamonds, 150x2 RMS it has enough headroom for them to get loud, but not too loud to damage them

are you putting the diamonds in the doors ?

Last edited by randomtask976; 09-23-2004 at 02:06 PM.
randomtask976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2004, 06:29 PM   #4
DamUTRIPPIN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 788
My Ride: E60 530i
Send a message via AIM to DamUTRIPPIN
Hmm... So if I end up using both the electronic x-over on the amp and the passive ones w/ the components, would I set the amp's x-over to low-pass? Would this cause any damage to the tweeters? Or is that where the passive x-over comes into play? I'm seriously considering using the 300/2 for my front stage, but am concerned if it'll be enough power to keep up with my 10w7 sub. Also, I noticed alot of similar set-ups using a 500/1 for their 10w7, then using a 450/4 for their mids and highs (running only fronts). Since the 450/4 has staggered power, how are these being wired?

Yes, the Diamonds are going in the doors. While I do appreciate the imaging possible with kick panels, I would really like to keep my dead pedal--and think that kick panels can get cumbersome at times. Will the 6.5" HEX fit in my factory doors without any mods?
DamUTRIPPIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2004, 06:41 PM   #5
randomtask976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 15 ft below 1 atmosphere
Posts: 209
My Ride: C5 Z06 330i
you would set the x-over on the 300/2 to high pass, and tune the freq. cutoff to 50 hz

I have the same setup you are describing, with the w7 10 and 500/1, the diamonds can get loud, but I did not test them on the doors, I am not sure if the diamonds will fit in the doors, never tried,
randomtask976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2004, 07:13 PM   #6
eg6turbo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SF
Posts: 549
My Ride: 2001 330ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomtask976
you would set the x-over on the 300/2 to high pass, and tune the freq. cutoff to 50 hz

I have the same setup you are describing, with the w7 10 and 500/1, the diamonds can get loud, but I did not test them on the doors, I am not sure if the diamonds will fit in the doors, never tried,
you could go either way ...i have notice on my setup with 300/4 with hex 600's that thru the passive x-over...you dont really get that much mids...but if i ran 1-2 channels on low pass at say 120hz for the mids and use the HP on 3-4 channels for the tweets...my mid bass is alot cleaner....but since i do have rear fill...i just used the passive x-over..sounds pretty good to me...but i have a stock navi...so my SQ is duffereing alittle...but good enough...
eg6turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2004, 07:17 PM   #7
learthworml
mod-er-at-or-er
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,188
My Ride: 2011 Tundra Crewmax
450/4. 300/4 is weak. I use active crossovers on my deck. I do not like the passives that come with most comp sets. They do not leave a lot of tuning capability.
__________________
mods
Kore Fox coilovers w/ 2.5" front lift , Fox Rear piggy backs w/ 1" rear lift, 305/65 18 BFG at/ko, TRD front Skid plate, console vault

SQ sound system
Seas Nextel Mids, Focal Utopia Mids, Focal BE tweeters, JL Audio 13tw5, Alpine PDX-4.150, Alpine PDX-1.600, Audison Bit One processor, Pioneer z150 hu
learthworml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2004, 09:08 PM   #8
DamUTRIPPIN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 788
My Ride: E60 530i
Send a message via AIM to DamUTRIPPIN
Quote:
Originally Posted by learthworml
450/4. 300/4 is weak. I use active crossovers on my deck. I do not like the passives that come with most comp sets. They do not leave a lot of tuning capability.
How are your componets wired? Are you using the 450/4's 150 channels for your mids, and 75 watt channels for the tweets? Is it safe pumping that much juice into your components w/out using the Diamond passives?
DamUTRIPPIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2004, 10:42 PM   #9
bigjae1976
Registered User
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 11,472
My Ride: A car
Send a message via MSN to bigjae1976
I'm pretty sure the Hex tweeters are 8 ohm, check the back of the tweeter. So if you can stand your tweeters getting half the power (and playing at -3db), then forgo the passives.
bigjae1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2004, 11:30 PM   #10
DamUTRIPPIN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 788
My Ride: E60 530i
Send a message via AIM to DamUTRIPPIN
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
I'm pretty sure the Hex tweeters are 8 ohm, check the back of the tweeter. So if you can stand your tweeters getting half the power (and playing at -3db), then forgo the passives.
Don't JL amps pump out their specified power regardless of impedance?
DamUTRIPPIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2004, 11:42 PM   #11
Ron@Streeteffectz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 835
I don't want to sound rude or anything, but JL and "SQ" just don't go together in the same sentence. JL makes great amps for subs, but for components, especially on something like a HEX, they leave something to be desired. Of course, that's just my opinion

Any particular reason you want to run a JL amp for the components other than to match the 500/1 ???
Ron@Streeteffectz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2004, 01:46 AM   #12
kwang125
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 454
My Ride: 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron@Streeteffectz
I don't want to sound rude or anything, but JL and "SQ" just don't go together in the same sentence. JL makes great amps for subs, but for components, especially on something like a HEX, they leave something to be desired. Of course, that's just my opinion

Any particular reason you want to run a JL amp for the components other than to match the 500/1 ???
..

but J/L is a fad on this forum... so... ... ...
kwang125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2004, 01:48 AM   #13
randomtask976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 15 ft below 1 atmosphere
Posts: 209
My Ride: C5 Z06 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron@Streeteffectz
I don't want to sound rude or anything, but JL and "SQ" just don't go together in the same sentence. JL makes great amps for subs, but for components, especially on somethingy do like a HEX, they leave something to be desired. Of course, that's just my opinion

Any particular reason you want to run a JL amp for the components other than to match the 500/1 ???

why do you say JL are not SQ amps, is it just a subjective or objective opinion ?


fad or not, thery are nicely built amps, large heat sinks, very robust X-over, regulated power supply, automatching impedance, all at a modest price, if you were to buy some overlypriced amp like brax, helix, zapco, mcintosh, just because they are that, overly priced
and it's not that they would not bring much to the table as in performance or flexibility

Last edited by randomtask976; 09-24-2004 at 01:57 AM.
randomtask976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2004, 01:52 AM   #14
learthworml
mod-er-at-or-er
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,188
My Ride: 2011 Tundra Crewmax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron@Streeteffectz
I don't want to sound rude or anything, but JL and "SQ" just don't go together in the same sentence. JL makes great amps for subs, but for components, especially on something like a HEX, they leave something to be desired. Of course, that's just my opinion

Any particular reason you want to run a JL amp for the components other than to match the 500/1 ???

I have to disagree with you here. I think they make great amps. There have been a couple test on some message boards that have put JL amps up against Tru and Brax. I believe the Jl had the lowest distortion. If anything the Hex components should be left out of the SQ sentence. I would upgrade from those before spending unecessary money on upgrading form a JL amp.
__________________
mods
Kore Fox coilovers w/ 2.5" front lift , Fox Rear piggy backs w/ 1" rear lift, 305/65 18 BFG at/ko, TRD front Skid plate, console vault

SQ sound system
Seas Nextel Mids, Focal Utopia Mids, Focal BE tweeters, JL Audio 13tw5, Alpine PDX-4.150, Alpine PDX-1.600, Audison Bit One processor, Pioneer z150 hu
learthworml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2004, 01:54 AM   #15
learthworml
mod-er-at-or-er
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,188
My Ride: 2011 Tundra Crewmax
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamUTRIPPIN
How are your componets wired? Are you using the 450/4's 150 channels for your mids, and 75 watt channels for the tweets? Is it safe pumping that much juice into your components w/out using the Diamond passives?
Yes it is safe. The utopia mids can handle it. I have 150 for each mid and 75 for each tweet. I am running an active crossover setup.
__________________
mods
Kore Fox coilovers w/ 2.5" front lift , Fox Rear piggy backs w/ 1" rear lift, 305/65 18 BFG at/ko, TRD front Skid plate, console vault

SQ sound system
Seas Nextel Mids, Focal Utopia Mids, Focal BE tweeters, JL Audio 13tw5, Alpine PDX-4.150, Alpine PDX-1.600, Audison Bit One processor, Pioneer z150 hu
learthworml is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2004, 01:58 AM   #16
kwang125
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 454
My Ride: 323i
tube amp has more distortion, higher THD. but people swear tube amp is the way to go if you want SQ. ....

also, the concensus is that difference in THD between reputable amps is not noticeable...
kwang125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2004, 02:04 AM   #17
randomtask976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 15 ft below 1 atmosphere
Posts: 209
My Ride: C5 Z06 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwang125
tube amp has more distortion, higher THD. but people swear tube amp is the way to go if you want SQ. ....
that is because people don't know how amps operate, and they listen with their eyes too
randomtask976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2004, 07:19 AM   #18
bigjae1976
Registered User
 
bigjae1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 11,472
My Ride: A car
Send a message via MSN to bigjae1976
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwang125
tube amp has more distortion, higher THD. but people swear tube amp is the way to go if you want SQ. ....

also, the concensus is that difference in THD between reputable amps is not noticeable...
So I've heard, anything below 1% is unaudible and the THD ratings are at the RMS or max power. Your amps aren't putting out that much power unless you have your volume of full throttle.

IMO, the most important thing between reputable amps is its thermal capability and headroom. Those aspects have audible differences. Such as, when one amp keeps playing and the other shuts down.

I beat down my US Amps and it doesn't shut down. BTW some reputable amps will automatically reduce their output when things get tough.
bigjae1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2004, 12:14 PM   #19
kwang125
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 454
My Ride: 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomtask976
that is because people don't know how amps operate, and they listen with their eyes too

LOL... that is a good point!.
i've never heard tube amp, so i don't know if they are better SQ wise..
kwang125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2004, 12:29 PM   #20
kwang125
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 454
My Ride: 323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
So I've heard, anything below 1% is unaudible and the THD ratings are at the RMS or max power. Your amps aren't putting out that much power unless you have your volume of full throttle.

IMO, the most important thing between reputable amps is its thermal capability and headroom. Those aspects have audible differences. Such as, when one amp keeps playing and the other shuts down.

I beat down my US Amps and it doesn't shut down. BTW some reputable amps will automatically reduce their output when things get tough.

i agree with you.
i believe JL is not an SQ amp from what i've read on forums, but would i be able to detect the difference in SQ between JL and RF/PG/Kicker/Brax/McIntosh/Tru/Zapco/Audison/US amp ???? no. not in the car environment.
some amps "May" be better SQ wise. but, the more important aspect to average users is what you mentioned. to me, a watt is a watt...

Last edited by kwang125; 09-24-2004 at 12:36 PM.
kwang125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use