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Old 06-03-2005, 09:57 AM   #21
doug
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Let's face it, Toyotas and Hondas don't have issues such as rear subframe damage or having to replace the control arms repeatedly.
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Old 06-03-2005, 11:04 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug
Let's face it, Toyotas and Hondas don't have issues such as rear subframe damage or having to replace the control arms repeatedly.


they do have other issues.


I have owned Toyotas (well....just a supra) and Hondas
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Old 06-03-2005, 11:58 AM   #23
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It's not just BMW

This is a long post but it is a cut and paste of the conversations going on in the G35 Forum. It's really all the same wherever you go...

Enthusiasts are just impossible to please!!!

I dropped my car off last night for some routine maintence. I told the service guy that I was hearing a strange rattle from the passenger side of the car when I was driving.



Ah heck I just started getting the same thing. Seems to be right when I take off and from the rear. I dont know when it started though because I can only hear it if my windows are down AND my radio is off which is rare, but I noticed it a week or so ago.

This is ridiculous...this is gonna be like the 4th TSB I've had to take it in for. 95k miles on my old Civic and it never had to go in for anything except the exhaust manifold at 90k miles....



It seems everytime I goto get my oil changed the dealer always fcuks something up. Last time they scratched my fender.



I have singled my noise issue down to the throw out bearing, but dont know what the consequences are if I do nothing about it.

If you read my previous thread, I was experiencing a high pitched but not too loud "howl" from the clutch when shifting ~4k rpms or higher.

Should I ensure replacement since I am under warranty, or is this supposed to be "normal".



my drives side window creaks,not much only when i open the door and when i hit a bump,anyone knowing what this could be....? i looked at the window with the door open,and their a little tear in the rubber near the window..think that will do it




My friends G35 has the following problems. Ever since he took his car to a dealer and the battery died and they jumped it, his alarm did not work. To fix his alarm, he took off the bottom part of the dash below the steering well and removed a fuse and put it back in a few moments later. This cleared up the problem with the alarm, now his speedometer does not work and his VDC off and abs lights are lit. And the odometer isnt reading. Does anyone know what this could be or how to fix it?



Just curious if anyone else has experienced this problem. A few months ago my driver's side window wouldn't work for about 10 minutes. After numerous attempts to lower it, it beagan working again. It stopped working again yesterday until today when I used the remote feature to lower the windows. Only the passenger window went down. After starting the car, my window started working again. Motor going bad? Loose connection? What do you think?




Just recently, everytime i shift from 1st 2nd and 3rd i hear a clicking noise is anyone else having this issue? never noticed it before but I noticed it a few weeks ago riding with volume.



i was driving back home tonight and dropped it in 4th @ about 80 mph and then floored it till i got to 90. as soon as i let off the gas, the engine just shut off.. i lost power steering, rpms were at 0, check oil and engine lights were on. i just coasted in neutral and pulled over and restart my engine. im guessing this is because of my injen intake or maybe even the car.




I just got the 2005 G35 Coupe M6 package. The shifter rattles. Ive driven a Honda Civic and an Audi A4 Quattro and i never experianced this problem. Is this a G35 thing? or should I get it checked out!!



How come when I leave the key in the ignition, in the OFF position, my battery dies after approx. 24hrs? This never happened on my prior cars...



After a drive, I pull in the drive way and when I sit in neutral....a nasty grindy sound from the front of the car??????? When I press the clutch it goes away...



its been a month since i got my AT G
it has 750 miles right now and recently i heard gear grinding (twice)
i put mine in garage and i dont drive it right away.
i wait about 2~3 minutes after i turn it on. (RPM around 1)
so i back up from my garage and i shift my gear from reverse to drive then...as soon as i step on the gas (gradually), it makes this (grinding?) sound for a second or two
anyone has any idea?



I have about 8500 miles on my coupe and owned it for less than 5 months. I prayed and thought that I'll get used to it, that I'll like it (like everybody else on this forum), that it's good, awesome and all this stuff. BUT, I'm dissapointed to admit, that the manual transmission in this car, is totally inadequate (to say the least). It's the opposite of smooth, it shakes, it trembles, it's got ... Parkinson !!! You hear a "clonk" noise for every gear engaged, overall it just gives me the feel of an unrefined transmission. For a 40k car, which aspires to be a BMW-beater, it really doesn't cut it ! I heard that the BMW transmission is perfectly smooth



Six weeks old, 2100 on the odometer, no tailgating, and yet I have a huge ding to my front grill today (definitely a stone) which has gone right down to the plastic right next to the emblem, and an 8" crack in my windshield from a small stone.

This is on top of a rash in the clearcoat on my right wing - loads of tiny spots in the clearcoat - which the dealer assures me must have been caused by something "...thrown up by the tires" at around 200 miles.

I am really disappointed in the resilience of the finishes on a $39k car


my thrid gear is grinding pretty bad, infiniti doesnt want to do anything about it. except tell me to buy a clutch. anybody had a similar problem. and had to have there tranni replaced or what ever please post here. i intend to take it to the infiniti people since they say they have never experienced this problem. if you could please tell what you problem was and if they fixed it and how.
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Old 06-03-2005, 02:19 PM   #24
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If you like the way it drives then just shut up, whiner.

So all this *****ing and moaning is for what? If you can't take the tradeoff of driving one of the best-feeling sport cars on the road BUT having to deal with less-than-Japanese-quality reliability, then GO BUY SOMETHING ELSE.

(Rant forthcoming because it's Friday and I'm bored): I'm sick of you fake "enthusiasts" and juvenile idiots leased to the eyeballs wasting board space complaining about your bimmers. ALL THE DATA (CR, JD, etc etc etc) has *always* said that BMW reliability fares better than other german brands ('cept Porsche), but lags behind the Japanese brands. SO IT SHOULDN'T BE A SURPRISE, ENTHUSIAST! Tell you what - why don't you save yourself the aggravation and us the bother, trade in your leased headache and go rice up a Honda! At least you'll be happy.

I've had numerous issues, TSBs, etc to manage with my '03 325i and I just accept that I'm going to put time and money (well, actually no money yet as the warranty and maintenance plans are so comprehensive and every time I have to part with my car my dealer service dept gives me a 3, 4, or 5 of some various flavor to test drive for a day or two - not exactly a BAD thing) into keeping it running and having the fun of driving such a dynamically excellent car. Bottom line: you're not going to get it all ways with BMW and no one except BMW marketing ever claimed that you would. Running to these boards with your sob stories only demonstrates that you're too dumb or lazy to do research beforehand or too dumb or lazy to distinguish between marketing hype and reality.

AND STOP WITH ALL THE CONSUMER REPORTS THIS and CONSUMER REPORTS THAT crap. Remember: some VW models fell off their "recommended" list because of a bad window clip problem and others because of a batch of bad coils. Whatever - I use CR for reviewing things like washing machines and lawn mowers, not influencing my decision on something that has as many personal desires and issues involved as a car decision. So if CR is going to influence you, then how about looking at it BEFORE you buy a car (and get the Accord, Camry or Civic) rather than showing up on the boards with your thumb up your butt and whining about your stoopidity.

(end rant - thank you for your patience)

And kudos to this take on the issue from RS Jean: "Lets keep things in perspective, German cars are very good in reliability. ALL cars these days are very good in terms of reliability these days. The Japanese are just better."



Back to the original poster with the '04 and 22k miles: you're still 28k miles in warranty so why freak out?! And if you did a little research here or had a brief but honest talk with your tech and asked them about the trans fluid you would find that it's universally agreed that you should change the fluid (at the very least) somewhere around 50k miles. And yes, it costs between $400-$600 depending on where you go to get it changed on an elective basis. But keep in mind: you're not paying for brakes, belts, hoses, fluids or anything else for the maintenance period and IF you were smart enough to buy the factory-issued extended maintenance plan for $1200 when you got the car they'll pay for all of that stuff up to 100k miles and add two more years to the deal, covering maint. for 7 years or 100k miles. Hell, that's the cost of your ~60k service alone, or an oil change and brake job. I think they even give you the option to buy that any time you're still covered by the original maint. plan. Not a bad deal. And if you're not paying for maint., materials, brakes (etc) then once out of warranty that lowers your actual maint/upkeep costs to tires and things that actually break.

So:
1) do the math with your finances
2) determine if you've to the desire to afford a sexy car that, yes unfortunately, breaks
3) and keep it or dump it

But DAMN IT - STOP WHINING ABOUT IT.

Look - had I spent my own money (and had my car not been a retention bonus from my boss), I would have bought an Acura or Lexus. I'm not a die-hard bimmer fan - a fan yes, but I wouldn't throw a lot of MY money at one. But I did the reseach, did the homework and did the math and even with an expected-to-be less-reliable car I'm going to end up paying less to maintain and drive it than had I gone Japanese (primarily b/c of weak Japanese-brand maintenance coverage plan). And I'll dump it at 100k miles and I'm OK with the risk of out-of-warranty repair bills from 50-100k miles (though I do pray to the tranny gods now and then).

So all the harsh flaming aside, this should be an easy financial/personal comfort level decision - one that people should get used to making for themselves (and from an informed standpoint because hey - THE DATA IS ALL RIGHT THERE) rather than ending up HERE with their .

Go ahead - hate me.
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Old 06-03-2005, 02:24 PM   #25
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Excellent summary!!!

It's a wrap. Close thread. Move along now - nothing to see here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makakio
So all this *****ing and moaning is for what? If you can't take the tradeoff of driving one of the best-feeling sport cars on the road BUT having to deal with less-than-Japanese-quality reliability, then GO BUY SOMETHING ELSE.

(Rant forthcoming because it's Friday and I'm bored): I'm sick of you fake "enthusiasts" and juvenile idiots leased to the eyeballs wasting board space complaining about your bimmers. ALL THE DATA (CR, JD, etc etc etc) has *always* said that BMW reliability fares better than other german brands ('cept Porsche), but lags behind the Japanese brands. SO IT SHOULDN'T BE A SURPRISE, ENTHUSIAST! Tell you what - why don't you save yourself the aggravation and us the bother, trade in your leased headache and go rice up a Honda! At least you'll be happy.

I've had numerous issues, TSBs, etc to manage with my '03 325i and I just accept that I'm going to put time and money (well, actually no money yet as the warranty and maintenance plans are so comprehensive and every time I have to part with my car my dealer service dept gives me a 3, 4, or 5 of some various flavor to test drive for a day or two - not exactly a BAD thing) into keeping it running and having the fun of driving such a dynamically excellent car. Bottom line: you're not going to get it all ways with BMW and no one except BMW marketing ever claimed that you would. Running to these boards with your sob stories only demonstrates that you're too dumb or lazy to do research beforehand or too dumb or lazy to distinguish between marketing hype and reality.

AND STOP WITH ALL THE CONSUMER REPORTS THIS and CONSUMER REPORTS THAT crap. Remember: some VW models fell off their "recommended" list because of a bad window clip problem and others because of a batch of bad coils. Whatever - I use CR for reviewing things like washing machines and lawn mowers, not influencing my decision on something that has as many personal desires and issues involved as a car decision. So if CR is going to influence you, then how about looking at it BEFORE you buy a car (and get the Accord, Camry or Civic) rather than showing up on the boards with your thumb up your butt and whining about your stoopidity.

(end rant - thank you for your patience)

And kudos to this take on the issue from RS Jean: "Lets keep things in perspective, German cars are very good in reliability. ALL cars these days are very good in terms of reliability these days. The Japanese are just better."



Back to the original poster with the '04 and 22k miles: you're still 28k miles in warranty so why freak out?! And if you did a little research here or had a brief but honest talk with your tech and asked them about the trans fluid you would find that it's universally agreed that you should change the fluid (at the very least) somewhere around 50k miles. And yes, it costs between $400-$600 depending on where you go to get it changed on an elective basis. But keep in mind: you're not paying for brakes, belts, hoses, fluids or anything else for the maintenance period and IF you were smart enough to buy the factory-issued extended maintenance plan for $1200 when you got the car they'll pay for all of that stuff up to 100k miles and add two more years to the deal, covering maint. for 7 years or 100k miles. Hell, that's the cost of your ~60k service alone, or an oil change and brake job. I think they even give you the option to buy that any time you're still covered by the original maint. plan. Not a bad deal. And if you're not paying for maint., materials, brakes (etc) then once out of warranty that lowers your actual maint/upkeep costs to tires and things that actually break.

So:
1) do the math with your finances
2) determine if you've to the desire to afford a sexy car that, yes unfortunately, breaks
3) and keep it or dump it

But DAMN IT - STOP WHINING ABOUT IT.

Look - had I spent my own money (and had my car not been a retention bonus from my boss), I would have bought an Acura or Lexus. I'm not a die-hard bimmer fan - a fan yes, but I wouldn't throw a lot of MY money at one. But I did the reseach, did the homework and did the math and even with an expected-to-be less-reliable car I'm going to end up paying less to maintain and drive it than had I gone Japanese (primarily b/c of weak Japanese-brand maintenance coverage plan). And I'll dump it at 100k miles and I'm OK with the risk of out-of-warranty repair bills from 50-100k miles (though I do pray to the tranny gods now and then).

So all the harsh flaming aside, this should be an easy financial/personal comfort level decision - one that people should get used to making for themselves (and from an informed standpoint because hey - THE DATA IS ALL RIGHT THERE) rather than ending up HERE with their .

Go ahead - hate me.
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Old 06-03-2005, 03:02 PM   #26
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I have an '04 coupe with 24k miles on it. Only problem I've had is the window trim falling off.
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Old 06-03-2005, 03:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis
My car has 6k miles on it. It has stalled a couple of times and I think it is developing a window rattle in the passenger door. I hate rattles. I have had an awful lot of cars all manual trannys and never had this strange stall problem. I haven't figured out how to prevent it as it seems to be pretty unpredictable so far.

I think the car handles great, gets very good fuel economy and is pretty quiet at high speeds. Also, having a 6sp is a plus, but I do have concerns about all the problems I read about on here. My dad is a Maxima guy. Is on his 4th and they never need anything. He drives them for 150K miles and then trades them in. He changes oil and brakes and that is it. If I were to make a guess, I don't think BMWs are very reliable cars really. I shouldn't have to deal with a stall situation on my 2004 car with such few miles on it.

Curt
So have you noticed a trend in when your car stalls? When I first got my 03 325 it always felt like the clutch was REALLY tricky on engagement. If I didn't engage it just right, it would stall. Or, I would have to slip it a bit to get a smooth takeoff. It only had 11k miles on it when I bought it. Funny thing is, at about 18k miles 2 of the ignition coils went bad. Had them replaced under warranty and after I got the car back the tricky clutch/stalling problem was gone. Weird. But now the car doesn't have the stalling issue. Don't know if these are the same things you are experiencing, but I thought I'd share my experience.

That's the only real problem I've had so far. I don't believe in the BMW maintenence plan either. I think if you take care of it, it will give you many years of good service.

And I also believe that you have to be careful about listening to consumer reports. Because it is true that they take into account every single problem that is recorded, no matter how small. Let's face it, BMW owners, along with other European car owners are going to tend to be more finicky than your typical Japanese car owner. So things that bother us may not necessarily bother your typical Toyota owner. So those cars may never have issues reported because to those owners they aren't issues. But on our precious BMW, and I know this is the way I tend to be, we can't stand the idea of it not being perfect. And sure there are some lemons out there, just like with any manufacturer. And BMW doesn't do the best job in helping those owners out to make things right. But as a brand I wouldn' go so far as to say BMWs are all unreliable cars that can't stand the test of time. But that's just the way I see it.
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Old 06-03-2005, 05:35 PM   #28
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Anybody that frequents this general forum should not be amazed by the Consumer Reports rating. On any given day you can see people complaining about transmission problems, suspension problems, headlight problems, window regulator problems, creak and rattle problems, etc.. Look around you guys, the truth has always been there you have just chosen not to see it.
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Old 06-04-2005, 12:49 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makakio
So all this *****ing and moaning is for what? If you can't take the tradeoff of driving one of the best-feeling sport cars on the road BUT having to deal with less-than-Japanese-quality reliability, then GO BUY SOMETHING ELSE.

(Rant forthcoming because it's Friday and I'm bored): I'm sick of you fake "enthusiasts" and juvenile idiots leased to the eyeballs wasting board space complaining about your bimmers. ALL THE DATA (CR, JD, etc etc etc) has *always* said that BMW reliability fares better than other german brands ('cept Porsche), but lags behind the Japanese brands. SO IT SHOULDN'T BE A SURPRISE, ENTHUSIAST! Tell you what - why don't you save yourself the aggravation and us the bother, trade in your leased headache and go rice up a Honda! At least you'll be happy.

I've had numerous issues, TSBs, etc to manage with my '03 325i and I just accept that I'm going to put time and money (well, actually no money yet as the warranty and maintenance plans are so comprehensive and every time I have to part with my car my dealer service dept gives me a 3, 4, or 5 of some various flavor to test drive for a day or two - not exactly a BAD thing) into keeping it running and having the fun of driving such a dynamically excellent car. Bottom line: you're not going to get it all ways with BMW and no one except BMW marketing ever claimed that you would. Running to these boards with your sob stories only demonstrates that you're too dumb or lazy to do research beforehand or too dumb or lazy to distinguish between marketing hype and reality.

AND STOP WITH ALL THE CONSUMER REPORTS THIS and CONSUMER REPORTS THAT crap. Remember: some VW models fell off their "recommended" list because of a bad window clip problem and others because of a batch of bad coils. Whatever - I use CR for reviewing things like washing machines and lawn mowers, not influencing my decision on something that has as many personal desires and issues involved as a car decision. So if CR is going to influence you, then how about looking at it BEFORE you buy a car (and get the Accord, Camry or Civic) rather than showing up on the boards with your thumb up your butt and whining about your stoopidity.

(end rant - thank you for your patience)

And kudos to this take on the issue from RS Jean: "Lets keep things in perspective, German cars are very good in reliability. ALL cars these days are very good in terms of reliability these days. The Japanese are just better."



Back to the original poster with the '04 and 22k miles: you're still 28k miles in warranty so why freak out?! And if you did a little research here or had a brief but honest talk with your tech and asked them about the trans fluid you would find that it's universally agreed that you should change the fluid (at the very least) somewhere around 50k miles. And yes, it costs between $400-$600 depending on where you go to get it changed on an elective basis. But keep in mind: you're not paying for brakes, belts, hoses, fluids or anything else for the maintenance period and IF you were smart enough to buy the factory-issued extended maintenance plan for $1200 when you got the car they'll pay for all of that stuff up to 100k miles and add two more years to the deal, covering maint. for 7 years or 100k miles. Hell, that's the cost of your ~60k service alone, or an oil change and brake job. I think they even give you the option to buy that any time you're still covered by the original maint. plan. Not a bad deal. And if you're not paying for maint., materials, brakes (etc) then once out of warranty that lowers your actual maint/upkeep costs to tires and things that actually break.

So:
1) do the math with your finances
2) determine if you've to the desire to afford a sexy car that, yes unfortunately, breaks
3) and keep it or dump it

But DAMN IT - STOP WHINING ABOUT IT.

Look - had I spent my own money (and had my car not been a retention bonus from my boss), I would have bought an Acura or Lexus. I'm not a die-hard bimmer fan - a fan yes, but I wouldn't throw a lot of MY money at one. But I did the reseach, did the homework and did the math and even with an expected-to-be less-reliable car I'm going to end up paying less to maintain and drive it than had I gone Japanese (primarily b/c of weak Japanese-brand maintenance coverage plan). And I'll dump it at 100k miles and I'm OK with the risk of out-of-warranty repair bills from 50-100k miles (though I do pray to the tranny gods now and then).

So all the harsh flaming aside, this should be an easy financial/personal comfort level decision - one that people should get used to making for themselves (and from an informed standpoint because hey - THE DATA IS ALL RIGHT THERE) rather than ending up HERE with their .

Go ahead - hate me.


i had way to many problems with this car. bmw took no responsibilty for
the paint imperfections around my rear tail lights.(looks like the car was
touched up at the port they claim i hit the car and tried to blame them)
i had to bring the dealer a bulletin from this board about the stalling issue
other wise they would of never fixed it...
the sa had no idea about stalling issues or a software update,and many more issues like these that make think twice about getting the same car again.
we are not talking about the perfermance of the car were talking about riliability..

Last edited by bm2u; 06-04-2005 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 06-04-2005, 12:52 AM   #30
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Gooddam, didja all hafta quote his incredibly long post?

Basically, in terms of reliability, if you choose not to take care of your Bavarian Beast, it'll crap out. Do your oil changes, etc etc on time, don't **** it up too hard, and there shouldn't be any major problems. I believe that a lot of problems are caused by the driver, not the designer/engineer.
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:37 AM   #31
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they say 2002's were the best year - in many instances to cut costs down bmw sought other vendors for parts - hence reducing the raw material quality - this leads into many other issues.
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E46Fanatics - the Honda community of gun owners. Keep staying classy, I'm sure you all are going to be excellent examples of how to keep gun rights from being infringed. :facepalm:
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:39 AM   #32
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Try an Infinity G35

I hear they are problem free

Quote:
Originally Posted by bm2u


i had way to many problems with this car. bmw took no responsibilty for
the paint imperfections around my rear tail lights.(looks like the car was
touched up at the port they claim i hit the car and tried to blame them)
i had to bring the dealer a bulletin from this board about the stalling issue
other wise they would of never fixed it...
the sa had no idea about stalling issues or a software update,and many more issues like these that make think twice about getting the same car again.
we are not talking about the perfermance of the car were talking about riliability..
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Old 06-04-2005, 07:54 AM   #33
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ur rite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
E46Fanatics - the Honda community of gun owners. Keep staying classy, I'm sure you all are going to be excellent examples of how to keep gun rights from being infringed. :facepalm:
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Old 06-04-2005, 11:50 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjean
I hear they are problem free
actually im thinking of getting a porsche.
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Old 06-04-2005, 01:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by inspector16
... And I also believe that you have to be careful about listening to consumer reports. Because it is true that they take into account every single problem that is recorded, no matter how small. Let's face it, BMW owners, along with other European car owners are going to tend to be more finicky than your typical Japanese car owner. So things that bother us may not necessarily bother your typical Toyota owner. So those cars may never have issues reported because to those owners they aren't issues. But on our precious BMW, and I know this is the way I tend to be, we can't stand the idea of it not being perfect. And sure there are some lemons out there, just like with any manufacturer. And BMW doesn't do the best job in helping those owners out to make things right. But as a brand I wouldn' go so far as to say BMWs are all unreliable cars that can't stand the test of time. But that's just the way I see it.
I may not agree with you on this. I think most European luxury car owners are more forgiving of their carís problems while most Japanese import owners (Honda / Toyota) are less forgiving of any problem. Many bought Hondas and Toyotas because of their reputation of reliability and quality. They are expecting no issues whatsoever, and will yell and scream if even the smallest thing happens.

BMW has its issues, just like any other car or make. My E46 was one of the first shipped into San Diego, and it's had some little issues here and there, but none too expensive or irritating.

Even testing newer cars, my car seems to hold it's own in terms of ride, driving dynamics, and overall quality. Even with its 95,000 miles!!!

Trust me, I'm one of the first to admit any shortcomings with my Bimmer, but there is something intangible about BMWs that has nothing to do with the badge appeal, but just pure engineering and design. An excellent balance and quality you can't quantify on paper.
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Old 06-04-2005, 03:26 PM   #36
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Reality check (what, again?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin87
Those consumer reports are pathetic and I wouldn't pay any attention to them. So many of them are saying that the reliablity of these new German cars are bad, but everyone I know (at least 10 german cars, vw, audi, merc, bmw) and none of them have had any problems. My friends 325i has 130k miles and he says that he has never had any problems. Don't worry about it, just take care of you car and you will be fine. It is a BMW .

What's pathetic about a survey of people who actually own the cars and report the problems they have had? What is pathetic is making excuses for a car brand that has demonstrated problems beause of some mis-guided loyalty. as for your buddies, your sample set size is statistically meaningless. The CR sample sets are statistically significant...and credible.

BMW has a problem, like most, if not all, German brands and they all know it.
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Old 06-04-2005, 03:37 PM   #37
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Yet another reality check (still more?)

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Originally Posted by MrGrimm
Unfortunately, the majority of people are uninformed, so they take these sorts of reports very seriously.
Consumer reports tests over-the-counter examples of products they actually buy in stores. I don't for a second believe that they would test two identical VCR's, except for label, and rate one higher than the other, UNLESS your quality control was so bad that one example actually performed better than another. This would not be surprising for a cheap product from a sloppy manufacturer. Their reliability ratings are based solely on large sample sets of products in the hands of their many subscribers (including me), not their own testing.

Consumers Union is a single organization with its own testing labs staffed by professionals. They contract out some testing that they are not equippd to do, but that is not the case with cars.

You, sir, are full of what the horse left behind.

German car reliability is basically on par with or worse than the US manufacturers and significantly worse than Japanese and Korean (of late) manufacturers. This in spite of the German brands being significantly more expensive than anyone else. They do have a problem and they better fix it.
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Old 06-04-2005, 04:05 PM   #38
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Had any funny noises when steering your Yukon? Any transmission slip going into 2nd gear?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nopcbs
Consumer reports tests over-the-counter examples of products they actually buy in stores. I don't for a second believe that they would test two identical VCR's, except for label, and rate one higher than the other, UNLESS your quality control was so bad that one example actually performed better than another. This would not be surprising for a cheap product from a sloppy manufacturer. Their reliability ratings are based solely on large sample sets of products in the hands of their many subscribers (including me), not their own testing.

Consumers Union is a single organization with its own testing labs staffed by professionals. They contract out some testing that they are not equippd to do, but that is not the case with cars.

You, sir, are full of what the horse left behind.

German car reliability is basically on par with or worse than the US manufacturers and significantly worse than Japanese and Korean (of late) manufacturers. This in spite of the German brands being significantly more expensive than anyone else. They do have a problem and they better fix it.
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Old 06-04-2005, 04:41 PM   #39
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It's always amusing...

...yet pathetic when a moron tries to look smart...

What does "The CR sample sets are statistically significant..." mean? Are you endorsing a methodology and organization you know nothing about because you feel 'the sample sets are statistically significant'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nopcbs
What's pathetic about a survey of people who actually own the cars and report the problems they have had? What is pathetic is making excuses for a car brand that has demonstrated problems beause of some mis-guided loyalty. as for your buddies, your sample set size is statistically meaningless. The CR sample sets are statistically significant...and credible.

BMW has a problem, like most, if not all, German brands and they all know it.
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Old 06-04-2005, 05:07 PM   #40
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So, let's think about this one now...

1) Have you ever been to any of their labs? Have you ever met with any of their test staff? Have you ever had to make a presentation to any of their directors? Have you ever hired an independent test lab for UL, FCC, FDA, ANSI, BIFMA or other issues and attempted to use the results to show CR that they might be wrong? Hmmm

I have.

2) The quality control standards are not likely to shift on a continuously running line manned by the same assemblers, QC testers and crew chief in a Japanese factory where units coming off the line are randomly sent to Fisher or Sanyo labeling and packaging lines throughout the same shift.

3) Wouldn't you think it a bit strange, and irresponsible, for a major testing lab and publication to label an entire model series and Brand of VCR's 'sub-standard' based on the results of one unit?

4) The implication that the problem in quality could have been due to "a cheap product from a sloppy manufacturer" are ridiculously naive. Sanyo had been a prime manufacturer of VCR for the CE industry for many years. Much of what they produced AT THE SAME FACTORY was labeled SONY.

Again, it's amusing - and pathetic - when morons try to look smart. Oh, and a moron with an attitude is even worse.

5) **** - OK?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nopcbs
Consumer reports tests over-the-counter examples of products they actually buy in stores. I don't for a second believe that they would test two identical VCR's, except for label, and rate one higher than the other, UNLESS your quality control was so bad that one example actually performed better than another. This would not be surprising for a cheap product from a sloppy manufacturer. Their reliability ratings are based solely on large sample sets of products in the hands of their many subscribers (including me), not their own testing.

Consumers Union is a single organization with its own testing labs staffed by professionals. They contract out some testing that they are not equippd to do, but that is not the case with cars.

You, sir, are full of what the horse left behind.

German car reliability is basically on par with or worse than the US manufacturers and significantly worse than Japanese and Korean (of late) manufacturers. This in spite of the German brands being significantly more expensive than anyone else. They do have a problem and they better fix it.
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