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Old 12-25-2005, 11:23 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerchop
Muscle Milk, tastes great, but it's garbage. Get some Optimum Nutrition 100% whey protein
I have to disagree with you on that... whey is great, but if you want the best, you don't go with the stuff at GNC (muscle milk is an exception, but I get it online much cheaper). Go to www.trueprotein.com and do a little research on protein and customize your own. I use 100% ion exchange whey and mix it with gatorade for workouts.

Also, if you buy cottage cheese, stick with 2%, it tastes way better than fat free (breakstone is my favorite).
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Old 12-28-2005, 12:51 AM   #22
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Muscle Milk is still garbage
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Old 12-28-2005, 02:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerchop
Muscle Milk is still garbage
x 10
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Old 12-28-2005, 11:58 AM   #24
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Muscle Milk has Micellar Alpha and Beta Casiens and Cassienates, Whey concentrates, rich in Alpha-Lactalbumin, Whey Isolates, Whey Peptides, Purified Bovine Colostrum Extract rich in Secretory IgA and IGF-1, Glutamine Peptides, L-Taurine, Lactofemin

ON has Whey Concentrate, Whey Isolates, and Whey Peptides.

Why do you think ON is better? Besides the fact that MM has fat in it, because they use MCTs which are used for building muscle.

Like I said, if you want good whey, go to trueprotein.com. Then again, I believe that your body needs different amino acid profiles than just using whey. That's why I mix my shakes with egg whites.

Anyway, to each their own. Ask 20 people how they should eat and what program they should do and you'll get 20 different answers.
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Old 12-28-2005, 03:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgrogan116
Muscle Milk has Micellar Alpha and Beta Casiens and Cassienates, Whey concentrates, rich in Alpha-Lactalbumin, Whey Isolates, Whey Peptides, Purified Bovine Colostrum Extract rich in Secretory IgA and IGF-1, Glutamine Peptides, L-Taurine, Lactofemin

ON has Whey Concentrate, Whey Isolates, and Whey Peptides.

Why do you think ON is better? Besides the fact that MM has fat in it, because they use MCTs which are used for building muscle.

Like I said, if you want good whey, go to trueprotein.com. Then again, I believe that your body needs different amino acid profiles than just using whey. That's why I mix my shakes with egg whites.

Anyway, to each their own. Ask 20 people how they should eat and what program they should do and you'll get 20 different answers.
I know what Muscle Milk contains. Regardless of how well they market their protein, MM's only plus is it's taste. Quite simply, it's high in fat and calories, and it's filled with a bunch of other junk you do not need. Not to mention it is overpriced. They only type of protein supplement you should be buying is Whey. Why? Because you need it post workout, and maybe for breakfast depending on what your first meal is and how long you have to prepare it. All your other protein should come for whole foods. So why is ON the best imo then? You can't beat it's quality in conjuction with it's price. A 10 lbs bag goes for 448 online, as opposed to MM's 2.48 lbs that goes for $24.
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Old 12-28-2005, 06:22 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerchop
I know what Muscle Milk contains. Regardless of how well they market their protein, MM's only plus is it's taste. Quite simply, it's high in fat and calories, and it's filled with a bunch of other junk you do not need. Not to mention it is overpriced. They only type of protein supplement you should be buying is Whey. Why? Because you need it post workout, and maybe for breakfast depending on what your first meal is and how long you have to prepare it. All your other protein should come for whole foods. So why is ON the best imo then? You can't beat it's quality in conjuction with it's price. A 10 lbs bag goes for 448 online, as opposed to MM's 2.48 lbs that goes for $24.
I used to agree with that, but after 2 and a half years of eating 6 meals a day, I'd get to the point that I didn't want to put another bite of anything in my mouth. I'd take a cheat day (or a week off) and it didn't help me (I've eaten like this for the better part of 4 years, 1 year on, 6 month break, and continued for the last 2.5 years). I honestly would get sick of eating. There's only so many ways to do eggs, chicken, lean beef, tuna, cottage cheese, protein, oatmeal, etc... I would go a week and eat nothing but ON or GNC brand protein (I've stuck with the ones that taste good and ON's chocolate is awesome). Anyway, if you've ever tried to go a day with nothing but shakes (I can't count the times I did that), you realize 100% whey doesn't go very far (and oatmeal, oat bran, or cream of wheat mixed in it wasn't making it much better).

So instead of adding Udo's perfect blend, milk, or something else, I've found that MM uses some good fats and a vitamin blend (with natural "amino gen" like enzymes and what not). I mix that with egg white (go to the website I listed way up and try it... you'll be amazed), some cream of wheat or crushed oats (health food store) and some ion exchange whey. Better than any MRP (without empty "good" carbs like maltodextrin) and relatively cheap (compared to 4 solid meals and two shakes). I still carry two protein mixers with premixed shakes almost everyday and have between 3 and 4 per day. I used to wake up in the middle of the night and do a pure protein, but that was during a bulk phase. MM even has a "naturals" (I think everyone's jumped on that), but I'm not a big fan of stevia.

On the note of sweetners, whoever said you can't get dextrose in a store meant you can't get it straight. Powdered gatorade uses dextrose. You can get powdered gatorade and mix it 2:1 with ion exchange whey (no flavor or vanilla, I usually use no flavor with orange gatorade) for the post work out shake and drink a higher ratio (about 8:1) while working out.

Seriously, check out www.trueprotein.com and get a refresher on which protein does what. Though most agree that ion exchange is the highest quality, it's crazy to read about the different ways it's processed.

You say you know what MM contains, but do you know the types of whey ON and MM use?

Quote:
Whey Protein Concentrate

True Proteinís whey protein concentrate is derived from
sweet dairy whey (milk). The process is through an ion-exchanged
filtering process in which fat, lactose, carbohydrates and
other materials are removed from the final product. Whey
Protein Concentrate can be sourced at 35% to 80% protein
per final product. We at True Protein only offer Whey Protein
Concentrate at its highest ratio, 77-80%.

Whey Protein Concentrate is considered the most economical
choice when buying a protein powder. Whey protein in general
is known for its extremely quick and fast digestion, it is great
for post workout shakes as well as anytime you need a quick
burst of amino acids. Though, an excellent source of BCAAís,
assimilation and digestion through the intestines is lessened
because of remaining products left in the filtering process.

Fat, lactose and the like, leave some users bloated and
gaseous.
Quote:
Whey Protein Isolate Ion-Exchange

True Proteinís Whey Protein Isolate Ion-Exchange is derived
from whey protein concentrate, but ultimately from sweet dairy
whey. Isolates, both Microfiltration and Ion-Exchange,
are protein powders that are the next steps to further process
whey protein concentrate. The Ion-Exchange process is a
procedure of separating the proteins through their specific
electrical charge. Chemical reagents allow the electric charge
of the protein to be controlled and then extracted. Ion-Exchange
Isolate is virtually fat free and lactose (sugar) free. The extraction
process leaves the final product almost all protein, around 96%
protein.

Whey Protein Isolate Ion-Exchange is a great whey protein for
users who experience bloating and other problems associated
with whey protein concentrate. As well, users who want a higher
protein percentage per product, an Isolate is a great choice.

Whey Protein Isolate Ion-Exchange possesses an extremely
clean taste. This product alone is opaque in nature (almost clear)
and does not have any distinct flavor. Great for the individual that
dislikes the taste of 'protein powders'.
Quote:
Egg White Protein

True Proteinís Egg White Protein is derived from chicken egg
whites. It is processed by removing the yolk and then converting
the egg white product in powdered form. Many individuals love
this product because it allows them to intake more eggs than
their body usually allows. Egg White protein gauges very high
on the protein effeciancy rating (P.E.R) a 3.9 out of 4.0.

Egg White Protein provides an excellent combination and
profile of amino acids. Egg White Protein also possesses a
high level of sulfur which is essential to various hormonal
pathways within the body. This increased production of anabolic
hormones leads to increased muscle mass.
If you made it this far, you probably like to read. Check out this article concerning glutamine: http://www.steroidology.com/forum/sh...28&postcount=1


Clinical research that shows glutamine is useless as a supplement (which I think you and Masko have wrote about it's benefits) and that BCAA's are most efficient in the role most people think glutamine plays (I think you both said to take those, so you covered the main point ).

So tell me, do you actually eat 6 meals a day and get the bulk of your protein from solid food? How long have you been doing it? What supplements?

I'll post some obscure supps that I take if you're interested.
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Old 12-28-2005, 07:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgrogan116
Muscle Milk has Micellar Alpha and Beta Casiens and Cassienates, Whey concentrates, rich in Alpha-Lactalbumin, Whey Isolates, Whey Peptides, Purified Bovine Colostrum Extract rich in Secretory IgA and IGF-1, Glutamine Peptides, L-Taurine, Lactofemin

ON has Whey Concentrate, Whey Isolates, and Whey Peptides.

Why do you think ON is better? Besides the fact that MM has fat in it, because they use MCTs which are used for building muscle.

Like I said, if you want good whey, go to trueprotein.com. Then again, I believe that your body needs different amino acid profiles than just using whey. That's why I mix my shakes with egg whites.

Anyway, to each their own. Ask 20 people how they should eat and what program they should do and you'll get 20 different answers.
Whao how did I miss all this.

Ok where to begin. Muscle milk does have Beta Casiens and other slow digesting components yes. But could you not buy a 2lb jug of cottage cheese for 2 bucks at your local supermarket and get the same effects in whole food form, instead of spending $35+ on a bottle of MM? Could you not eat eggs and meat to get the growth factors, glutamine, and taurine? Could you not add your own healthy muscle building fats to a whey shake and keep the unneccesary carbs and sugars out? Could you not consume various amino acid profiles through whole foods, which should be the majority of your diet anyways?

Ive been strict dieting for some 3+ years now and although I do get sick of eating the same things every day, I know that whole foods should be the basis of my diet. Consume nothing but shakes all day and you're seriously inhibiting your body's ability to process nutrients and absorb them. Its obvious that 100% whey doesnt go very far if your consuming nothing but that! Whey is a very poor option for a meal replacement. It should be consumed mornings and post workout only.

Getting back to Muscle Milk simply reading a bunch of long lettered words on the back of a label do not a good shake make, my friend. You mentioned it has Alpha-Lactalbumin, Whey Isolates, Whey Peptides, and Purified Bovine Colostrum Extract which are all sub-factions of protein. Pretty much all of which you can obtain from whole foods or a simple whey concentrate. In fact did you know that the protein content of Bovine Colostrum is 3-4 times greater than the content found in regular cows milk, and a majority of that protein is - guess what- whey protein (http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/n...ov_0082.shtml).

It is a well known fact the Bio-availability (your body's availability to use it) of whey is equal only to that of the protein found in eggs. Me and Bimmerchop have argued that ONs 100% whey protein is not only effective in giving you the needed amino acids that are required for muscle building, but its affordable, mixes good, tastes great, and generally contains no fat and carbs. Muscle Milk (although it has caseins, bovine extracts, and growth factors) has unneccesary fat and calories that a person who is on a strict diet cannot afford to consume.

Sure for the average joe who wants to put on some mass or who is bulking can down a MM shake (personally I think they taste awesome) but lgrogan116, it seems like you know your stuff and are experienced in diet and nutrition, a diet should be a well contructed and thought out plan. Muscle Milk is like a premixed combo shake that doesnt really attend to any specific diet, unless its an 'eat what you like' diet.

I could never even comprehend someone getting to their full potential drinking just shakes and not consuming whole foods.
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Old 12-28-2005, 08:13 PM   #28
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Exactly Masko

And to answer your question lgrogan116, I have checked out trueprotein.com. And yes, i do eat six meals a day, actually, I tend to eat more. I eat a total of 8 meals per day. I have been strict dieting for 2 years now. I was able to drop down from a fat 235 to 160. Then I clean bulked up from that to 206, and am currently cutting. Ultimately, I want to be at 210 with a bf% of 10 or below. I only use whey protein for breakfast, and in my post workout shake. The rest of my protein comes from whole foods. Do I get tired of eating the same things practically everyday, sometimes. Do I mind it, not at all. I love the fact that I can eat and eat, and not worry about getting fat now. I've come a long way since when i first started to build up my metabolism this fast. I only take natural supplements, which are whey, creatine mono, L-glut (which for every article that says it does nothing, like you posted there, are 10 more that say it's the sh!t), and have seen benefits from it, malto/dex, multivitamins, and flaxseed oil.
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Old 12-28-2005, 08:19 PM   #29
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Sorry to sway from the topic at hand but I asked this question before and did'nt get a reply so I'm rephrasing it here since you guys are here. Tia


Question:

Can someone tell me what ginseng is good for, I picked up a box of this stuff last week at a Chinese Jamaican restaurant. The box consists of tiny glass bottles of ginseng....The box reads" Red Panax Ginseng Extract".
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Old 12-28-2005, 08:24 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by bimmerrocks
Sorry to sway from the topic at hand but I asked this question before and did'nt get a reply so I'm rephrasing it here since you guys are here. Tia


Question:

Can someone tell me what ginseng is good for, I picked up a box of this stuff last week at a Chinese Jamaican restaurant. The box consists of tiny glass bottles of ginseng....The box reads" Red Panax Ginseng Extract".
http://www.consumerlab.com/results/ginseng.asp
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Old 12-28-2005, 08:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerchop
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:06 PM   #32
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Cool thread, i just came back from the supermarket and bought some vegetable and fruits, some chicken. Whats the best way to cook chicken?
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:45 PM   #33
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Cool thread, i just came back from the supermarket and bought some vegetable and fruits, some chicken. Whats the best way to cook chicken?
I cook mine on my foreman grill by first defrosting it, then adding lemon pepper, black pepper, and some powedered herbs. I add all the spices before grilling because I like the meat to cook with the flavor.

5-7 mins and its done.
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Old 12-29-2005, 04:31 PM   #34
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Get an iron skillet and grill it in a little bit of olive oil and salt and pepper... you can even do a little sesame seeds or almonds in it. Cut it up with a good spatula while it's cooking and it cooks fast. It's awesome. Also you can do chicken in a little Ceaser or Italian dressing (Newman's own lite).
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Old 12-30-2005, 12:59 PM   #35
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Don't drink milk. Your body was not designed to handle ingesting another animals milk. Digestive problems occur from it. Instead, get some soy milk. Vanilla soy milk is really good, and soy milk has almost all the "benefits" of regular milk such as calcium.

Also, more than 90% of your cholesterol is genetic and there is nothing you can really do about it. Leading a healthy lifestyle will lower the negative aspects of the high cholesterol.

Also, when eating carbs, try to eat most of them before 3 p.m.
This helps to keep you energized throughout the day, while ensuring that you don't overload on carbs.

Eggs are also one of the, if the best, source of natural protein. I believe the body coverts over 90% of the protein from this source.

Also, to maximize fat burn throughout the day, eat 6 small meals/snacks and when doing cardio use High Intensity Interval Training or HITT.

How HITT works:

You try to go 100% of your max in any of the cardiovascular excercises. For example it can be utilized in running, biking, stairmaster, hand-bike, etc. You start by going at around 50%-60% of your max for 15-20 seconds. Then you try to go 100% of your max for 45 seconds to one minute. Then you go 50%-60% for 15 seconds, and again go full force for 45 seconds to a minute. Continue this pattern for 6-8 minutes. You will probably start off by doing about 2-3 minutes worth. If done correctly, you will really, really feel the burn. I have used this method and it has worked excellent for me.

Eat Well, Eat Right, Work HARD, Stay Safe.
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Old 12-30-2005, 01:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurodriver
Don't drink milk. Your body was not designed to handle ingesting another animals milk. Digestive problems occur from it. Instead, get some soy milk. Vanilla soy milk is really good, and soy milk has almost all the "benefits" of regular milk such as calcium.
I would advise against soy milk. There has been many clinical studies that say consuming soy increases estrogen in the body. Estrogen is the opposite hormone of testosterone (the hormone that all of us should strive to increase). That is the reason many soy products are marketed towards women because not only is estrogen abundant in the female body, but the calcium content in soy milk prevents osteoporosis in thier bones. Although there is no solid conclusive proof, I simply wouldnt risk it.
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:05 PM   #37
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I have heard the same about it. However, I feel that it is not really threat. Soy protein is extremely good for the body. In fact, it is much better than whey protein, because whey protein is derived from milk.

If soy milk bothers people, there is also rice milk, almond milk, and many other alternatives.

Thank you for pointing that out however.
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:09 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masko
I would advise against soy milk. There has been many clinical studies that say consuming soy increases estrogen in the body. Estrogen is the opposite hormone of testosterone (the hormone that all of us should strive to increase). That is the reason many soy products are marketed towards women because not only is estrogen abundant in the female body, but the calcium content in soy milk prevents osteoporosis in thier bones. Although there is no solid conclusive proof, I simply wouldnt risk it.
That's why I go with rice milk, although I drink skim milk most of the time. Switching to soy does some terrible things to your ass for about the first week.
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Old 12-30-2005, 07:58 PM   #39
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Yes, soy milk is no good, there's so many negative things associated with this product that people are'nt aware of. Infact, I use to eat and drink soy religoiusly until I found out that soy in itself is bad. Consequently, I avoid all products that contain soy and now I have a harder time at the supermarket choosing grocery since soy is in so many things. These days I only consume goat's milk, I tried rice milk but I can't stand the flavor of it. Goat's milk is easier to digest that cows, also goat's are not treated with growth hormones so it's your best bet where animal milk is concerned.
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Old 12-31-2005, 03:08 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurodriver
I have heard the same about it. However, I feel that it is not really threat. Soy protein is extremely good for the body. In fact, it is much better than whey protein, because whey protein is derived from milk.

If soy milk bothers people, there is also rice milk, almond milk, and many other alternatives.

Thank you for pointing that out however.
I beg to differ. Whey imo is placed way above soy simply because of it being absorbed much quicker and it's BV. If you're gonna drink soy, you shouldn't cut out whey since you'll need it post workout without fail, and pre workout or breakfast as well. Besides the estrogen thing, soy is said to have a shitty biological value when compared to other proteins. A low biological value means most of it protein won't even get digested or used.
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