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Old 02-28-2006, 10:49 AM   #1
robin325ci
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My Xtec Ballast Is Busted Again, Umnitza, Apexcone Won't Take It Back

i bought my xtec 6000k hid's from umnitza in may 2004. within one month, a ballast failed. i sent it to matt and he replaced it with a new one. after a couple of months, one of the bulbs failed. once again i contacted matt and he told me to send the bulb to jim powell. so i emailed jim and he told me to send the bulb to taiwan. i then got my 6000k replacement bulb, but it was slightly bluer than my original bulbs!! i had no choice, i wasn't going to spend another $40 to fedex the thing back to taiwan!!!

now it's 2006one of the ballasts is malfunctioning again. the bulb would light up and then flicker before going out. i swappped bulbs and it did the sdame thing, so it's the ballast that is faulty. i emailed matt, he said that they no longer carry xtec and that i should contact jim instead.

it's been a couple of days and jim has not replied.

it says on his website:

"Important Notice to Consumers: During the year 2005 Apexcone became aware that Xtec Brand products were being copied and labeled as Xtec product, even though they were not Xtec systems and of inferior construction. This has been the case, in particular, on HID systems and components. Counterfeits have been coming from one particular wholesale and retail channel. Therefore any warranty claims for HID related products MUST, without exception, be handled through your selling vendor. AUTHORIZED product is traceable to the original seller. All warranty returns must be processed through your original reseller who will contact Apexcone with your S/N and sales information. Under no circumstances will Apexcone be able to work directly with consumers unless your Apexcone product was purchased directly from Apexcone and your sales information is on file with us."



here's a copy of matt's email:

We no longer have any communication with Xtec because we have over $3K in parts sitting there where they refused to warranty our goods. They may say it publicly, but privately, we've been left holding the bag on parts. We're fed up with their antics and you should be too.

I've never heard of a manufacturer that doesn't support their clients.

Go post whatever you wish, make sure you make note of the following items:

1) Xtec quality is bad, and has become progressively worse over time.
2) Xtec refuses to handle Umnitza's claims that they have - want pictures? I have lots all with serial numbers, all from customers that never got their stuff remedied because Xtec refused to replace them.
3) Xtec is under a government investigation for illegally selling HID, therefore, they are trying to avoid making any showing of having HID at all, thereby sending customers back to retailers that they don't support.

And please, by all means, post this as well:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...highlight=xtec

For the buyer, none of this should have an affect on their happiness with any particular retailer or product. All other existing sales channels of Xtec products are intact and XtecUSA will provide warranty support for our products previously sold by Umnitza. If you have a warranty return at Umnitza, they can return it for warranty if they wish to serve you. Or you can deal direct with XtecUSA. We can be reached at 760-798-1863 or email us at info@xtecusa.com. As XtecUSA has a lifetime warranty, it is not required that you produce a sales receipt for service. You can deal with us directly or through any authorized XtecUSA retailer.

Jim Powell
XtecUSA
Apexcone

I've posted the part in red so you understand how much of a joke Xtec/Apexcone is as a company. All promises all lies. Our Prolumen product - no problems with warranty.

***252;m•nitza inc.
---------------
Information
925•922•5777
www.umnitza.com
paypal@umnitza.com




what the hell do i do now? wtf happened to the "lifetime warranty"?! this is bs

i've already spent $80 sending the broken stuff across the globe (i'm from the philippines)

i don't know whose fault it is, i don't care about matt and jim's issues, i just want my ballast replaced

Last edited by robin325ci; 02-28-2006 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 02-28-2006, 11:26 AM   #2
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To learn more about what happened, check out what happened to me:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=266695
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Old 02-28-2006, 12:59 PM   #3
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Funny how when I tried to return my defective Xtec kit when a particular sponsor was still selling the kit, I was called a liar and told me that Xtec was really good and as reliable as a phillips based kit, so I get charged a $75 "restocking fee" for returning the kit. But now it seems that the table have turned because they no longer carry Xtec.

To me, if you bought something from a retailer that promised you a warrenty as their key selling point, they should still honor it. You did pay money for the "customer service"....didn't you? Go back to who you bought it from.....make them take care of it.
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Old 02-28-2006, 01:19 PM   #4
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When we first started selling Xtec, we were responsible for all the warranty support and followed up with all our customers. The product at that time was good quality. Since then, we see the drop in quality as do many of our others.

At this time, we have no contact with Xtec. That's it. That's all.

We have offered to fix the situation with the customer at our cost IF Xtec does not stand up for the situation.

We have ONLY sold real Xtec, but then again, that's what we were told by Xtec.

EDIT: When you buy a product from Sears, a washing machine, you get a 1 year warranty with it, and 30 days to return it. If you don't return it (we're Sears here), and you want support during the rest of the year, you contact the MFG. If they refuse to help you, that's not Sear's fault. Best you can do is to tell Sears not to carry that MFG's products.

Last edited by umnitza; 02-28-2006 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 02-28-2006, 01:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umnitza
EDIT: When you buy a product from Sears, a washing machine, you get a 1 year warranty with it, and 30 days to return it. If you don't return it (we're Sears here), and you want support during the rest of the year, you contact the MFG. If they refuse to help you, that's not Sear's fault. Best you can do is to tell Sears not to carry that MFG's products.
That's understandable. But from the consumers' perspective, they bought a kit from a retailer and was promised a warranty, now that the manufactuer is denaying the warrenty claim (valid reason?), the customer is essentially being screwed, they are stuck with a defective product and neither the retailer or manufactuer is taking responsibility.

But I guess in this case, you are offereing a "at cost" solution to the consumer, but he will still need to put out money to cover your cost.
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Old 02-28-2006, 01:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeKNiC3
That's understandable. But from the consumers' perspective, they bought a kit from a retailer and was promised a warranty, now that the manufactuer is denaying the warrenty claim (valid reason?), the customer is essentially being screwed, they are stuck with a defective product and neither the retailer or manufactuer is taking responsibility.

But I guess in this case, you are offereing a "at cost" solution to the consumer, but he will still need to put out money to cover your cost.
I almost fell out of my chair reading this. You? Making a reasonable comment? There is hope after all

Ok, all kidding aside, what you say is indeed valid.

However, note the time of the purchase - 1 year +.

Going at it with a timeline:
2003 we started with Xtec - as you were one of the first to get them then. They were good quality - we tested no fewer than 7 kits at the time.
2004 we began having difficulties with them, but continued to sell.
2004 Dec, customer purchased product, 2 warranty claims handled by Umnitza and the MFG to the customer's somewhat satisifaction (BTW - we paid out of pocket, the MFG didn't cover us - looked it up we save everything - to ship the product and cover cost of shipping).
2006 notified that the product doesn't work.

We are no longer responsible for this. It's like asking Sears to honor an MFG warranty past one year on something they don't even carry anymore. There is nothing we can do except offer a reasonable solution (albeit with a superior product) to the customer.
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:28 PM   #7
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Matt you prove a very valid point but you are talking about 1 year warranty and lifetime warranty....that is like comparing apples and oranges. I
ts like comparing Sears and Costco.

Sears does there 1 year warrenty and Costco does there 1 year, but the difference is Costco has satisfaction guidelines. You can go to any Costco after that one year and they will still help you out and get you some type of reimbursement of what you paid for or give you an exchange due to policy and customer service.

If the kit was bought with the thought it will be lifetime warranty, don't you think you should honor the warranty? B/c you stop carrying Xtec, that means say one day you stop carrying Prolumen, does that mean everyone is screwed also if say a mishap like this situation happens again?
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:31 PM   #8
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That is a really crappy situation. I feel for everyone involved in this, customer and retailer alike.
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330 HRE
Matt you prove a very valid point but you are talking about 1 year warranty and lifetime warranty....that is like comparing apples and oranges. I
ts like comparing Sears and Costco.

Sears does there 1 year warrenty and Costco does there 1 year, but the difference is Costco has satisfaction guidelines. You can go to any Costco after that one year and they will still help you out and get you some type of reimbursement of what you paid for or give you an exchange due to policy and customer service.

If the kit was bought with the thought it will be lifetime warranty, don't you think you should honor the warranty? B/c you stop carrying Xtec, that means say one day you stop carrying Prolumen, does that mean everyone is screwed also if say a mishap like this situation happens again?
First Paragraph.
1) Nope, same thing. Lifetime, Millenium, Galaxy warranty, call it what you like, the retailer isn't the one giving that warranty the MFG is. There are many differences I will not go into here, but if the MFG (let's assume Xtec) is claiming Lifetime Warranty, their retailers don't foot the bill, MFG does. Doesn't matter if it's 1 year or 10 years. Did you even read what was posted?

Second Paragraph.
1) Here's an excerpt from their site:
Quote:
Originally Posted by COSTCO
Please note, as of November 4th, 2002 , the return policy for all desktop and notebook computers are six months from the date of purchase. Six months after purchase, all computer services and technical support will be subject to the applicable remaining manufacturer’s warranty.
We are adhering to that type of policy.

Third Paragraph.
1) See above. Additionally, the difference between Prolumen and Xtec is about 30 different things. Not to mention the stand up nature with which Prolumen has ALWAYS conducted themselves. IF in the very very very very unlikely event you have a problem with a Prolumen product, it will be covered.
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:21 PM   #10
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Assuming this is a genuine XTec Product, we will honor the warranty as an XTec dealer if the retailer you purchased it through is not able to do so. Feel free to give us a call at 800-221-2262 to get this worked out.
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:28 PM   #11
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Per our stated policy and that of the manufacturer, you need to show a valid sales invoice from the retailer showing the product purchased and the date. This should not be too diffficult.

Also, due to the nature of our business as an exporter and wholesaler, we are not able to handle the management of deposits and core charges to end customers. This is the job of the retailer.

What we have here is a situation with a retailer not wishing to provide documentation of the sale or the handling of the logistics of the suport to their customer.

Xtec's warrantee is in full force. There is nothing different here than if you wanted the warrantee on your BMW honored. You go to the retailer who is paid through the profit they make from you to deal with your claim.

If Umnitza does not want to deal with you by providing this support, then get the receipt and go to another supporting retailer who will not mind helping you. Autowerks and NA Motorwerks come to mind as retailers happy to assist customers with warrantee support even if they were not the original retailer.
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330 HRE
Matt you prove a very valid point but you are talking about 1 year warranty and lifetime warranty....that is like comparing apples and oranges. I
ts like comparing Sears and Costco.

Sears does there 1 year warrenty and Costco does there 1 year, but the difference is Costco has satisfaction guidelines. You can go to any Costco after that one year and they will still help you out and get you some type of reimbursement of what you paid for or give you an exchange due to policy and customer service.

If the kit was bought with the thought it will be lifetime warranty, don't you think you should honor the warranty? B/c you stop carrying Xtec, that means say one day you stop carrying Prolumen, does that mean everyone is screwed also if say a mishap like this situation happens again?
The thing to consider with warranties is who is providing the warranty. In this case, the warranty is provided by the manufacturer and the retailer is simply stating that there is a warranty on the product. In the case that something goes wrong, you would go to the retailer if they could help or directly to Xtec to get the problem resolved. In either case, the end result would be a redress by the manufacturer even if it went through the retailer. Had Umnitza said, we provide an unconditional guarantee on any products we sell, then you would expect that Umnitza covers it out of pocket. But, since they aren't the ones that stamped that guarantee on the box, you can't expect them to just pay out, you can only expect them to be on the manufacturer's ass to get the problem fixed. Remember, when something goes wrong, it reflects poorly on the MFG as well as the retailer. I have no doubt that Umnitza will do whatever they can to fix the problem, because it is a black eye for them as much as anyone. However, if it doesn't benefit them to pay out, and they are better off possibly taking a small hit in reputation, it doesn't make sense to pay out of pocket.
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsp98m3
Per our stated policy and that of the manufacturer, you need to show a valid sales invoice from the retailer showing the product purchased and the date. This should not be too diffficult.

Also, due to the nature of our business as an exporter and wholesaler, we are not able to handle the management of deposits and core charges to end customers. This is the job of the retailer.

What we have here is a situation with a retailer not wishing to provide documentation of the sale or the handling of the logistics of the suport to their customer.

Xtec's warrantee is in full force. There is nothing different here than if you wanted the warrantee on your BMW honored. You go to the retailer who is paid through the profit they make from you to deal with your claim.

If Umnitza does not want to deal with you by providing this support, then get the receipt and go to another supporting retailer who will not mind helping you. Autowerks and NA Motorwerks come to mind as retailers happy to assist customers with warrantee support even if they were not the original retailer.
That doesn't even make sense to me. Why would a retailer be completely responsible for honoring your warranty? Umnitza, or any other retailer for that matter, has every reason to get the bad product issues resolved. I have no doubt that they have tried to contact the MFG about the problems, so why haven't they been resolved?

My watch has a MFG warranty on it. My jewler has nothing to do with it, and they can't just replace it with another one, that is ludicrous. Why is this any different?
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:04 PM   #14
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The retailer is responsible for administering your warranty. Xtec is responsible for the warranty.

You need three things:

1. A valid receipt. There are counterfeits in the marketplace apparently. The factory asks for a valid receipt from the retailer. This certainly seems normal to me.

2. The retailer has to handle the deposit or core charge for the replacement parts they request to be sent out in advance. 90% of warranty claimants want an advance replacement. If one is sent, it is first "bought" by the retailer who then manages the return of the old parts (at or expense) and when received in proper condition, the core charge is reversed to the retailer who then refunds your deposit.

3. Communication. We cannot perform the vital function of maintaining communication with you regarding the return and replacement. This is the retailers job.

As I said, we support all past and present retailers. If yours doesn't want to help you, get your receipts from them and go to another. I know that Autowerks or NA Motorwerks would be happy to help manage your warranty claim even though THEY never made a nickel off of your sale. They want to help you with your service issue.
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umnitza
First Paragraph.
1) Nope, same thing. Lifetime, Millenium, Galaxy warranty, call it what you like, the retailer isn't the one giving that warranty the MFG is. There are many differences I will not go into here, but if the MFG (let's assume Xtec) is claiming Lifetime Warranty, their retailers don't foot the bill, MFG does. Doesn't matter if it's 1 year or 10 years. Did you even read what was posted?

Second Paragraph.
1) Here's an excerpt from their site:


We are adhering to that type of policy.

Third Paragraph.
1) See above. Additionally, the difference between Prolumen and Xtec is about 30 different things. Not to mention the stand up nature with which Prolumen has ALWAYS conducted themselves. IF in the very very very very unlikely event you have a problem with a Prolumen product, it will be covered.
Just FYI: If you talk to Costco and are honest with them they will honor an exchange or refund after the 6 months. I had my 37" Sharp LCD monitor refunded to me after 6 months, after it decided to die on me. Most of the time they bend the rules and let you slide when you are sincere.
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:28 PM   #16
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We have been carrying XTec HIDs and other XTec products for some time now. As a retailer we have been very impressed with their quality. The HIDs in particular are superior to other brands we had carried in the past and superior to Prolumen in our tests.

We RARELY get warranty claims on our XTec HIDs. And, when that does occur, we have had absolutely no problems in handling replacements throught XTecUSA.

AutoWerks also deals with many other products that are under a manufacturers warranty and I would say that XTec's warranty track record is among the best of all the companies we deal with.

Let's try to be honest here - there are a lot of games being played in this situation. XTec is still in business and is actively honoring warranties. If your retailer can't help you, then seek help from another XTec retailer - AutoWerks or whoever. I don't buy any of the excuses being offered as to why this couldn't have been taken care of before now.
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:42 PM   #17
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I knew this was gonna be a great thread.
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:51 PM   #18
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Just like almost all other "my crap broke..enter vendor war/basing" threads that have been out there, some things certainly don't seem to add up. I am having serious trouble understanding why a problem exists if it is so easy to fix. Why would we be having this discussion if all Umnitza had to do was pick up the phone and talk to Jim? It seems to me that everyone could have gotten those 15 ballasts that are sitting at Umnitza all taken care of in the time that it has taken to bash one another on this thread. I know for a fact that Umnitza doesn't just sit around doing nothing all day. They respond to customer concerns almost always within an hour of an email being sent. Myself and a lot of other people on this forum can vouch for their customer support history. They are not the kind of people that would let something like this just go by the wayside. So, someone please explain to me a motive that Umnitza would have for creating a lot of p!ssed off customers, and then wasting time out of the day to defend themselves on this forum.
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
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right....
posting in an open forum and openly admiting you sell a product the nhtsa deemed ilegal does not strike me as the smart thing to do, what happened to the xtec and apexcone pages? did you get shut down, skipping town maybe?
Are you talking about Jim skipping town? He is in another country doing R&D work and checking on his products.

www.apexcone.com still works
www.xtecusa.com still works

what are you getting at?
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:02 PM   #20
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Please knock off the vendor bashing and personal attacks. The original person simply asked for advice on what to do in his situation, not for all sort of back stories, BS and name calling.

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