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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 02-17-2005, 07:50 AM   #361
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Old 02-17-2005, 11:30 AM   #362
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I did screenshots of all the E90 GT4 photos on the BMW website, now I have to go buy a damn PS2 just to drive it...

Pontiac's been trying to imitate BMW for years, that pseudo kidney grill goes back to the late 80's Grand-Am at least. I've actually had to look twice in the rear-view mirrors, thinking I saw some new ugly model.

I do like the E90 though, and I didn't have to get used to it. I hated the E46 until the facelift, it's amazing what a simple headlight change did.

I've driven everything comparable that's on the market in that price range, and I still want the E90.

The C-Class Merc is underpowered and sloppy unless you go AMG (and then it's in the $50K's), although the interior's nicer;

The Audi A4 felt great to drive, but tiny inside and all of the interior surfaces are too smooth and slippery (everything in my E46 had some kind of tactile feel to it, even the cupholders).

The G35 is a flat, plastic nightmare in the center of the dash and couldn't even get out of it's own way on the interstate;

The Jag X-type has an ass and a greenhouse like a Pontiac if I ever saw one (for a minute on I-95 I thought Pontiac finally got some design sense, then I passed it and saw that Jag just lost theirs).

Acura's TL looks like someone glued a plastic body kit around the wheelwells and rockers, still looks like a Honda, plus it feels cheap inside even though it's got more features.

Cadillac's CTS is just butt ugly and weird looking, the interior's too angular, and the radio/climate console looks like someone stuck an old Compaq PC in the dashboard, plus all the cross-hatched textures on the dash are just a poor attempt at "high-tech!".

Lexus...didn't even bother, they look like sausages someone left under the sink for a week. Bad proportions, and it's still just a fancy Toyota. I'd buy a Scion TC before I bought a Lexus.

I haven't seen anything under $45K that compares to BMW's build quality, and I don't really care if Infiniti and Acura stuff more HP into their weak little engines. HP doesn't make much of a difference under 120mph, it's all about the torque for daily driving and anything other than straight-line racing. I was set to buy a new 330i, but now it just looks dated to me, I'll gladly wait to compare the E90.
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Old 02-17-2005, 12:40 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by XiPHiAS
The 320, 323, 325, 328's are made for the non US country's. Here in Belgium and some other country's overhere in Europe has extreme high taxes on engines with high cc's. So BMW make cars they can sell allround the whole world and not just USA ... don't forget that!
Believe me, I haven't forgot that at all.
I was born in Europe so I understand there is more than just the US market.

I was addressing BMW's dicision to use a 3.0 engine in both the 325 and 330.
In the 325 the 3.0 engine puts out an underacheiver output. So, in terms of tax on high cc's for you folks, you may as well get the 330 with the same displacement. If you're going to be charged for the cc's you may as well get more out of them.
The advantages of having a smaller engine, like lighter weight, lower tax for some, lower insurance, etc... gets negated when they choose to use the same size engine in both the 325 and 330. I was addressing those 2 in particular as that is on only option in the US.

TT
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Old 02-17-2005, 12:49 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by ts325
I haven't seen anything under $45K that compares to BMW's build quality, and I don't really care if Infiniti and Acura stuff more HP into their weak little engines. HP doesn't make much of a difference under 120mph, it's all about the torque for daily driving and anything other than straight-line racing. I was set to buy a new 330i, but now it just looks dated to me, I'll gladly wait to compare the E90.

I think you dismiss a lot of cars for some odd reasons. But, the choice is yours obviously. You make negatives on a lot of models based more so on looks than other issues. Yet, BMW has had the most trouble in regards to it's new looks across the line. Granted the E90 doesn't suffer as badly, at least on the exterior, but the inside is another story altogether. The interior isn't as inviting and has slipped towards the MercB. minimalist slope. I'll reserve final judgement when one becomes available in person, but in picts the interior leaves me wanting.

I don't agree with you HP assessment. High HP is not just a matter of high vehicle speed. It's more a matter of high engine speed. HP is derived from torque. High HP at high revs implies that the engine produces very good torque even spinning fast and free. Take a look at the torque spread on the Acura/Honda engines and it makes sense. Being able to spin the engine up quickly allows that power to build quickly which motivates the vehicle quickly. The performance numbers given the output numbers is very impressive, thus, it works pretty well. It's a different approach and it's one that works well. High revving engines with power bands that accentuate power even at high rpms help make power output easier to control and power output more linear.

TT
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Old 02-17-2005, 06:58 PM   #365
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Looks are all subjective anyway; I could really care less what the press or message boards say about looks. I either like it or I don't. I think there's a lot of people who probably would have liked the "Bangle" look if the columnists hadn't jumped on it, but there's a lot of weak-minded consumers who actually listen to movie reviews and style critiques...a review based on something quantifiable, like performance, is totally different than *****ing about the trunk bustle or the 7's headlights. To me, the E90 is a good balance of the odd lines the Z4 brings in and the more sedate curves on the E46. You might hate it, your choice. I happen to be violently repelled by Lexus to the point I didn't even drive it. It could beat the E90 in all areas of performance, and I would still have to look at it in the driveway.

Most of the reasons I disliked the other cars in the range come down to fit and finish. Too much shiny plastic (G35 and Acura), knobs and switches that felt like parts bin goodies(G35 and Acura again), flimsy doors, cramped cabin (Audi A4, as much as I loved the driving), or I just don't like the materials they used for the interior (even the Audi felt like I was sliding around everywhere, and the steering wheel leather was smooth-grained, something I hate).

Everything on my E46, (down to the rubberized radio knob and slightly grippy feeling plastic on the cupholders) just felt really solid, well put together, and designed to touch instead of look good in a brochure. Aside from the sloppy fit on some of the X3's interior panels, I don't see BMW slipping enough in that regard to turn me off of the E90. And if they do, I'll just choke up a little extra and move to the Audi A6 (no way I'm buying a 5er with those eyebrows ).
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Old 02-17-2005, 11:14 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ts325
Lexus...didn't even bother, they look like sausages someone left under the sink for a week. Bad proportions, and it's still just a fancy Toyota. I'd buy a Scion TC before I bought a Lexus.

I haven't seen anything under $45K that compares to BMW's build quality, and I don't really care if Infiniti and Acura stuff more HP into their weak little engines. HP doesn't make much of a difference under 120mph, it's all about the torque for daily driving and anything other than straight-line racing. I was set to buy a new 330i, but now it just looks dated to me, I'll gladly wait to compare the E90.
looks are subjective, but Lexus' reliablity is far superior to BMW's. check out this years JD Power initial quality ratings(check my thread here; http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234562).

speaking of looks, i'm not feeling the the e90 or e60 at all- i'd rather drive a 3rd gen(98-04) Lexus GS 300\430 if i had to choose(against the new gen 3 or 5 series). of course, my next BMW will be an e46 m3 hopefully- because other than that, i don't really have a desire for the new generation bimmers.
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Old 02-18-2005, 06:09 AM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SST
Believe me, I haven't forgot that at all.
I was born in Europe so I understand there is more than just the US market.

I was addressing BMW's dicision to use a 3.0 engine in both the 325 and 330.
In the 325 the 3.0 engine puts out an underacheiver output. So, in terms of tax on high cc's for you folks, you may as well get the 330 with the same displacement. If you're going to be charged for the cc's you may as well get more out of them.
The advantages of having a smaller engine, like lighter weight, lower tax for some, lower insurance, etc... gets negated when they choose to use the same size engine in both the 325 and 330. I was addressing those 2 in particular as that is on only option in the US.

TT
Here in Europe the 325i has a 2.5 engine with 218hp. I think it's pretty weird that BMW sells a 3.0 325i in the U.S. Altough it might have something to do with marketing because a 2.5l engine is considered to be a small engine in the U.S.
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Old 02-18-2005, 08:23 AM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ts325
Looks are all subjective anyway; I could really care less what the press or message boards say about looks. I either like it or I don't. I think there's a lot of people who probably would have liked the "Bangle" look if the columnists hadn't jumped on it, but there's a lot of weak-minded consumers who actually listen to movie reviews and style critiques..

And if they do, I'll just choke up a little extra and move to the Audi A6 (no way I'm buying a 5er with those eyebrows ).
I guess the critics are agreeing with you...or are you agreeing with them...or...

I don't think the BMW buyer is much swayed by comments about stylistic issues. Those who know how a BMW performs realize there is more than what the clothes hint at. Those who buy based on looks alone have a different asthetic they are concerned with, and along with that some (not all) may be swayed by what others may think.
I agree and as I said, it's your choice and my choice and his/her choice.
Great, but after all that we still have to have something to ramble on about.
So, I do NOT like the Z4. It's U-G-L-Y it ain't got no alibi, it's UGLY!

There is more E46 in the E90 than there is Z4, thankfully BMW woke up before it was too late.

TT
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Old 02-18-2005, 09:59 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Cobra
looks are subjective, but Lexus' reliablity is far superior to BMW's. check out this years JD Power initial quality ratings(check my thread here; http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234562).

speaking of looks, i'm not feeling the the e90 or e60 at all- i'd rather drive a 3rd gen(98-04) Lexus GS 300\430 if i had to choose(against the new gen 3 or 5 series). of course, my next BMW will be an e46 m3 hopefully- because other than that, i don't really have a desire for the new generation bimmers.
Reliability and Initial Quality are *hardly* the same thing.

Aside from that, there's really no such thing as an unreliable car these days. An unreliable car is one that will leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere. That said, I think a german engine block is at least 10X as bullet proof as a japanese one.
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Old 02-18-2005, 10:02 AM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SST
I guess the critics are agreeing with you...or are you agreeing with them...or...

I don't think the BMW buyer is much swayed by comments about stylistic issues. Those who know how a BMW performs realize there is more than what the clothes hint at. Those who buy based on looks alone have a different asthetic they are concerned with, and along with that some (not all) may be swayed by what others may think.
I agree and as I said, it's your choice and my choice and his/her choice.
Great, but after all that we still have to have something to ramble on about.
So, I do NOT like the Z4. It's U-G-L-Y it ain't got no alibi, it's UGLY!

There is more E46 in the E90 than there is Z4, thankfully BMW woke up before it was too late.

TT
The Z4 is arguably the best looking car that BMW has had in years. Right after the Z8, of course. You need to appreciate that good-looks come in a variety of styles, SST.
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Old 02-19-2005, 04:21 AM   #371
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Cool E90 on ice

[URL=http://cleany.sportbilen.se/bmw3sreie_sportbilen.se.wmv]
Sorry,the hyperlink do not work properly.

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Old 02-19-2005, 08:40 AM   #372
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The Z4's angular and avant-garde, it's going to provoke reactions either way. I like everything but the way the front clip is put on, that panel line angling down from the hood opening across the front quarters just looks "bolt-on" to me. It's got a really interesting rear, and I like the off-center cabin and long hood, sort of reminds me of old racing coupes, like the Cheetah. I'm not in the market for a roadster, but I like it more than most of the others on the market (although the MB SLK is gorgeous).
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Old 02-19-2005, 11:48 AM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
Reliability and Initial Quality are *hardly* the same thing.

Aside from that, there's really no such thing as an unreliable car these days. An unreliable car is one that will leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere. That said, I think a german engine block is at least 10X as bullet proof as a japanese one.
believe me, Toyota\Lexus' reliability and initial quality is superior. the issue here isn't an unreliable car that'll break down on you, its more or less how problematic a car is, serious or not.
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Old 02-19-2005, 12:39 PM   #374
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believe me, Toyota\Lexus' reliability and initial quality is superior. the issue here isn't an unreliable car that'll break down on you, its more or less how problematic a car is, serious or not.
Not really... but here's a link to a story, taken from this thread.
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Old 02-20-2005, 06:28 PM   #375
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Cool New 3 Series Touring & Z4 M Spotted

Spyphotos
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Old 02-22-2005, 04:21 AM   #376
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i believe those pics were already posted
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Old 02-22-2005, 10:30 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
The Z4 is arguably the best looking car that BMW has had in years. Right after the Z8, of course. You need to appreciate that good-looks come in a variety of styles, SST.
You need to appreciate that just because someone disagrees with your assessment of "style" does not mean they don't appreciate style or understand it.
The Z8 is gorgeous, downright sexy. The Z3 is more along the lines of the Z8. I prefer the Z3 in proportion and voluptuousness. The Z4 is too angular and busy to be sexy. Whereas the Z3 was a sexy cute girl dressed in minimal makeup and clothing the Z4 is an ugly girl trying to hide it by wearing too much makeup and wacked clothing. It tries too hard.
Judging from it's lackluster sales, many would be buyers agree.

I appreciate many styles of automobiles. Don't mistake your disagreement with me as making your tastes superior, you would be wrong.

TT

Last edited by SST; 02-22-2005 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 02-22-2005, 10:32 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by SST
You need to appreciate that just because someone disagrees with your assessment of "style" does not mean they don't appreciate style or understand it.
The Z8 is gorgeous, downright sexy. The Z3 is more along the lines of the Z8. I prefer the Z3 in proportion and voluptuousness. The Z4 is too angular and busy to be sexy. Whereas the Z3 was a sexy cute girl dressed in minimal makeup and clothing the Z4 is an ugly girl trying to hide it by wearing too much makeup and wacked clothing. It tries too hard.

I appreciate many styles of automobiles. Don't mistake your disagreement with me as making your tastes superior, you would be wrong.

TT
Sure.
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Old 02-22-2005, 10:36 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by xxpaintmepunkxx
Sure.

That's it?
That's all you got?

You make such generalized comments about my tastes, as if you know what they are, and then that's all you have to offer?

Just as well. Maybe now it will end.

TT
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Old 02-22-2005, 10:51 AM   #380
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You two guys are still arguing over the Z4 after all this time. Please don't stop!

xxpaintmepunkxx, you don't have to take that from him! Tell him what's up!

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