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Old 04-16-2010, 04:18 PM   #4241
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Well, the meet is located in a strip mall, but a rather larger one. When it comes to parking, there were plenty of spaces available. Even on the busiest night ive seen go on. You just had a but more of a walk to your store.

I would have to agree that it is a boost for the businesses there since most of the people there end up getting something whether or not it just be a drink or a simple meal, but its still something.

And for the most part people tend to behave there. You get the occasional ass that tries to drive to fast for the parking lot but besides that not to much. I dont know, i mean i had no problem with leaving and in fact had more of a problem with the security guard working there since he just wants and tells everyone to leave

Thanks for the answers guys
Got it...with private property that has public access, you have problems with trespassing and local county codes/muni codes regarding loitering. The combo of the two probably gives the cops a reason to go there to stem the "public nuisance" created. As you mention above, there is always a jackass or two that is bad news, which draws negative attention to the whole group. Also, since the security guard is acting as an agent of the property owner, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one initiating the police response.
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Old 04-16-2010, 05:03 PM   #4242
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Got it...with private property that has public access, you have problems with trespassing and local county codes/muni codes regarding loitering. The combo of the two probably gives the cops a reason to go there to stem the "public nuisance" created. As you mention above, there is always a jackass or two that is bad news, which draws negative attention to the whole group. Also, since the security guard is acting as an agent of the property owner, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one initiating the police response.
yea, the security guard been know to call. Well, one week he called, the cops showed up, and then basically were mad at the security guard which most of the people thought was really funny. But last week it seemed like the cops showed up on their own.

Oh well, thanks for your input in the whole thing
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Old 04-17-2010, 12:10 AM   #4243
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Frobie, thanks for answering my questions. I ate at Harris Ranch once a few years ago but don't remember the food that well. We often stop there to use the bathroom and buy a snack in the store. Now that you mentioned Officer R., I do remember seeing a Subway at the gas station next door. I was planning to sign up for the BMW June HPDE at Buttonwillow, but it overlaps a family vacation, so hopefully I will do the one in May at the California Speedway in Fontana.

If Officer R. ever pulls me over in Coalinga for speeding on I-5, I don't think mentioning your name will help me much.

Me: "Uhh.. Officer R., I think I know one of your patrolmates who used to work in Coalinga."
RW: "Oh, who's that?"
Me: "Officer Frobie"
RW: "Who? We don't have an officer Frobie."
Me: "Ummm.. he transfered to Fresno and drives a BMW 330 when he's off-duty"
RW: "Oh, yes, I know him very well. How do you know him?"
Me: "Well I never actually met him, he answered a bunch of questions for me and some other BMW owners online. He said you like Subway sandwiches."
RW: "So you're asking me to give you a break because you met my friend online and don't even know his real name, just what kind of car he drives? Are you trying to tell me how to do my job? And are you suggesting I need to lose weight like that doofy looking Jared from the TV commercials?"
Me: "No sir! Just mentioning that I kind of know Frobie and we're both BMW 3-series fans. And I love Subway, especially the $5 foot-longs."
RW: "Well since you drive a BMW and save money at lunch, I'm sure you won't have any trouble paying your ticket and helping with the State budget crisis!"

Though I guess if your friend is also an E46 fanatic, I might have better luck.

Last edited by LivesNearCostco; 04-17-2010 at 12:14 AM. Reason: added fictional dialogue including Jared
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Old 04-17-2010, 12:48 AM   #4244
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Question for OHCM, Frobie, and any other LEOs (any state) on this thread. What is your opinion about how states handle CCW (concealed carry weapon) permits? Two or three states don't require a permit to carry a concealed handgun. Two states and DC don't allow any civilians to carry. Perhaps 20 or 30 states are "shall issue" where anyone who passes the background check and pays a fee can get a CCW (most states require a training course or proficiency test).

But California (and I think NY and MA) lets each city chief or county sheriff decide whether or not to issue, in most larger cities and coastal counties, you can't get a permit unless you are a politician, retired LEO, or buddies with the police chief/sheriff. So I could live in a rural county and get a CCW (good statewide), then move to a high-crime big city by the coast and have my permit revoked. Strangely enough California lets you carry and unloaded handgun openly (not concealed) as long as you stay away from schools and follow other rules, but I don't think this is allowed in vehicles unless you have a CCW or perhaps in a camper that is parked at a campsite.

I know the cops don't write the law, just enforce it, but do you think states should....
  • Issue CCWs to anyone with a clean record, no history of mental illness, and compleition of a state-approved course... or not issue CCWs to any civilians because a 1-day course is not enough for Average Joe/Jane to learn safe handling and legal use of firearms?
  • Issue or deny CCWs consistently across the whole state to keep things consistent statewide, or let each jurisdiction decide who can get a CCW based on local conditions and/or politics?
  • Would you like to see your state ban civilian handgun ownership altogether? A recent Supreme Court ruling makes this unlikely in the US, but Canada and the UK have done it. Or would you like to see lots of law abiding citizens legally carrying guns because it reduces crime?
There was a rural town (maybe in Georgia?) that required every citizen to own (not carry) a gun, but it was passed for symbolic reasons--they didn't actually enforce it. They had a really low crime rate, but they had a low crime rate before passing the law.

And correct me if I got the CCW laws wrong for your state.
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:11 AM   #4245
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Frobie, thanks for answering my questions. I ate at Harris Ranch once a few years ago but don't remember the food that well. We often stop there to use the bathroom and buy a snack in the store. Now that you mentioned Officer R., I do remember seeing a Subway at the gas station next door. I was planning to sign up for the BMW June HPDE at Buttonwillow, but it overlaps a family vacation, so hopefully I will do the one in May at the California Speedway in Fontana.

If Officer R. ever pulls me over in Coalinga for speeding on I-5, I don't think mentioning your name will help me much.

Me: "Uhh.. Officer R., I think I know one of your patrolmates who used to work in Coalinga."
RW: "Oh, who's that?"
Me: "Officer Frobie"
RW: "Who? We don't have an officer Frobie."
Me: "Ummm.. he transfered to Fresno and drives a BMW 330 when he's off-duty"
RW: "Oh, yes, I know him very well. How do you know him?"
Me: "Well I never actually met him, he answered a bunch of questions for me and some other BMW owners online. He said you like Subway sandwiches."
RW: "So you're asking me to give you a break because you met my friend online and don't even know his real name, just what kind of car he drives? Are you trying to tell me how to do my job? And are you suggesting I need to lose weight like that doofy looking Jared from the TV commercials?"
Me: "No sir! Just mentioning that I kind of know Frobie and we're both BMW 3-series fans. And I love Subway, especially the $5 foot-longs."
RW: "Well since you drive a BMW and save money at lunch, I'm sure you won't have any trouble paying your ticket and helping with the State budget crisis!"

Though I guess if your friend is also an E46 fanatic, I might have better luck.
I could just imagine the look on Richwine's face if you mention "Officer Frobie"!
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:13 PM   #4246
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Originally Posted by LivesNearCostco View Post
Question for OHCM, Frobie, and any other LEOs (any state) on this thread. What is your opinion about how states handle CCW (concealed carry weapon) permits? Two or three states don't require a permit to carry a concealed handgun. Two states and DC don't allow any civilians to carry. Perhaps 20 or 30 states are "shall issue" where anyone who passes the background check and pays a fee can get a CCW (most states require a training course or proficiency test).

But California (and I think NY and MA) lets each city chief or county sheriff decide whether or not to issue, in most larger cities and coastal counties, you can't get a permit unless you are a politician, retired LEO, or buddies with the police chief/sheriff. So I could live in a rural county and get a CCW (good statewide), then move to a high-crime big city by the coast and have my permit revoked. Strangely enough California lets you carry and unloaded handgun openly (not concealed) as long as you stay away from schools and follow other rules, but I don't think this is allowed in vehicles unless you have a CCW or perhaps in a camper that is parked at a campsite.

I know the cops don't write the law, just enforce it, but do you think states should....
  • Issue CCWs to anyone with a clean record, no history of mental illness, and compleition of a state-approved course... or not issue CCWs to any civilians because a 1-day course is not enough for Average Joe/Jane to learn safe handling and legal use of firearms?
  • Issue or deny CCWs consistently across the whole state to keep things consistent statewide, or let each jurisdiction decide who can get a CCW based on local conditions and/or politics?
  • Would you like to see your state ban civilian handgun ownership altogether? A recent Supreme Court ruling makes this unlikely in the US, but Canada and the UK have done it. Or would you like to see lots of law abiding citizens legally carrying guns because it reduces crime?
There was a rural town (maybe in Georgia?) that required every citizen to own (not carry) a gun, but it was passed for symbolic reasons--they didn't actually enforce it. They had a really low crime rate, but they had a low crime rate before passing the law.

And correct me if I got the CCW laws wrong for your state.
Looks like your interpretation of the CCW laws in CA is accurate. In my opinion, I would rather no one have concealed weapons in public. As it is, trained police officers with years of experience sometimes misjudge a situation and shoot when it isn't appropriate. Imagine how often we would be dealing with Joe Q. Citizen accidentally shooting someone because he panicked, or misinterpreted a situation, or lost his temper, or was drunk, etc, etc. I also don't want to have to worry, more than usual, about everyone I stop or contact being armed (legally) for many of the reasons above. Also, keep in mind that if the good citizen pulls their gun on a bad guy, the citizen has now upped the ante and the bad guy might increase his force beyond what he would have done previously, or what if bad guy takes good guys gun because good guy hesitated for a second since they weren't mentally prepared to take another human's life?

Anyhow, as you can see, I'm pretty adamant in my opinion about regular citizens (even if they pass a background check and get basic training) being armed.

Should handguns be banned altogether? I don't think so. They are both appropriate for protection within one's home, and make for fun sport.
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:11 PM   #4247
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OHCM: Thanks for sharing your opinion on this. I used to have CCWs for 4 states: MA (limited use), New Hampshire, Florida, Washington. Maybe Oregon too--don't remember. Couldn't get one in California because I couldn't prove I was a retired LEO, jewelry salesman, or celebrity being stalked by a maniac. All my CCWs have long expired. Also had a California guard card and gun card, which let me carry a loaded gun openly but only while working as a licensed security guard. It's also expired.

I might apply for a non-resident CCW from Florida or UT, as reciprocity would then let me carry a gun in many other states, though not in California, IL, NY, DC, WI, etc.

My follow-up question to you and other LEOs is what would you do if you pull someone over for speeding and discover he has a concealed gun with a valid CCW from another state but not from your state? Do you take him to jail, confiscate the firearm(s) and issue a ticket, or let it slide? For Frobie and OHCM, if you arrest him/her in California, do you charge him with a misdemeanor or felony, or is that strictly up to the DA? Assume the driver is cooperative, has current license and registration, and has no criminal record beyond a few minor traffic citations (like no front license plate).

Last edited by LivesNearCostco; 04-19-2010 at 05:11 PM. Reason: changing "concealed" to "concealed gun"
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Old 04-19-2010, 05:42 PM   #4248
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OHCM: Thanks for sharing your opinion on this. I used to have CCWs for 4 states: MA (limited use), New Hampshire, Florida, Washington. Maybe Oregon too--don't remember. Couldn't get one in California because I couldn't prove I was a retired LEO, jewelry salesman, or celebrity being stalked by a maniac. All my CCWs have long expired. Also had a California guard card and gun card, which let me carry a loaded gun openly but only while working as a licensed security guard. It's also expired.

I might apply for a non-resident CCW from Florida or UT, as reciprocity would then let me carry a gun in many other states, though not in California, IL, NY, DC, WI, etc.

My follow-up question to you and other LEOs is what would you do if you pull someone over for speeding and discover he has a concealed gun with a valid CCW from another state but not from your state? Do you take him to jail, confiscate the firearm(s) and issue a ticket, or let it slide? For Frobie and OHCM, if you arrest him/her in California, do you charge him with a misdemeanor or felony, or is that strictly up to the DA? Assume the driver is cooperative, has current license and registration, and has no criminal record beyond a few minor traffic citations (like no front license plate).
As you know, if it is from another state, it is not valid here. There isn't much of a gray area there, and I'd be compelled to take that person to jail. I would charge them with carrying a loaded gun in a public place (12031PC), and carrying a concealed weapon in a vehicle(12025PC). Both are wobblers, they would be booked for the felonies, with the DA deciding whether they want to charge it as a felony or misdemeanor.
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Old 04-19-2010, 08:05 PM   #4249
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OHCM, thanks again for your input on this. One part that sucks--from my perspective as a gun owner--is that if I were to get a CCW from another state and then be convicted in California of a gun-related felony like carrying without a California CCW, I would most likely lose any CCWs I had in other states and probably be forever barred from getting a gun permit anywhere, even though my crime would not have been a crime in those other states.

Some gun owners have a saying to justify carrying with a CCW (especially after the LA riots): "It's better to be tried by tweleve than carried by six." All well and good if you think someone is going to threaten you while you're driving somewhere, but if you're convicted on a felony gun possession charge, I believe you lose the right to own any gun (even in your own home) for several years or forever, correct?

Here's something I find amusing. 2nd amendment activists rallied with guns in Virginia (see story) because they couldn't do so in DC, and the NRA has its headquarters in VA. But they are the one state that bans radar detectors. VA says you can get a permit to carry a loaded gun in your car but not a radar detector. California is the other way around--radar detectors are allowed but (for nearly all normal people) guns are not.

OK, after this I promise to stop asking gun-in-the-car questions. Less risky to tint my windows.

Last edited by LivesNearCostco; 04-19-2010 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:52 AM   #4250
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Not sure if this topic has been touched on, tattoos. I was wondering how tattoos are viewed when getting hired? From my understanding they are allowed but must not be visible (covered up). Are sprecific tattoos frowned upon or more likely to get you thrown out? Or can it be justified by a personal or religious belief? More specifically in Southern California how are religious tattoos such as a virgin mary, a cross, or angels viewed? I know here in Califronia a lot of gang members happen to coincidentally get those type of tattoos.

Thanks guys.
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:35 AM   #4251
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Not sure if this topic has been touched on, tattoos. I was wondering how tattoos are viewed when getting hired? From my understanding they are allowed but must not be visible (covered up). Are sprecific tattoos frowned upon or more likely to get you thrown out? Or can it be justified by a personal or religious belief? More specifically in Southern California how are religious tattoos such as a virgin mary, a cross, or angels viewed? I know here in Califronia a lot of gang members happen to coincidentally get those type of tattoos.

Thanks guys.
There are some tattoos that are obviously outwardly offensive that would be problematic. Religious symbols (short of a pentagram) shouldn't be a problem. For us (LA County Sheriffs Dept) you do need to cover any visible tattoos.
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:16 PM   #4252
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Frobie: I did the OC to Bay Area drive twice since asking you about Harris Ranch. Once in the E46 on Hwy 101 and one more in the minivan on I-5. Fortunately no encounters with CHP Officer Richwine or any other LEOs, which is good for my insurance premiums because I just finished traffic school and can't go again until at least June 2011.

A minor California VC question about lighting. My car came with clear corners and white bulbs in them. What color turn signals are allowed? Looking at the California Vehicle code on lighting section 24953, it seems to say front turn signals can be white or amber while rear turn signals can be amber or red. Side-mounted turn signals must be amber if mounted towards the front half of the car.

So if my rear turn signals are white/clear, could that be a moving violation? What if the lenses are clear but the bulbs/LEDs inside are amber?
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:34 PM   #4253
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Hey guys kind of a random question. My mom is a city attorney in a city in the Denver area, I work in the same building as her and thus have the same commute as her. She had told me that I couldn't be ticketed to a city court due to the possible conflict of interest involved, and that if they were to cite me they would have to write the ticket to a county court. I work about 500 feet from the city court, however the county court I would have to go to would be 25 miles away. Now I know police officers get paid for their time to go to court, but what do you think the chances are of a police officer writing me a ticket, and if so what are the chances they would actually show up to court? I've only been pulled over once, that was because someone called me in for flashing my highbeams at them for going 5 under in the left lane. The officer didn't ticket me of course, just warned me about doing stuff like that because it infuriates most people.
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:16 AM   #4254
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just going to bump this...


Officer Frobie.. did you happen to pull any bmws over the day of Bimmerfest? May 22nd.
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:33 AM   #4255
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Just a quick question.

I was dropping off a buddy who was helping me install brakes earlier tonight. I took a right pretty quickly because I misjudged how little braking power I had with un-bedded brakes, and as a result, got the tail out a little bit exiting the turn. Honest mistake. Now, I think there was a LEO sitting at or approaching the intersection I had just gone through, and he went through the intersection even though it was red on his side. I didn't realize this until my friend pointed out there was a cop closing quickly behind me, but we were already at his condo building, and I turned right where I normally would.

I didn't purposely avoid him (luckily I did), but the LEO stopped at the entrance of the building as if he were waiting for me. Could he have easily flipped on his lights and pulled me over even though I was on private property?
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:54 AM   #4256
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Hey guys, I could really use your help.

Yesterday evening about 8:00, I was at a stop light and accelerated quickly into a 30 mph zone (which turned into a 35 mph zone about 100 yards later) after making a left hand turn. I got up to about 50 mph (+/- 2 mph), began to slow down to make another turn, and saw a squad car with lights and siren come screaming towards me out of an adjacent parking lot.

I immediately pulled over after making my turn (at which point I was half a block away from my house) and the officer came up. He said while he did not get an exact speed, he estimated I was doing "at least 60 mph." He went back to his car, did some research in a few reference books, and came back with my ticket at which point a 2nd officer showed up as back up.

He said that he was very tempted to arrest me for "exhibition of speed" which is a misdimeanor in California but was not going to do so (IIRC, his reasoning was that he did not have enough evidence or did not want to have to take me to jail, or both.) He wrote me up for 46-55 in a 30 mph zone and indicated an approximate speed of 55+ as well as the warning for the exhibition of speed. When asked if this ticket was eligible for traffic school, he said "yes."

Other notes:
-Both officers were University of California Police Department, but I was not on campus and about a mile away from campus.
-The officer mentioned several times that he thought I was showing off because I drove an M3 and seemed to have a chip on his shoulder about that.
-I'm going to double check, but this particular officer has a reputation for being particularly harsh (he arrested a friend on an arguably bogus charge of "evading arrest" while riding a skateboard)


Here are my questions:
-Is this ticket worth fighting considering he was only able to "estimate" my speed?
-If I take it to court, do I lose my ability to go to traffic school should I lose?
-Even though he did not charge me with the "exhibition of speed" at the time of the incident, can I be charged with it later if I take it to court?
-What are the jurisdictional issues for campus police in surrounding neighborhoods?

Thanks in advance for your help, I really appreciate what you do and the effort it takes to respond to so many questions.

-Scott


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Old 06-02-2010, 11:13 AM   #4257
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nitro3421: several things could happen. First the Officer could not show up to court, however in most departments like nine it is required that you do. Second, you already admitted that you were going 50 mph +/- so you hvae already admitted your guilt. Even if you are 1 mph over the speedlimit you are still guilty, and this is how any judge is going to see it. I would just go to traffic school. Yes it cost more, but you will not have that point on your license. By him warning you on the citation about the CVC 23109(c), he has given good reason for the speeding citation, he just gave you a chance. As far as your question about juristriction. Read California Penal Code 830.2.

830.2. The following persons are peace officers whose authority
extends to any place in the state:
(a) Any member of the Department of the California Highway Patrol
including those members designated under subdivision (a) of Section
2250.1 of the Vehicle Code, provided that the primary duty of the
peace officer is the enforcement of any law relating to the use or
operation of vehicles upon the highways, or laws pertaining to the
provision of police services for the protection of state officers,
state properties, and the occupants of state properties, or both, as
set forth in the Vehicle Code and Government Code.
(b) A member of the University of California Police Department
appointed pursuant to Section 92600 of the Education Code, provided
that the primary duty of the peace officer shall be the enforcement
of the law within the area specified in Section 92600 of the
Education Code

He is a Peace Officer anywhere in California. He has the same powers as the local Police, Sheriff, and CHP. As long as primary function is to protect the campus he is okay. A mile away from the school is not that far in the first place.

Hope all this helps, and good luck.
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:56 PM   #4258
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Here are my questions:
-Is this ticket worth fighting considering he was only able to "estimate" my speed?
-If I take it to court, do I lose my ability to go to traffic school should I lose?
-Even though he did not charge me with the "exhibition of speed" at the time of the incident, can I be charged with it later if I take it to court?
-What are the jurisdictional issues for campus police in surrounding neighborhoods?
This free site can answer most of your questions: Help I Got a Ticket
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:27 PM   #4259
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lol, UC campus police are really lame; they love pulling people over just to give them warnings (but usually not tickets) and asserting their authority. I remember years back they pulled over our entire high school mountain bike team at like 10:30am on a sunday morning for "obstructing traffic" and giving us all a good 20 minute long lecture.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:25 PM   #4260
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Originally Posted by LivesNearCostco View Post
Frobie: I did the OC to Bay Area drive twice since asking you about Harris Ranch. Once in the E46 on Hwy 101 and one more in the minivan on I-5. Fortunately no encounters with CHP Officer Richwine or any other LEOs, which is good for my insurance premiums because I just finished traffic school and can't go again until at least June 2011.

A minor California VC question about lighting. My car came with clear corners and white bulbs in them. What color turn signals are allowed? Looking at the California Vehicle code on lighting section 24953, it seems to say front turn signals can be white or amber while rear turn signals can be amber or red. Side-mounted turn signals must be amber if mounted towards the front half of the car.

So if my rear turn signals are white/clear, could that be a moving violation? What if the lenses are clear but the bulbs/LEDs inside are amber?
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you... I've been having computer issues.....

As long as the lights illuminate the proper color, you're legal. But keep in mind that there are required colors for reflectors, too.
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Go ahead, ask me a question... Check out the CopTalk thread in the California forum

Thank you Sam
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