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Old 10-18-2004, 09:48 PM   #1
Juha 323Ci
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Mounting the speakers to the doors with mdf rings (Photos)

I'm completing my stereo install and the last part is mounting the front speakers.

I didn't want to mount them on the door panels, but on the door itself.
Now, should I make a hole to the door the allow the speaker to breath into inside the door or should I leave the gaps between the lowest mdf rings and the door open.
If I seal the rings all the way to the door, I think I have to make a hole. Otherwise the "box" for the speaker will be too small and I will loose low end.

What are the cons if I just leave the lowest ring unsealed against the door?

Any ideas?

Here's a pic:



There's also some pics of the install here:

http://www.saunalahti.fi/~jgranqvi/ICE/
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Old 10-18-2004, 09:52 PM   #2
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Probably not an audible difference. But you could use some silicone to seal the gaps. Make sure its waterproof. I'd put a small wod of polyfill in therings as well.

SEE EVERYONE...this is how you get your door to stop rattling. Much cheaper than dynamat and much better than dynamat. Its just better.
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Old 10-18-2004, 10:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
Probably not an audible difference. But you could use some silicone to seal the gaps. Make sure its waterproof. I'd put a small wod of polyfill in therings as well.

SEE EVERYONE...this is how you get your door to stop rattling. Much cheaper than dynamat and much better than dynamat. Its just better.
is that what you did?
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Old 10-18-2004, 10:23 PM   #4
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You talked me into it!!! Actually, I've wanted to do this for a while, just havent had time. Good job.
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Old 10-18-2004, 10:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan4081
You talked me into it!!! Actually, I've wanted to do this for a while, just havent had time. Good job.
any reason why the bottom ring is cut in half and angled forward?
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Old 10-19-2004, 08:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///NYCM3
any reason why the bottom ring is cut in half and angled forward?

Because the door surface is bevelled.
The surroundings of the door are thicker (lower in the direction of the rings) and the center of the door is thinner (deeper in the direction of the rings).

The rings mount partially on the thicker sections of the door, hence the half ring.
There are 2 pcs 3/4" rings on top of the thicker areas and 3 pcs 3/4" on the thinner areas. The 3rd ring is the one that's cut in half.

The question I was trying to ask was that do I need to fill in the gaps between the 3rd ring ends and the door surface...

Here's a photo:

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Last edited by Juha 323Ci; 10-19-2004 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 10-19-2004, 08:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low
is that what you did?
Mine is still mounted to the door panel. I'm still brushing my fiberglass skills up. Once I am confident and get the time, I'm gonna make a small enclosure that mounts onto the door.
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:37 AM   #8
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i think u should use fiberglass to fill the gap, or if you want something easier you can use clay and put silicon on top of the clay.
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:42 AM   #9
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What I would do, is seal the rings to the door, then vent the mid to the door cavity itself.

I'd do this for two reasons:
1. the volume of air in the door cavity is larger then the volume b/t the door panel and door
2. should reduce the vibrations in the doorpanel significantly

This guy used modeling clay to get it done:
http://www.canadiancaraudio.com/cgi/...0;t=001178;p=1

Most midbasses out there will suffer from a small sealed enclosure - you will get reduced low end output and some peaks in the midrange.
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Old 10-19-2004, 11:51 AM   #10
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i agree with rcurley...cut that shi.t up!! sounds real nice...
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Old 10-19-2004, 12:13 PM   #11
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Could you use like a 2" holesaw to cut the vent? Also if you didn't want to cut the door, what difference would you hear? Say if I sealed the rings to the door and put a little polyfill in the rings, would that make it sound the same as if it was vented?

This is a really good thread, giving me lots of good ideas!
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Old 10-19-2004, 12:27 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by DarrenE46
Could you use like a 2" holesaw to cut the vent? Also if you didn't want to cut the door, what difference would you hear? Say if I sealed the rings to the door and put a little polyfill in the rings, would that make it sound the same as if it was vented?

This is a really good thread, giving me lots of good ideas!

I'm sure a hole saw would work fine - although, theoretically, any hole you cut should have an area equal to about 60% of the cone area of the driver - I remember that being an old rule of thumb, but I don't think it's required.

If you sealed the rings to the door, then added poly fill without cutting a hole, you would have midbass in a tiny box, so you would have no low end extension and a big peak in your response.

If you cut the hole - there's no real need for poly fill, I guess it could break up the back wave, but you would have to be sure that you used some technique to keep any water off of it to ensure that it didn't rot, etc.

Although, I'm fairly certain that those doors don't take on TOOO much water.

Remember....if you didn't cut a hole and seal the midbass to the cavity, you would have to seal the midbass to the door panel. IF you didn't, your front and back wave would touch - both would come out the speaker grille and you would have a ton of cancellation and no midbass response.

So either you have to seal the mid to the doorpanel - ala factory style, and use the door panel as the separation, or you gotta seal the mid to the door cavity, and use the door cavity as the separation point. Also keep in mind that the foam vapor barrier had better at least be glued back in place or you will have a very leaky door (from an audio perspective). I'd go so far as to patch up those holes with soem perforated metal coverd in sound deadening, then screw them to the holes in the door.

I did a similar thing in my civic to help stiffen the door and seal it up...

http://www.sounddomain.com/id/sq_civic_si

It's an old install and the log isn't complete, but that gives you an idea of what I did to my doors. the M3 will probably get a similar treatment, only this time I'll be using some paint on deadener - Edead v3.
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Last edited by rcurley55; 10-19-2004 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 10-19-2004, 12:54 PM   #13
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Ok, if I did cut the door, wouldn't I have to worry about water leaking in from the window sealer?
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Old 10-19-2004, 12:57 PM   #14
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yeah, that would be a potential problem, but it would be very easy to build a guard once you have the door apart. Some hot glue and some foam/rubber/plastic and you are money. You could even trim up some of those XTC foam baffles that you can get from crutchfield.

hot glue is an installers dream - sure you feel like a bit of a pansy shopping in the arts and crafts store, but that and fleece are essential to installing!
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Old 10-19-2004, 01:06 PM   #15
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So what would you use to keep the vent watertight?
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Old 10-19-2004, 01:10 PM   #16
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umm, see the post above , all you need is some kind of a guard, like a half moon shape.

The door won't get that much water, just when you wash it or heavy rain. I'd probably attach something from the back side to act as a gutter/guard to keep rain from going in the hole.

Without the door infront of me and open, I can't tell you specifically.
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Old 10-19-2004, 01:51 PM   #17
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Definitely cut the doors. I had my seas lotus mids in kicks before sealed and I had a huge resonance peak, you definitely need more space.
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Old 10-19-2004, 02:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learthworml
Definitely cut the doors. I had my seas lotus mids in kicks before sealed and I had a huge resonance peak, you definitely need more space.
What did you use to seal off the vent from the elements?
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Old 10-19-2004, 02:13 PM   #19
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I haven't done mine yet because I am still waiting for my new lotus speakers. I am going to use modeling clay though, the kind that doesnt harden. I have used it before and it works great.
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Old 10-19-2004, 05:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by learthworml
Definitely cut the doors. I had my seas lotus mids in kicks before sealed and I had a huge resonance peak, you definitely need more space.
exactly!....seas baby, seas!! lol, damn, im so much into boners..but these speakers need to breathe, imo.
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