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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 11-24-2004, 11:10 AM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SST
The "panties...." is an expression. It's means, "let's not get upset so easily."
It's actually somewhat derogatory towards women as it implies that women get upset too easily. I used it in a commical manner to try and quell the raising anger in your posts. Afterall, we're discussing opinions not matters of fact when it comes to whether we like or dislike certain body styles, shapes, etc...

My answer is that, I don't need one.

Relax, it's the internet. Don't take it all so personally. Heck, even in your real day to day life it doesn't pay to get so upset. It makes one nervous and edgy and that causes irregular heartbeats and can lead to producing more cholesterol which can lead to heartattacks and death.
Hmmmm.........see how poor design by Bangle can actually cause death?


It's all good. Take care.

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Old 11-24-2004, 05:20 PM   #202
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Yuck

I see not a single thing to like about the E46's replacement. Everything looks cheap, cheap, cheap. Like a bad knockoff of the E46. I look at it and instead of an elegent and near perfect blend of angles and curves I see a lot of lines for the sake of lines, and I DEFINITELY see elements of Pontiac and Japanese imports. It's truly awful.
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:25 PM   #203
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Yuck Revisited

Forgot to mention ...

The elements that grab me about the E46 (especially post-facelift) are the combination of the lights and kidney grills. The 5-Series essentially tried to marry the same elements but the proportions seem off and not as appealing. I actually prefer the shape of the taillights from the E36 to the E46. I just like the elegant simplicity and minimalism of the thing. The Z3 was also a beautiful and well proportioned car. It reminded me of a batmobile for real people. It was just too small for me. So the kidney grills/lights combo, the way the line of the top of the doors continues to angle up to the high tail, the lack of extraneous detail, those are the things about the BMW they should have went with, but instead we're getting a schoolboys fantasy of a BMW on steroids. A tramp when we've been in the company of a lady.
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Old 11-24-2004, 10:00 PM   #204
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[QUOTE=xxpaintmepunkxx]If I think Bangle is a good designer, than apparently you do too! He designed the e46!
QUOTE]

if you mean bangle designed the E46? then you are totally. i forgot the designer's name but he retired after he finished with E46, he also designed previous BMW from years before. he was the headdesigner, but now he is the designer for aston martin. his latest creation is vanguish, which brought AM from bankrupcy to profit
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Old 11-25-2004, 12:13 PM   #205
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[QUOTE=LucentAUTO]
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
If I think Bangle is a good designer, than apparently you do too! He designed the e46!
QUOTE]

if you mean bangle designed the E46? then you are totally. i forgot the designer's name but he retired after he finished with E46, he also designed previous BMW from years before. he was the headdesigner, but now he is the designer for aston martin. his latest creation is vanguish, which brought AM from bankrupcy to profit
I meant he had a hand in the design. Kthanks.
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Old 11-26-2004, 05:34 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
I meant he had a hand in the design. Kthanks.
Someone needs to chop that hand off.

I did a Google search for "BMW 'fire Bangle'" and found this article. Pretty good reading.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/62/bmw.html

I think the part about the BMW being three sausages in different lengths (3, 5, 7) is appropriate, and that those elements worked best with the 3-Series' proportions. Still, BMW was super-successful during this period, making people wonder how they were going to top themselves with new models, and instead of looking at the cars' styling and keeping what was right, they took them in a totally different (and down-market looking) direction it seems (and a lot of people are complaining and sales are down). The appeal of BMW just isn't there for me with the new models as they don't have the qualities that brought me to BMW in the first place, and I know for a fact that an Audi A4 is a much more comfortable driving experience than a BMW 3-Series in its E46 guise (the steering wheel doesn't extend enough with the seat all the way back and I feel the seat frame and cross-bar under the padding in the E46 but never in the Audi [drove for three years, owned by former love interest]). Looking at the market, my next car's probably an Audi, as strangely it seems more BMW than BMW in this Bangle debacle period.
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Old 11-27-2004, 01:37 PM   #207
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I posted I've seen the E90 driving around Calabasas in the General Forum. I saw it twice recently, still in the hidden black panels we've seen. However, my question, anyone know why they still have it covered up if they have released "official" looking pictures of what it's suppose to look like?

For the most part I like the new design. The rear, I'm not really feeling, as most of you. I figure (hoping) it may actually change when the press photos arrive? I have to see it in person to make the final judgement/decision if I really like it. I expect most of you will as well. I felt the same about the new 5 when it came out. Now we own one.

You have to realize, many people are not members of a car forum such as this one. Those who have owned BMWs in the past or first time owners will instantly love the new design. This usually happens.

Anyone seen December 2004 Motor Trend? Page 16 has a spy photo of the upcoming coupe (E92) as well as a small read about the leaked 3 series brochure. It also says: "A multipurpose vehicle based on either the 3 or the 1 series is under consideration and wouldn't appear earlier than the 2008 model year." Yikes! Is that the mini van that's rumored?
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Old 11-27-2004, 02:32 PM   #208
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According to that article, Chris Bangle has been BMW's Head of Design since 1992, which would make him responsible for the E46. It also (obviously) says that Bangle doesn't draw up the designs himself, but rather, has several design teams come up with their own designs and compete to see which one turns out to be chosen.

Either way you look at it, either he is responsible for both the older models and the newer models, or he's not really responsible for either of them.
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Old 11-27-2004, 07:22 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
According to that article, Chris Bangle has been BMW's Head of Design since 1992, which would make him responsible for the E46. It also (obviously) says that Bangle doesn't draw up the designs himself, but rather, has several design teams come up with their own designs and compete to see which one turns out to be chosen.

Either way you look at it, either he is responsible for both the older models and the newer models, or he's not really responsible for either of them.
Well now, first you say he did the design then you say he only "helped" and now you have a new view.

It takes a while BEFORE a designers ideas go into effect. The E46 was before him. He was there for the "freshing" bits but not the whole thing.
The 7 series was his big hand, then the 5, and now we see BMW holding back as the bread and butter 3 series is ready to be launched. They heard the public outcry and decided to address the issue before it was too late.

TT
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Old 11-28-2004, 07:08 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SST
Well now, first you say he did the design then you say he only "helped" and now you have a new view.

It takes a while BEFORE a designers ideas go into effect. The E46 was before him. He was there for the "freshing" bits but not the whole thing.
The 7 series was his big hand, then the 5, and now we see BMW holding back as the bread and butter 3 series is ready to be launched. They heard the public outcry and decided to address the issue before it was too late.

TT
Say whatever you like, but please stop misquoting me.

That was in defense of a previous statement, and disproving someone's claim that there was some other guy (head of design for Aston Martin? haha) that was BMW's Chief of Design when the E46 was concieved and produced. Bangle has held that position since 1992.

----------------------------

Now if you want my opinion, it's as follows. I don't think Bangle personally designed any of the new models. I do think he had a hand in designing the E46. I do think that Bangle is ultimately responsible for what comes out, because the design teams are under his initial supervision, and he approves and possibly tweaks the results. I havn't changed my opinions at all. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Last edited by xxpaintmepunkxx; 11-28-2004 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 12-01-2004, 01:43 AM   #211
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Look here, there are some photos from CAR December

http://www.bmwclub.ru/vb/showthread....&highlight=CAR
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Old 12-02-2004, 10:59 AM   #212
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E90 Vid

I hope this is not a . My appologies if it is...

Interesting look at the car:

http://www.bmw.com/generic/com/en/p...ase_2/movie.htm

Enjoy if you have not already seen it.
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Old 12-02-2004, 12:34 PM   #213
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does chris bangle needs too get his butt whopped for making a ugly ass car for old people
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Old 12-03-2004, 12:05 AM   #214
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hmm..i visited BMW South Africa and was looking at the 1-series. so i'm hoping the 2 series will be coming out next year. i'm pretty interested in the new M2 that's been spreading around the internet.

how do you guys think this will affect prices on e46 M3's? would it be wise of me to hold onto my 330ci for a couple more years and then grab an M3 after the new line of cars come out?
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:00 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by EK
hmm..i visited BMW South Africa and was looking at the 1-series. so i'm hoping the 2 series will be coming out next year. i'm pretty interested in the new M2 that's been spreading around the internet.

how do you guys think this will affect prices on e46 M3's? would it be wise of me to hold onto my 330ci for a couple more years and then grab an M3 after the new line of cars come out?
What is the price on E90? or the 1-series??
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Old 12-06-2004, 12:01 AM   #216
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I'm a fan of the design. The only bangle design I have a problem with is the 7-series.
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Old 12-08-2004, 02:06 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by schow36
I'm a fan of the design. The only bangle design I have a problem with is the 7-series.
Everyone seems to think Bangle is to blame for unpopular designs (7-Series), but that is only partially true. The Vorstand (BMW Board of Directors) chooses from multiple designs and makes final approval on all production designs.

My honest opinion is that these designs are ahead of their time and as always BMW is setting a benchmark that others will eventually follow.

TT
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Old 12-08-2004, 04:48 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topaz330xi
Everyone seems to think Bangle is to blame for unpopular designs (7-Series), but that is only partially true. The Vorstand (BMW Board of Directors) chooses from multiple designs and makes final approval on all production designs.

My honest opinion is that these designs are ahead of their time and as always BMW is setting a benchmark that others will eventually follow.

TT
Seeing as how even BMW has "toned down" the 7 with minor changes and then decided to not go all out on the new 3 series, is evidence that even BMW may not follow these designs into the future. It doesn't seem likely that BMW is setting benchmarks with these new designs given that they don't seem too confident in them now either.

There is such a thing as paradigm shifts in design and there is different for the sake of different. BMW has sadly taken much of the latter.
The Z4 is to convertibles as the Pontiac Aztek is to SUV's. A mess.

TT
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Old 12-08-2004, 09:37 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by SST
Seeing as how even BMW has "toned down" the 7 with minor changes and then decided to not go all out on the new 3 series, is evidence that even BMW may not follow these designs into the future. It doesn't seem likely that BMW is setting benchmarks with these new designs given that they don't seem too confident in them now either.

There is such a thing as paradigm shifts in design and there is different for the sake of different. BMW has sadly taken much of the latter.
The Z4 is to convertibles as the Pontiac Aztek is to SUV's. A mess.

TT
The response of the media has scared BMW into being conservative, but that does not mean the design is bad. Although the media bashed the 7-series, it still has sold extremely well. BMW has continued to increase sales even with designs that push the envelope. When you make a big change, you are always running the risk of disappointing customers but there is the equally possibility of replacing those customers with more new customers. I am willing to bet that the E90 will still sell extremely well.

I think it is very unfair to compare a Z4 to an Aztek. The Aztek has been a flat out failure, but the Z4 is still selling. Design is so subjective, but when the day is done all BMW cares about are increased sales and increased profits through the production of premium driver's cars.

TT
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Old 12-08-2004, 10:25 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Topaz330xi
The response of the media has scared BMW into being conservative, but that does not mean the design is bad. Although the media bashed the 7-series, it still has sold extremely well. BMW has continued to increase sales even with designs that push the envelope. When you make a big change, you are always running the risk of disappointing customers but there is the equally possibility of replacing those customers with more new customers. I am willing to bet that the E90 will still sell extremely well.

I think it is very unfair to compare a Z4 to an Aztek. The Aztek has been a flat out failure, but the Z4 is still selling. Design is so subjective, but when the day is done all BMW cares about are increased sales and increased profits through the production of premium driver's cars.

TT
Don't bother arguing with him, you aren't going to change his mind. Just don't sweat it... I for one, also like the new designs, but some do and some don't... Nothing we can say will change that. Let them wallow.
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