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Old 09-20-2005, 10:45 AM   #1
///Matt
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M3s at the track

I was at a road course in Michigan (Grattan) a few weeks ago and there were some E46 ///M3s in my run group.

I was kinda surprised that I was able to pass them because they have about 100 more hp than I do and I understood them to be pretty good track cars.
Some E46 M3 owners were complaining that they hated the run flat tires. Are the stock tires really that bad?

The only cars that really passed me were an STi and a supercharged E36 ///M3, although the E36 ///M3 and I were passing each other back and forth, playing a little tag since we were both a little bored out there.
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Old 09-20-2005, 11:43 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt330i
I was kinda surprised that I was able to pass them because they have about 100 more hp than I do and I understood them to be pretty good track cars.
It depends on the driver. An experience driver in a lesser car and overrun a novice in a higher performance car. I've seen CRX's with stickies pass Z06's on the track even though the CRX can barely make it to 90mph on a straight. It really comes down to entry and exit speeds on the corners. Someone who knows how to drive will be able to carry more speed into the corner and exit with more speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt330i
Some E46 M3 owners were complaining that they hated the run flat tires. Are the stock tires really that bad?
E46 M3's don't have run flats. Those guys don't know their cars very well.
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Old 09-20-2005, 12:49 PM   #3
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grattan is one of those tracks that a better driver in a slower car can pass a worse driver in a faster car.
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Old 09-20-2005, 01:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Will ZCPM3
grattan is one of those tracks that a better driver in a slower car can pass a worse driver in a faster car.
perhaps that's it. Although I'm only on my 3rd school and it was an intermediate run group so no novices. We should have been pretty close in skill level and my car only has a 1.3 liter engine.
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Old 09-20-2005, 02:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Will ZCPM3
grattan is one of those tracks that a better driver in a slower car can pass a worse driver in a faster car.
Most track are.

Ive seen a stock rental V6 mustang beat SC'ed cobras on a roadcourse. Its all driver.
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Old 09-20-2005, 10:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt330i
perhaps that's it. Although I'm only on my 3rd school and it was an intermediate run group so no novices. We should have been pretty close in skill level and my car only has a 1.3 liter engine.
What group they run in doesn't mean they are "good track drivers" or that they were "pushing their cars".

Most events just group people based on how many events they have attended. A person could attend 30 events and not be as good of a track driver as someone who's only been to a few. Some people are able to pick up good track techniques, some aren't. If everyone could do it, Michael Schumacher wouldn't be so special.

Plus, the fact that they think the stock E46 M3 tires are run flats is another problem....
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Old 09-20-2005, 11:52 PM   #7
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Grattan is my favorite track. I was so looking forward to going with Windy City this year, but something came up and I couldn't. Then I got my hopes up for the Motor City event there, but something came up that weekend as well. Hopefully I can make it to Mid-Ohio in October...
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Old 09-21-2005, 12:22 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jmsanders78
Grattan is my favorite track. I was so looking forward to going with Windy City this year, but something came up and I couldn't. Then I got my hopes up for the Motor City event there, but something came up that weekend as well. Hopefully I can make it to Mid-Ohio in October...
Do you run lots of events with Windy City? I did all three of their schools this year. Great club to run with.
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Old 09-21-2005, 07:45 AM   #9
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Do you run lots of events with Windy City? I did all three of their schools this year. Great club to run with.
I did all three last year, but this year I only did Gingerman. I did fully intend to do Grattan as well, but it just didn't work out. I like Windy City events a lot.
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Old 09-21-2005, 08:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsanders78
Grattan is my favorite track. I was so looking forward to going with Windy City this year, but something came up and I couldn't. Then I got my hopes up for the Motor City event there, but something came up that weekend as well. Hopefully I can make it to Mid-Ohio in October...

is windy city going to mid ohio in october?
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Old 09-21-2005, 09:07 AM   #11
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is windy city going to mid ohio in october?
No, they usually run Road America, Gingerman and Grattan.
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Old 09-21-2005, 09:31 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by jmsanders78
I did all three last year, but this year I only did Gingerman. I did fully intend to do Grattan as well, but it just didn't work out. I like Windy City events a lot.
Which run group were you in at Gingerman? What were you driving?
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Old 09-21-2005, 01:29 PM   #13
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The Buckeye Chapter is going to be at Mid-Ohio in late October. I don't know if there are any vacancies (I wouldn't be surprised if they're aren't), but if I get my act together I'll find out.

http://www.buckeyebmwcca.org/

I was in group 1. I've got a black E46 328i. It's a pretty low profile car.
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:30 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by matt330i
perhaps that's it. Although I'm only on my 3rd school and it was an intermediate run group so no novices. We should have been pretty close in skill level and my car only has a 1.3 liter engine.
1.3 liter engine? Is it a rotatory engine car? Remember that in competition rotatory engine displacement are always multipy by 2 because one wankle/rotor can be on the exhaust and intake mode at the same time. A normal piston engine can only have a piston on intake or exhaust mode at a time.
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by flacoy2k
1.3 liter engine? Is it a rotatory engine car? Remember that in competition rotatory engine displacement are always multipy by 2 because one wankle/rotor can be on the exhaust and intake mode at the same time. A normal piston engine can only have a piston on intake or exhaust mode at a time.
I agree, but 1.3L makes it sound so much better.

I was driving an RX-8 with the 1.3l Renesis (rotary ) engine. Still I was giving up almost 95hp to the ///M3s . Although, they are about 400 lbs heavier.


If anyone is interested, there is another school coming up at Gingerman in Michigan. Not as fun as Grattan, but still a challenging (yet safe) track.



Oct 10th: CGI Motorsports @ Gingerman

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cgimotorsports.com/

What: CGI Motorsports Driving School

When: Monday Oct 10th

Where: Gingerman Raceway

Cost: $175


Anybody up for this one?

I'm not ready to close the season yet. Join me at Gingerman for some fun. I'll be in their intermediate group and there are some spots left in that group.

Last edited by matt330i; 09-21-2005 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:48 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by matt330i
I agree, but 1.3L makes it sound so much better.

I was driving an RX-8 with the 1.3l Renesis engine. Still I was giving up almost 95hp to the ///M3s . Although, they are about 400 lbs heavier.


If anyone is interested, there is another school coming up at Gingerman in Michigan. Not as fun as Grattan, but still a challenging (yet safe) track.



Oct 10th: CGI Motorsports @ Gingerman

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cgimotorsports.com/

What: CGI Motorsports Driving School

When: Monday Oct 10th

Where: Gingerman Raceway

Cost: $175


Anybody up for this one?

I'm not ready to close the season yet. Join me at Gingerman for some fun. I'll be in their intermediate group and there are some spots left in that group.
I don't consider my self an expert but I have done a few autocross events and a few track events under NASA in south florida. I have come accross some very exoctic machinery here (Porsche turbos, Ferrari 360s, Lamborghini Murcielagos and Gallardos). I have passed all those cars on the track on my stock M3 with exception of track brake pads. My tires are the stock michelien pilot sport which by the way are not run flats. Having said all of that some drivers with a lot of experience driving Integra's and Mini's have left me in the dust.
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by flacoy2k
I don't consider my self an expert but I have done a few autocross events and a few track events under NASA in south florida. I have come accross some very exoctic machinery here (Porsche turbos, Ferrari 360s, Lamborghini Murcielagos and Gallardos). I have passed all those cars on the track on my stock M3 with exception of track brake pads. My tires are the stock michelien pilot sport which by the way are not run flats. Having said all of that some drivers with a lot of experience driving Integra's and Mini's have left me in the dust.
how do you like NASA?

I just joined but probably won't do any events until the spring. I'd be doing events here in the Midwest. Road America is one that I would probably do first.
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Old 09-21-2005, 03:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by jmsanders78
The Buckeye Chapter is going to be at Mid-Ohio in late October. I don't know if there are any vacancies (I wouldn't be surprised if they're aren't), but if I get my act together I'll find out.

http://www.buckeyebmwcca.org/

I was in group 1. I've got a black E46 328i. It's a pretty low profile car.

I know some guys in your run group. Do you know Dave Debord? He had a supercharged E36 M3 (hellrot with CF hood with a skull and crossbones).

I was in the intermediate group (4) in a black Mazda RX-8 (a high profile car, given it is the only one and it's a BMW school). At Gingerman, there was an older guy from Ann Arbor in my group with an E46 M3 with an SMG. He was passing everybody.

Last edited by matt330i; 09-21-2005 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 09-21-2005, 03:08 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by matt330i
I know some guys in your run group. Do you know Dave Debord? He had a supercharged E36 M3 (hellrot with CF hood with a skull and crossbones).

I was in the intermediate group (4) in a black Mazda RX-8 (a high profile car, given it is the only one and it's a BMW school).
Yeah, I know Dave. That car is for sale! (Maybe that's what you mean by "had") It's on the the Windy City page right now. I haven't ever talked to him, but his car is impossible to miss.

I remember seeing an RX-8 there, so I agree about it being high profile!

I'm looking into the CGI event. I haven't ever run with them before, but I'll check it out. I also passed the word along to my buddy who drives a Steel Gray M Coupe (also was at Ginerman).
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Old 09-21-2005, 03:33 PM   #20
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Yeah, I know Dave. That car is for sale! (Maybe that's what you mean by "had") It's on the the Windy City page right now. I haven't ever talked to him, but his car is impossible to miss.

I remember seeing an RX-8 there, so I agree about it being high profile!

I'm looking into the CGI event. I haven't ever run with them before, but I'll check it out. I also passed the word along to my buddy who drives a Steel Gray M Coupe (also was at Ginerman).
yeah, Dave bought an E46 M3. I know him from Euroteknik.com, a local Chicago forum/website for Euro car guys.

I just posted something on the Windy City board about the CGI school too. Let me know if you go and I'll look for you.
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