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Old 10-03-2005, 03:55 PM   #41
MarvelPhx
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Who, Hans?

I know that the last time the GTRs ran 24hours at the Ring, Dirk Müller set the fastest lap time on lap 90 with 8:47.602.
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Old 10-03-2005, 04:06 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelPhx
Who, Hans?

I know that the last time the GTRs ran 24hours at the Ring, Dirk Müller set the fastest lap time on lap 90 with 8:47.602.
Thats probably a different circuit. Hans's GTR is definitely quicker than that SC'ed CSL.
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Old 10-03-2005, 04:12 PM   #43
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Actually, if you think about it.... ESS M3 CSL has ~600hp and a SMG, the GTR is about 400HP and stick.... The CSL will beat it.
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Old 10-03-2005, 04:17 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelPhx
Actually, if you think about it.... ESS M3 CSL has ~600hp and a SMG, the GTR is about 400HP and stick.... The CSL will beat it.
Thats a totally different GTR from what Hans drives. I think your thinking of the "street" GTR.
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Old 10-03-2005, 04:38 PM   #45
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I'm not... this is the one, don't be so skeptical. Sure looks like the race GTR to me.
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Old 10-03-2005, 04:44 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelPhx
I'm not... this is the one, don't be so skeptical. Sure looks like the race GTR to me.
Yes that is the one im talking about. But for the times of 8:47 vs 7:35, those are different circuits they're running.
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Old 10-03-2005, 04:47 PM   #47
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Ok, explain why you think that a lap of Nurburgring is different for each.
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Old 10-03-2005, 04:49 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelPhx
Ok, explain why you think that a lap of Nurburgring is different for each.
Because there are a couple of different combinations, and thats a big time difference.
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Old 10-03-2005, 04:59 PM   #49
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So is the 200hp difference and the transmission between them...

Do you doubt the Carrera GT (612hp) driven by Horst von Saurma ran the street legal record in 7:32.44? They are less than 3 seconds shy of that.

I am prefectly astonished if they are hanging with a $400k+ super car regardless of what the GTR ran the Nordschleife in, GP circuit or not.
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Old 10-03-2005, 05:46 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvelPhx
So is the 200hp difference and the transmission between them...

Do you doubt the Carrera GT (612hp) driven by Horst von Saurma ran the street legal record in 7:32.44? They are less than 3 seconds shy of that.

I am prefectly astonished if they are hanging with a $400k+ super car regardless of what the GTR ran the Nordschleife in, GP circuit or not.
No, im talking about hans stuck driven GTR vs the "loaded" CSL times. I beleive the Carrera GT vs CSL times. My point is that the 8:47 GTR vs 7:35 CSL are different circuits.

http://20832.com/?rubrik=rekorde&lang=eng

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Old 10-03-2005, 05:52 PM   #51
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If the GTR ran the south curve as well, then the times are more correct and shouldn't be compared. Not much point in arguing it here. Still a crazy M3.

And just more info, that CSL M3 isnt even the fastest M3 they are working on, they have something even better coming (~700hp)... soon to be available here in the US.
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Old 10-05-2005, 04:06 PM   #52
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Just some comments.

MarvelPhx, you sure know a lot about the Loaded CSL. I don't know as many details, nor the status of the car as of today.

Instead, as I've written several times before, I've seen this monster in action and close up several times, and it simply blows the competition.

Stuck is a great driver, I've seen a lot of races with him when he was in his prime. But, he is probably not as fast as he used to be. Also, when I watched the Stuck movie, I was wondering what track he was driving, because the beginning and (as far as I remember) the end, is not the Nordschleife. On the other hand, it doesn't look like he is doing the full "sudschleife" either.

Horst von Saurma, isn't he the editor or something from a German automagazine? A pro could probably do it faster than that. Richard on the other hand is in his prime, and he can do magic with that car.

BBCs Top Gear / Jeremy Clarkson is doing the Nordschleife in 10 minutes in a Diesel Jaguar, but this is only measured on the "public" part. I wonder if there is one or more standards lap that everybody uses for timing.
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Old 10-05-2005, 04:18 PM   #53
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Saurma is the chief editor for Sport Auto, a German specialist magazine. The time was recorded on the North circuit (22.6km) and gave the Carrera GT the fastest time for a road-approved vehicle. I believe this does not include the south curve, so I don't know how it compares to other laptimes of the entire circuit (the track has so many segments and has changed a lot over the years anyway). All I know is how the Loaded CSL compares to the GT so far.

As for the CSL, I get a *lot* of information from ESS about the testing and building of the car. It isn't even done, they keep working on it to make it faster. And then this information trickles down to the production units we will be able to purchase from them. I just thought I would share it here at E46F.
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Old 10-05-2005, 04:51 PM   #54
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Old 10-06-2005, 12:44 AM   #55
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Wow that car is just pure sex.... Amazingly fast. I want one. Where do I sign.


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Old 10-08-2005, 08:25 AM   #56
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Guys - does anybody know - just how many M3 CSL's did BMW actually produce?
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:32 PM   #57
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you guys are talking about 2 absolutely different laps.

the time hans joachim stuck did in the M3GTR refers to a complete lap on the nordschleife (as the loades CSL did) PLUS the nürburing GP-course.
you can see it here:


the GP-course is in the bottom left corner. that´s aditional 3,6 to 5,1 kilometers (depends on which parts are driven) to the 20,8 kilometers of the nordschleife.

the M3GTR which is creating about 300 kilogramms of downforce an sould be a bit lighter than the CSL, should be faster than the loaded-CSL.

i hope i could help a little and sorry for my bad english

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Old 10-13-2005, 12:34 PM   #58
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Quote:
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Guys - does anybody know - just how many M3 CSL's did BMW actually produce?
1.400 and a few prototypes...
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Old 10-13-2005, 08:10 PM   #59
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highrev is right....two different tracks. when cars like the carrera gt post 7:32, altho it did eventually do 7:28, then this is just considered the Nordschlife. the motorsport GT-R ran the nordschilfe + gp course, so apples to oranges comparison.

if you want to get technical, the CGT ran a 7:28, the Donkervoort ran a 7:15, and a new Radical ran a 6:55 while being considered "street cars". altho, 7:35 for a "street car" (though this CSL is fully prepped) is very fast. this is not a tuner car or production car, but if we're considering such prepped cars "street cars," then i'd love to see what a koro 4.9L gt3 or a psi motorsport rts-4 would run not to undermine the loadedcsl achievement. it posts an amazing fast time, even if it is fully prepped, and its astounding that a "street" m3 can achieve such a time on a street chassis
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Old 10-13-2005, 08:48 PM   #60
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Damm, that guy sure knows how to drive, lol.
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