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Car Care & Detailing
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:03 AM   #41
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I have a new M3 cab-- I took delivery and there are some raised marks on canvas top-- dealer wnat to take it to a detail shop to see if they can be brushed out-- i doubt it. Have you come across this before-- Not scratches but almost look like powerwash too hard -- marks can bee seen at angle to the top like large free form lines.

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Old 07-12-2005, 11:10 AM   #42
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ATLZHP6M:

Well its tough to say if those scratches are on the surface and clear or thru to the paint with the pictures shown. Again, I'm going to suggest our summer deal with the Poorboy's SSR 2.5 + SSR 1. It will be more aggressive than the Scratch-X you tried and will work well by hand or by buffer.

Taken from Better Car Care by David Bynon

WHAT'S POSSIBLE & WHAT ISN'T
Touching up small nicks and scratches is well within the skill level of most do-it-yourself car enthusiasts. Some nicks can be quickly repaired with a small dab of touch-up paint, while others will require more time, effort and skill. Itís important to know what you should and shouldnít tackle based on your knowledge of paint and tools.

By far the easiest colors to repair are black and white. Black and white are very forgiving on shade variations. Conversely, metallic paints (those with metal flakes) can be quite difficult to match perfectly.


This is a medium scratch. You will be able to feel it with your fingernail, but it does not go through to the primer. The best way to fix this king of scratch is to round down the edges using a medium grit rubbing compound and bring back full gloss with a good polish.

Before you get started repairing nicks and scratches, you should know what to expect. Small nicks are easy to repair by filling the nick with paint, leveling the filled area, and buffing the repair area to blend and restore luster. Repairing small scratches, from a key or shopping cart, is similar, but more time consuming. Fixing a ding (a small dent which may or may not have a nick out of the paint) is not commonly possible by the do-it-yourselfer.


Deep scratches and chips that go through the color coat into the primer or down to the metal can only be repaired using touch-up paint.

Here are some other things you should know:

If you know your carís factory paint code, you can purchase an exact color match touch-up paint from your local dealer. If you donít know the factory paint code, look in your ownerís manual for the location of the code, or ask your dealer. If you have a late model car, chances are you will find a color match at your local auto parts store.

Use a small artistís paint brush (#2 is ideal) or a round, wooden toothpick to apply the touch-up paint, not the fat brush included with the bottle of touch-up paint.

Always test the touch-up paint for color match in an inconspicuous area.

The area to be repaired must be perfectly clean and free of wax, rust and oils.

Donít attempt a touch-up if the temperature is below 60 degrees F.

Hereís what you need to properly repair nicks and scratches:

Color matched touch-up paint

Automotive or metal primer

Citric acid based cleaner like P21S Total Auto Wash

Prep solvent (Prepsol) or denatured alcohol

Foam swabs (from electronics supply) or pop swabs containing alcohol

Meguiarís Unigrit Sanding Block and 1200 grit wet & dry sand paper

3M medium grit hand rubbing compound

#2 Artistís paint brush and round toothpicks (wood)

Cotton terrycloth towels

New pencils with unused erasers

Rubber cement

Plastic cups

Blue masking tape (easy release type)

Large diameter paper hole punch (hand type)

PREPARATION PROCESS
Before applying paint, you must prepare the chip to accept paint. Although paint may adhere for a while to a chip with rust, dirt or oil, eventually the repair will fail. The preparation process begins the day before you repair the paint chips and scratches.

The afternoon before starting your chip repairs, wash your car. After washing with your normal car wash, spray the areas you plan to repair with P21S Total Auto Wash, allow to sit for a minute, then scrub well with your sponge. P21S Total Auto Wash will remove all wax and oil from your paint. Dry your car thoroughly and put it away for the night.

After washing your car, make up several sanding pencils. Use a hole punch to punch out a few dots from the 1200 grit wet and dry paper. Apply the sandpaper dots to the end of your pencil eraser with rubber cement. Allow them to dry over night. You will use the sanding pencils to scuff-up and clean out nicks.

To make a chip ready for touch-up paint, you must make sure it does not have loose edges, clean it, and sand it. I use a toothpick to check the edges of a chip. If loose or lifted, I use the toothpick to knock off the loose paint. To clean, I like to use denatured alcohol or Prepsol and a foam swab. I pour a little bit into a plastic cup and use a foam swab to clean the chip and surrounding area.

Next, I use a sanding pencil to clean out the chip and rough-up the edges. Simply dip the sanding pencil into a cup of clean water, dab a few drops of water on the chip, and gently rotate the sanding pencil over the chip. Keep the area you sand as small as possible. Rotating the sanding pencil back and forth in your fingers 8-10 times should be enough to do the job. If the chip has exposed bare metal, or if you can see rust forming, use the edge of the pencil erasure to remove the rust. When you finish sanding the chip, dry it with a terrycloth towel and clean it again with Prepsol and a foam swab.

Continued to next post...
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:10 AM   #43
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continued from previous post...

APPLYING TOUCH-UP PAINT
Once the damaged areas are cleaned and prepared, you can begin the touch-up itself. If a chip exposed bare metal, you must primer the chip before the color touch-up. After mixing thoroughly, pour or spray a small amount of your primer into a plastic cup. Next, use a clean toothpick to apply the primer. I do this by dipping just the tip (2-3 mm) of the toothpick into the primer. If I get a blob, I wipe it back.

Next, I touch the tip of the toothpick to the center of the chip and allow the paint to flow off of the toothpick into the chip. You will be amazed how well the capillary action works. If you prefer, you can use the #2 artistís brush. Do not allow the primer to overflow the sides of the chip. Allow the primer to dry for 2-3 hours. You can speed dry the primer with a hair dryer after allowing it to air dry for one hour. Simply wave the hair dryer 3-4 inches over the primered chip for 30-40 seconds. Do not touch the chips with your hands, as the oils from your skin will prevent the color coat from adhering.

Now, mix your color-matched paint thoroughly and pour a small amount into a clean plastic cup. As with the primer, use a clean toothpick or #2 artistís brush to apply the color coat. Touch the toothpick or brush to the center of the chip and allow capillary action to pull the paint into the chip. Apply a small dab at a time and allow it to dry for 2-3 hours. You must repeat this process several times, so donít try to fill the chip in one pass. Apply several thin layers, and you will get much better results.

The color touch-up process is complete when you have applied enough coats to slightly overfill the chip onto the roughed up area surrounding the chip. Once youíve filled the chip, allow it to dry for another 24 to 48 hours. The longer the better.

Iím often asked if itís necessary to apply a clear coat over chip repairs. I donít think itís necessary or adds any noticeable difference. If you get the proper touch-up paint from your dealer, it will match without using a clearcoat. However, if youíre a purist in pursuit of perfection, substitute a clearcoat for the last 2-3 coats.



Here is a close-up picture of a scratch after being repaired with touch-up paint. The touch-up creates a raised surface. In order to perfect the repair, the raised touch-up paint must be leveled. I will use 1500 grit sand paper to level the repair. If you are new to wet sanding, use 2000 or 2500 grit paper. I recommend 3M brand paper or Meguiar's UniGrit.


LEVEL & BUFF
Until you level or mill the paint repair down to the same plane as the original paint, all youíll have is an ugly looking blob. This is easily done using the Meguiarís Unigrit Sanding Block, which helps remove sags, runs and other isolated defects with surgical precision. Donít forget to soak it overnight before use, as the directions indicate.

To level your paint chips, use your finger to put a small dab of car shampoo on the chip repair for lubrication. Next, use the Unigrit Sanding Block or 3M sanding paper to mill the high spot off of the chip repair. I always pull the sanding block towards me. Never rub it back and forth or in a circle. When the block dries out, dip it into your bucket of water again. Keep the area well lubricated with water and shampoo. The sanding block will dull the paint. Donít fear, as your polish will easily restore the luster. When the surface looks level, dry it with a clean towel and inspect with your fingertips. If you can feel a high spot, it needs more work.



This picture shows the repair area after a couple of passes with 1500 grit wet & dry sand paper. The scratch touch-up is almost level, and you can clearly see the surface scratches (micro-marring) I put in the paint surface.


The final step is to buff out the repair with a good hand polish. I like to use Poorboy's SSR 2.5 or Menzerna Intensive Polish (fine or medium grit compounds) followed by Poorboy's SSR 1 or Menzerna Final Polish II. Apply the compound and polish to a clean foam applicator pad, rub into the paint area using a short back and forth motion (not in circles), then buff out with a clean terrycloth towel. Tada! The blemish is gone.


The next step is to compound and polish. I did fewer than 20 passes (strokes) with rubbing compound. It does not take much to remove surface scratches. To completely polish and restore the surface, I polished the area twice.



As you can see, the repair and paint finish turned out to be quite beautiful. There are no visible surface marks in the paint, and the touch-up cannot be detected.


SUMMARY
Learning to repair paint chips and scratches is not difficult. After buffing out a few scratches and filling a couple of chips, you will become comfortable with the process. The reward is a great looking car and a lot of money saved. Most paint shops won't bother with repairing chips because it's often faster for them to repaint an entire panel. If you keep up with repairing the chips and scratches, you can avoid repainting for a long time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope that helps!
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:19 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzy727
I have a new M3 cab-- I took delivery and there are some raised marks on canvas top-- dealer wnat to take it to a detail shop to see if they can be brushed out-- i doubt it. Have you come across this before-- Not scratches but almost look like powerwash too hard -- marks can bee seen at angle to the top like large free form lines.

Thanks
Mike
I doubt there would be anything they could do either, I mean if they were going to just brush it out you could just pick up an upholstery brush and try it yourself. I don't think there is any science to it, nor much you can do once its damaged... Do you have any pics of the marks?

George
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Old 07-12-2005, 11:54 AM   #45
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George -I will take pics tonight or tmrw-I will try to get a few lease payments and or a hardtop for this rather than replace top which will only lead to creaks and nosies

Mike
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:07 PM   #46
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Sorry, this doesn't have to do with my field of specialty but I have some shops I can ask around to try to come up with a solution. I'll get back to you.

k thanks for taken the time
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:34 PM   #47
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k thanks for taken the time
I talked to two different people who deal with vinyl and I have a few ideas for you. One suggestion was to use soapy water underneath the vinyl and a squeegy on top of the piece to help flatten out the bubbles. He said the soapy mixture underneat will give a little bit of flexibility to help push the vinyl around enough to rid the bubbles. Another suggestion was to use a heat gun but said it might be risky and could potentially burn thru the vinyl. A third suggestion was to take a fine pin and pop the bubbles and work that way. So a few options, I'm not saying any will work but something you can try if you already haven't!
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:41 PM   #48
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with the soapy water idea....do i clean the piece with soapy water then let it dry..or do i actually apply the vinyl on the wet surface..i think im going to try the needle idea see how that goes..thanks for the suggestions though
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:42 PM   #49
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with the soapy water idea....do i clean the piece with soapy water then let it dry..or do i actually apply the vinyl on the wet surface..i think im going to try the needle idea see how that goes..thanks for the suggestions though
From what I got out of it you work with it wet.
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Old 07-12-2005, 12:54 PM   #50
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Old 07-12-2005, 01:03 PM   #51
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if its wet then how does the vinyl stick?...does make sense that it would fix airbubbles but i dont know how the vinyl would stick afterwards hah
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Old 07-12-2005, 01:07 PM   #52
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Thanks for all the information man. I'm bookmarking this thread.
You can expect an order from me within the month.
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Old 07-12-2005, 03:51 PM   #53
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if its wet then how does the vinyl stick?...does make sense that it would fix airbubbles but i dont know how the vinyl would stick afterwards hah
If you donít mind Detailed Image, I would like to respond to this one. The reason for soapy water is for you to have more flexibility when working with vinyl, little to no bubbles, correct alignment, and the ability to take it off if you donít like where its at while you are working with it. The soapy water will not affect the vinyl to adhere to the surface; this is why you squeegee the vinyl once you have the right position to make sure you donít have any bubbles and water. Once you done thatÖthere is a curing time aprox. 1 sunny day, but it will hold pretty well once you squeegee it. Make sure you wet both the surface and the vinyl for better flexibilityÖand have patience, and take your time. (its almost the same process for window tinting)

Is the CF masked? Its best to have it masked so you can work with it better and leave fewer scratches on it.

Have a very sharp razor.

If you donít feel comfortable with the projectÖjust ask for help at any vinyl/sticker shop, they may just let you use their soapy water (sometimes its alcohol)

I owned a custom sticker shop for a long time, now itís just a hobby.
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Old 07-12-2005, 04:36 PM   #54
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Bavarian46,

Thanks for taking that one for me! As I said it was out of my area so I was outsourcing that answer. I appreciate the clarifications on the area. Glad to have you aboard

Sincerely,

George @ Detailed Image
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Old 07-12-2005, 05:59 PM   #55
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thanks alot for that response..now im ready to try it out....thanks both of you for the input
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:21 PM   #56
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What is a good tire shine that you recommend. Something that shines nice but also doesnt splatter all over the car as you drive away. Also whats a good applicator pad, Whenever i shine my tires up, i get everything in my fingernails and all over my hands
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:22 PM   #57
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Thank you George
You provided extremely helpful information that I needed and Iím grateful

Jerry
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:36 PM   #58
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hey George, it's me again, lol.

I took some of your tips on here and worked on my mom's Expedition and it worked great. She was impressed. Now she wants to know, on her other car (1995 Nissan Maxima, completely neglected). It's completely oxidized, the paint has black dots all over it and it's more dull than primer. Is this paint even savable? Or should we just go ahead and repaint the whole damn thing.

-Ken
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:39 PM   #59
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thanks for the information very helpful
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Old 07-12-2005, 08:50 PM   #60
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i give up...tried the soapy water and it didnt work....my dash pieces are to curvey i guess...if it was a straight piece then it would be fine..anyone know any vinyl places in NJ that would do this
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