E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-01-2014, 10:39 AM   #1
bagher
Account closed.
 
bagher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,917
Send a message via AIM to bagher
tax raise vs tax cuts, which state did better?

California increased taxes, GOP led Kansas cut taxes, guess which state is doing better?

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinion...economics.html
bagher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 12:40 PM   #2
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 335
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Well this certainly appears to be a thorough analysis
__________________

Herbert Camacho '16

"Every age has its peculiar folly: Some scheme, project, or fantasy into which it plunges, spurred on by the love of gain, the necessity of excitement, or the force of imitation." - Charles Mackay Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841)
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2014, 01:27 PM   #3
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 118
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
More thorough than anything actually supporting the effectiveness of supply-side, tinkle-down, coddle-the-rich economics propounded by the right/GOP and sadly acceded to by the Dems the past 30 years or so.

In real world practice, it seems supply side economics basically slaps all but the richest Americans upside the face, as Kansas now seems bent upon learning for itself in its rapidly falling economic status in the Brownback era.
Rhumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 03:31 PM   #4
Marshmallow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Joisey, Mid MI
Posts: 2,122
My Ride: Ehhh...
Yep this is such conclusive evidence focusing on one state that is one of the top 5 most important and one that is in the bottom 5.
Marshmallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 04:26 PM   #5
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 335
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow View Post
Yep this is such conclusive evidence focusing on one state that is one of the top 5 most important and one that is in the bottom 5.
State A: Male governor
State B: Female governor

State B outfperorms State A in random criteria: "See we tried it your way, men just aren't effective leaders!"

idiots
__________________

Herbert Camacho '16

"Every age has its peculiar folly: Some scheme, project, or fantasy into which it plunges, spurred on by the love of gain, the necessity of excitement, or the force of imitation." - Charles Mackay Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841)
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 04:27 PM   #6
Marshmallow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Joisey, Mid MI
Posts: 2,122
My Ride: Ehhh...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
State A: Male governor

State B: Female governor



State B outfperorms State A in random criteria: "See we tried it your way, men just aren't effective leaders!"



idiots

And if State A did better it's because of sexism.
Marshmallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 04:41 PM   #7
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 335
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow View Post
And if State A did better it's because of sexism.
Classic shallow infographic arguing
__________________

Herbert Camacho '16

"Every age has its peculiar folly: Some scheme, project, or fantasy into which it plunges, spurred on by the love of gain, the necessity of excitement, or the force of imitation." - Charles Mackay Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841)
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 04:49 PM   #8
5ynd1cat3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 507
My Ride: pisses off liberals
Came in expecting "article" from Mother Jones. Instead got "article" from the network Al Gore sold out to.

Fvcking gold!
__________________
5ynd1cat3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 05:24 PM   #9
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pyongyang, NK
Posts: 624
My Ride: A car
I am wondering if anyone here actually read it.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 05:48 PM   #10
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Alive & Kicking
Posts: 4,904
My Ride: F
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
I am wondering if anyone here actually read it.
I skimmed through it earlier but when I get time, I'd like to read through it again and digest what's being published here to understand if all the facts line up.
__________________
"In any system with finite resources and infinite expansion of population—like your business, or like all of humanity—innovation is essential for not only success but also survival. The innovators are our leaders. You cannot separate the two. Whether it is by thought, technology or organization, innovation is our only hope to solve our challenges."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 07:41 PM   #11
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 841
My Ride: 2011 BMW 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
I am wondering if anyone here actually read it.


Not many.

It's simply showing the Laffer Curve theory in action. Bias aside, it's an interesting article from a economic standpoint. Tax cuts don't always = success, despite what some claim, is the moral of the story.
__________________
Buy my car: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...9093/overview/


Present
2011 BMW 335d - die kohle rollen
Past
2011 BMW 135i, 2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 08:04 PM   #12
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pyongyang, NK
Posts: 624
My Ride: A car
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post


Not many.

It's simply showing the Laffer Curve theory in action. Bias aside, it's an interesting article from a economic standpoint. Tax cuts don't always = success, despite what some claim, is the moral of the story.
Yep. Quickly highlights what can go wrong when applied absolutely and incorrectly. Allowing business profits taxfree created a great loophole. Personally I think giving tax breaks to businesses is alittle backwards. Give them to the consumers. They will create the demand that drives growth. Also the extreme application, as mentioned, hurt Kansas revenue. It is basic finance. If expenses > revenue the difference must come from somewhere. If it cant be covered by taxes perhaps investment/loans which come with a high interest (tax) rate. Not much in economics is absolute, but it seems ideology is full of them.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 09:56 PM   #13
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Alive & Kicking
Posts: 4,904
My Ride: F
Meanwhile over on Forbes.

Quote:
Governor Brownback's Promises Become Reality For Kansas

Last week, the Kansas Department of Labor and the U. S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) released October 2014 jobs and earnings reports that are sure to galvanize the nationwide push for sensible state tax policy.

In the two years since Kansas’ tax-reform measures went into effect, the promises of Governor Sam Brownback’s administration are becoming a reality. I challenge tax-and-spend naysayers to dispute the following facts:

8,400 seasonally adjusted non-farm jobs have been added since September;
Workers saw their earnings grow by 3.3 percent in a year; and
The Sunflower State’s unemployment rate is now 4.4 percent, down from 5.2 percent a year ago.

And this week, even more good news was released. Nine Kansas counties now have an unemployment rate of less than 2 percent. (Rates below 4 percent are considered full employment.) In Wallace County, which now has an unemployment rate below 1.5 percent, just 18 people are unemployed and actively seeking work. Combined, the 20 counties of northwest Kansas have an unemployment rate of just 2.23 percent.

Justin McFarland, Kansas Director of Labor Market Information, rightfully proclaimed that the employment gain “continues to lead Kansas’ comeback from the Great Recession” and that the “increased income will continue to drive growth.”

This is good news for working families and their employers. Not so much for Brownback’s well-funded opponents, including the National Education Association and the American Federation of Teachers, which spent $60 million to defeat fiscal conservatives in the mid-term elections.

Powerful adversaries of Brownback’s pro-growth tax policies painted a dire “sky is falling” picture of the countless misfortunes that were sure to destroy the state’s economic future. While they may want to say and believe as they wish, the proof is in the numbers.

And while data is critical to the political process of creating good state fiscal policy, the most important figure is the 2.9 million people who live in Kansas whose lives are impacted by these policies. Kansans elect the people who are tasked with solving problems, and as the facts emerge, it appears that they have chosen wisely.The quantitative, 50-state data that is thoroughly documented in An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of States (which I co-authored with Stephen Moore, Art Laffer, and Travis H. Brown) shows that every measure of economic prosperity is linked to taxation. Those states that limit or eliminate distortionary taxes, the worst of which are those placed on personal and business income, are able to expand their local economies.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinqu...ty-for-kansas/
__________________
"In any system with finite resources and infinite expansion of population—like your business, or like all of humanity—innovation is essential for not only success but also survival. The innovators are our leaders. You cannot separate the two. Whether it is by thought, technology or organization, innovation is our only hope to solve our challenges."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 10:00 PM   #14
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Alive & Kicking
Posts: 4,904
My Ride: F
Quote:
Originally Posted by evolved View Post


Not many.

It's simply showing the Laffer Curve theory in action. Bias aside, it's an interesting article from a economic standpoint. Tax cuts don't always = success, despite what some claim, is the moral of the story.
Would you attribute corporations sitting on profits and not trickling down those dollars to workers as part of the reason the trickle-down economics theory isn't valid as of late?
__________________
"In any system with finite resources and infinite expansion of population—like your business, or like all of humanity—innovation is essential for not only success but also survival. The innovators are our leaders. You cannot separate the two. Whether it is by thought, technology or organization, innovation is our only hope to solve our challenges."
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:17 AM   #15
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 118
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
It Brownback himself who was touting his foray into deep-dive Tinkle-Down economics would set an example for the rest of the country, the "Kansas Red State Experiment."

To quote:

Quote:
"On taxes, you need to get your overall rates down, and you need to get your social manipulation out of it, in my estimation, to create growth. We'll see how it works. We'll have a real live experiment!"
Sam Brownback appearing on Morning Joe on MSNBC, ~June 19, 2012

Well, we're all seeing how it works (not so well, per the usual) and thus its certainly fair to call him (Kansas) out on that failed "experiment" and to cite some counter examples of states that raised taxes and are doing well (California).

Is this in any way definitive? Of course not but neither is it illegitimate to raise either. However, given the rather dreary record of large tax cuts, generally highly tilted to the rich and powerful, to actually reduce deficits and debt and enhance economic stability, I would say the Kansas Experiment is but another nail in an already bristling coffin for Tinkle Down Economics.
Rhumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:36 AM   #16
Act of God
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 335
My Ride: Beach Cruiser
Send a message via AIM to Act of God
It rained today, I got a raise!

RAIN CAUSES RAISES!!!!!
__________________

Herbert Camacho '16

"Every age has its peculiar folly: Some scheme, project, or fantasy into which it plunges, spurred on by the love of gain, the necessity of excitement, or the force of imitation." - Charles Mackay Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841)
Act of God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:38 AM   #17
Marshmallow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Joisey, Mid MI
Posts: 2,122
My Ride: Ehhh...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
It rained today, I got a raise!

RAIN CAUSES RAISES!!!!!
I motion that we pour water on all major cities in order to give people raises and stimulate the economy.
Marshmallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:49 AM   #18
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pyongyang, NK
Posts: 624
My Ride: A car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow View Post
I motion that we pour water on all major cities in order to give people raises and stimulate the economy.
Dont be like the poster above you.
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:50 AM   #19
Marshmallow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Joisey, Mid MI
Posts: 2,122
My Ride: Ehhh...
Quote:
Originally Posted by badfast View Post
Dont be like the poster above you.
It's a bit late for that, don't you think?
Marshmallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:53 AM   #20
badfast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pyongyang, NK
Posts: 624
My Ride: A car
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshmallow View Post
It's a bit late for that, don't you think?
You are 19 or 20? Do you think it is too late?
badfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2016 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use