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Old 10-30-2006, 02:22 AM   #901
thesethoughtsru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presns323i View Post
so i got a ticket today....

i have a few questions:

1. how long do i have to wait between tickets to take traffic school?

2. the cop made me get out of my car on the freeway to go to his car just to sign the ticket.... is he allowed to do this?

3. the cop asked me whos car it was? whats the point of this... is it standard procedure?

4. does it say anywhere on the ticket if the cop estimated my speed, or used a radar gun...
i can answer a couple its 18 months between traffic school and usually on tickets ive seen (havent gotten one yet.....) it has a box for radar, laser, etc. so it should be checked for somethin. Sorry bout the ticket man, take it easy!

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Old 10-30-2006, 04:04 AM   #902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presns323i View Post
so i got a ticket today....
sorry to hear... Which agency? You say it was on the freeway, so I assume CHP.

Quote:
i have a few questions:

1. how long do i have to wait between tickets to take traffic school?
18 months. But some courts will allow a second offender traffic school (12 hours instead of 8) for a second ticket in the time frame allowed.

Quote:
2. the cop made me get out of my car on the freeway to go to his car just to sign the ticket.... is he allowed to do this?
Yeah, he can do that. Just out of curiosity, did you have your license with you? Did he get your thumb print?

Quote:
3. the cop asked me whos car it was? whats the point of this... is it standard procedure?
Not standard procedure, but if you're not the registered owner, you'll get asked that most of the time.

Quote:
4. does it say anywhere on the ticket if the cop estimated my speed, or used a radar gun...
I don't know, does it? If it's a CHP ticket the only thing it might have is a box that says Radar/Patrol vehicle. Chances are this; On a SoCal freeway, you were paced. Which means that the box wouldn't have any information in it.


Hope this helps, at least a little bit.
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Old 10-30-2006, 04:28 AM   #903
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Frobie, gotta quick question for you.

Situation: Two parties are involved in an accident and the person NOT at-fault does not have insurance.

Question: What happens in that case? Does the not at-fault party get screwed and automatically become at fault?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-30-2006, 04:49 AM   #904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frobie15 View Post
sorry to hear... Which agency? You say it was on the freeway, so I assume CHP.


18 months. But some courts will allow a second offender traffic school (12 hours instead of 8) for a second ticket in the time frame allowed.
ah... thanks a lot...
and yeah, CHP..
im pretty sure my last ticket was more than 18 months ago... so i should be fine...

Quote:
Yeah, he can do that. Just out of curiosity, did you have your license with you? Did he get your thumb print?

i had my license with me... he got me out of the car just to sign the ticket.. no thumb print.
i guess the real question is "why" he did it...
he also asked me what kind of car it was (for the ticket), and the speed he got me at... but he could have done that without getting me out


Quote:
I don't know, does it? If it's a CHP ticket the only thing it might have is a box that says Radar/Patrol vehicle. Chances are this; On a SoCal freeway, you were paced. Which means that the box wouldn't have any information in it.

hm.. yeah, theres a "radar unit/patrol vehicle" box... but its left empty
so i guess that means i was paced?

although, i dont see how he could have paced me... i had JUST gotten on the freeway... and i was speeding up to merge into the middle lanes... (i wasnt speeding for an extended period of time, i was probably driving at 65+ for around 5-10 seconds before i got pulled over, not enough time to pace i dont think?)
I had just switched a lane, when i saw the cop... i immediately looked at my speedo, which said 80 mph...


later on the cop asks me "did your radar detector go off?"
it didnt...
which leads me to think that he used radar... because i dont see why he would ask if he didnt... unless he was just trying to rub it in.
but then im tempted to think he didnt use radar, because my radar detector didnt go off...

the cop later tells me he "got" me at 84mph, but i swear i was going 80mph max
he even asked me how fast i was going... and i admitted to going 80..

Quote:
Not standard procedure, but if you're not the registered owner, you'll get asked that most of the time.
but the thing is, he didnt even see my registration before he asked.
it was one of the first things he asked me after he pulled me over....



another thing...
after he got behind me and turned the lights on, i immediately started to signal and switch lanes towards the side
although, there wasnt an emergency lane to pull over into, so i was looking for a place to pull over at.
The cop proceeds to turn on his sirens and get up right on my ass.
but there was nothing i could do but keep driving for somewhere to pull over at.
the whole time the cop is right on my ass, sirens on and everything...
is that normal? (to use sirens, drive up close, etc...)


personally, think this cop was just out to give me a hard time...
btw, he also gave me a front license plate ticket....


edit: sorry if this post reads really sloppy and unorganized... i have a lot on my mind right now.
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Old 10-30-2006, 08:54 AM   #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presns323i View Post
i had my license with me... he got me out of the car just to sign the ticket.. no thumb print.
i guess the real question is "why" he did it...
he also asked me what kind of car it was (for the ticket), and the speed he got me at... but he could have done that without getting me out
I'm guessing maybe he had something else in mind and wanted to see you reaction when you were asked to exit the vehicle. It was legal for him to ask you to get out, but if he didn't have an intention to get something further on you, seems uncalled for. Personally, I keep them in the car where I know they are contained (unless there is a potential for weapons or some other reason)




Quote:
Originally Posted by Presns323i View Post
another thing...
after he got behind me and turned the lights on, i immediately started to signal and switch lanes towards the side
although, there wasnt an emergency lane to pull over into, so i was looking for a place to pull over at.
The cop proceeds to turn on his sirens and get up right on my ass.
but there was nothing i could do but keep driving for somewhere to pull over at.
the whole time the cop is right on my ass, sirens on and everything...
is that normal? (to use sirens, drive up close, etc...)
As long as you immediately acknowledge my presence, I rarely use anything other than the one solid red light on the lightbar. Maybe your intentions were not immediately clear to him?? Bottom line is that if you don't feel comfortable stopping in one particular location (or there is nowhere practical for you to stop), I would have no problem if you proceeded to the nearest reasonable place to stop. Sound like this guy was a bit of a control freak maybe?

Overall, it doesn't sound like this guy did anything illegal or outside of policy, but just a little unconventional and made it a little tougher on you than was needed.
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Old 10-30-2006, 01:23 PM   #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iiilgsrlll View Post
Situation: Two parties are involved in an accident and the person NOT at-fault does not have insurance.

Question: What happens in that case? Does the not at-fault party get screwed and automatically become at fault?
The party without insurance is not going to be found at fault, but they will/should get a ticket for not having it.

The only time when I will try to find someone at fault is if they're unlicensed. Then I try to help the other guy out as best as I can.
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Old 10-30-2006, 01:47 PM   #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presns323i View Post
and yeah, CHP..
im pretty sure my last ticket was more than 18 months ago... so i should be fine...
You dojn't know when you got your last ticket

Quote:
i had my license with me... he got me out of the car just to sign the ticket.. no thumb print.
i guess the real question is "why" he did it...
I have no idea why he would pull you out of the car just to sign it. It's always safer (to some extent) to have the violator stay in the car.

Quote:
he also asked me what kind of car it was (for the ticket)
Your car is de-badged, right? I always like to put 330, or 323, or Accord rather than 2 door or 4 door. I guess that's why he would've done that.


Quote:
hm.. yeah, theres a "radar unit/patrol vehicle" box... but its left empty
so i guess that means i was paced?
I would think that you were paced. But, there are officers who never fill out that particular box.

Quote:
although, i dont see how he could have paced me... i had JUST gotten on the freeway... and i was speeding up to merge into the middle lanes... (i wasnt speeding for an extended period of time, i was probably driving at 65+ for around 5-10 seconds before i got pulled over, not enough time to pace i dont think?)
I had just switched a lane, when i saw the cop... i immediately looked at my speedo, which said 80 mph...
5-10 seconds is plenty of time to pace someone. At 80 mph you're traveling at about 120 feet per second. So, in 10 seconds, you've gone nearly a quarter mile. 5 seconds, nearly an eighth mile. However, it sounds like this is how it happened:

Officer is rolling along at 75-80 when you enter the freeway in front of him. He maintains his speed while you begin to pull away slightly. As soon as he's satisfied that you're driving fast enough to warrant a citation, he speeds up and "lights you up".

Quote:
later on the cop asks me "did your radar detector go off?"
it didnt...
which leads me to think that he used radar... because i dont see why he would ask if he didnt... unless he was just trying to rub it in.
but then im tempted to think he didnt use radar, because my radar detector didnt go off...
I dunno why he would ask you that. Only time I ask people that is if I used radar. But, I don't see how he could've used radar in this situation. We have a same direction while moving setting, but in LA/OC it's easier to pace people than to use radar on the freeway.

Quote:
the cop later tells me he "got" me at 84mph, but i swear i was going 80mph max
he even asked me how fast i was going... and i admitted to going 80..
You very easily could've been going 84. By your own admission you were going 80. But, you were accelerating/merging onto the freeway. So it's very possible that you got going as fast as 84 before you saw him and slowed.


Quote:
but the thing is, he didnt even see my registration before he asked.
it was one of the first things he asked me after he pulled me over....
I dunno... Did it take you awhile to find the registration and insurance info? If someone doesn't know exactly where they're registration and insurance is then I start thinking that it's not their car.


Quote:
after he got behind me and turned the lights on, i immediately started to signal and switch lanes towards the side
although, there wasnt an emergency lane to pull over into, so i was looking for a place to pull over at.
The cop proceeds to turn on his sirens and get up right on my ass.
but there was nothing i could do but keep driving for somewhere to pull over at.
the whole time the cop is right on my ass, sirens on and everything...
is that normal? (to use sirens, drive up close, etc...)
It's not normal, but, I've done it from time to time. It's possible that you weren't slowing down as quick as he would've liked. Or, you inadvertantly missed a cutout that you could've stopped in. I personally don't like driving that close to someone when I'm stopping them, but only because I don't want them to slam on their brakes and make me hit them.

Quote:
personally, think this cop was just out to give me a hard time...
btw, he also gave me a front license plate ticket....
He could've been trying to give you a hard time, but without being there, I can't tell you. As far as the front plate ticket is concerned, that sucks... But, if you don't have a front plate, you run that risk.
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Old 10-30-2006, 03:15 PM   #908
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alright, thanks a lot you guys.

im just basically trying to figure out why he asked me the things he did, and did the things he did...

trying to see if theres a reason other than he was purposely trying to give me a hard time.



and... i dont have the exact date of my last ticket memorized...
i just looked it up... and it looks like i just made the 18 month deadline... my last ticket was 19 months ago...
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Old 10-30-2006, 03:49 PM   #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frobie15 View Post
The party without insurance is not going to be found at fault, but they will/should get a ticket for not having it.

The only time when I will try to find someone at fault is if they're unlicensed. Then I try to help the other guy out as best as I can.
Thanks.
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Old 10-30-2006, 04:25 PM   #910
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Pres: it occurs to me that your car looks pretty racy and clearly you're an enthusiast (who apparently doesn't mind pulling onto the highway and getting to 80mph and over to the left lanes really quickly). For any CHP rolling down the highway behind you and monitoring merging traffic, you are probably making yourself an obvious target as a fast, aggressive driver. To which a law enforcement officer - whose job it is to be a faster-and-more-aggressive-than-you control mechanism (see: "tool") - reacted.

Frobie seems exceptionally cool and mild-mannered, which I find pretty rare given my experience with CHP and local enforcement who I would generally categorize as aggressive (or passive-aggressive) control freaks. Still, I rarely get ticketed and after driving sleeper cars, here is the number two rule I live by (only because it seems to work):

I never admit to conciously breaking the law. Pulled over for speeding and asked "Do you know how fast you were going?"

"No. I was focused on merging and changing lanes - how fast was I going?"

"84"

(mock horror). "Whoa. This car may be too smooth. Sorry about that, officer. No idea I was close to 80." blah blah

Try it sometime.
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Old 10-30-2006, 08:01 PM   #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makakio View Post
Pres: it occurs to me that your car looks pretty racy and clearly you're an enthusiast (who apparently doesn't mind pulling onto the highway and getting to 80mph and over to the left lanes really quickly). For any CHP rolling down the highway behind you and monitoring merging traffic, you are probably making yourself an obvious target as a fast, aggressive driver. To which a law enforcement officer - whose job it is to be a faster-and-more-aggressive-than-you control mechanism (see: "tool") - reacted.

Frobie seems exceptionally cool and mild-mannered, which I find pretty rare given my experience with CHP and local enforcement who I would generally categorize as aggressive (or passive-aggressive) control freaks. Still, I rarely get ticketed and after driving sleeper cars, here is the number two rule I live by (only because it seems to work):

I never admit to conciously breaking the law. Pulled over for speeding and asked "Do you know how fast you were going?"

"No. I was focused on merging and changing lanes - how fast was I going?"

"84"

(mock horror). "Whoa. This car may be too smooth. Sorry about that, officer. No idea I was close to 80." blah blah

Try it sometime.
lol, thinking back, there are a lot of things i wish i had done differently....
like i wish i would have asked him if he paced me or used radar... and if radar, i would have asked to see it...

then when he asked me what kinda car it was, something like "its a bmw... pretty nice car dont you think?"
since i was getting a ticket anyways... why not have a lil fun...
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Old 10-31-2006, 02:51 AM   #912
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Originally Posted by Makakio View Post
Pres: it occurs to me that your car looks pretty racy and clearly you're an enthusiast (who apparently doesn't mind pulling onto the highway and getting to 80mph and over to the left lanes really quickly). For any CHP rolling down the highway behind you and monitoring merging traffic, you are probably making yourself an obvious target as a fast, aggressive driver. To which a law enforcement officer - whose job it is to be a faster-and-more-aggressive-than-you control mechanism (see: "tool") - reacted.
This is more true than alot of people realize. The problem with modding a car and making it look cool is that it stands out in a crowd. Including the crowded freeway...

Quote:
Frobie seems exceptionally cool and mild-mannered, which I find pretty rare given my experience with CHP and local enforcement who I would generally categorize as aggressive (or passive-aggressive) control freaks.
Thank you. I try to be understanding to peoples concerns. Doesn't mean that I won't write just about everyone I stop a ticket, but I try to be cool about it. I've actually been told that I was the "Comic relief cop" on a traffic stop one time.

Quote:
I never admit to conciously breaking the law. Pulled over for speeding and asked "Do you know how fast you were going?"

"No. I was focused on merging and changing lanes - how fast was I going?"

"84"

(mock horror). "Whoa. This car may be too smooth. Sorry about that, officer. No idea I was close to 80." blah blah

Try it sometime.
Absolutely the correct way to handle the situation. You're admitting fault, without admitting fault, I guess. And, you're being cool about getting stopped. You'll probably still get a ticket, but it'll probably be for a lower speed than you were actually going (lower fine, eligible for traffic school).
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Old 10-31-2006, 08:54 AM   #913
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Hey Frobie,

So I was digging through my garage and I found my little motorcycle (pocket rocket). I had a friend of mines fix it for me and now its up and running. I've owned it for 3 years and only rode it once or twice on my driveway. A friend of mines told me that 49cc does not require a license but only a helmet and my pocket rocket so happened to be 49 cc.

I was wondering what are the regulations for riding the pocket rocket?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-31-2006, 10:27 AM   #914
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Originally Posted by DJBear View Post
Hey Frobie,

So I was digging through my garage and I found my little motorcycle (pocket rocket). I had a friend of mines fix it for me and now its up and running. I've owned it for 3 years and only rode it once or twice on my driveway. A friend of mines told me that 49cc does not require a license but only a helmet and my pocket rocket so happened to be 49 cc.

I was wondering what are the regulations for riding the pocket rocket?

Thanks in advance.
Per the CVC, a motorcycle technically is defined as:

' A "motorcycle" is any motor vehicle having a seat or
saddle for the use of the rider, designed to travel on not more than
three wheels in contact with the ground, and weighing less than 1,500
pounds.'


When these things were big a couple of years ago, we had a crackdown in my area. If I remember correctly, the memo that was issued at the station said that techically you need the motorcycle endorsement on your license, must have the proper lighting equipment, have a helmet, etc.

That's my best recollection, but I never enforced it so I don't remember exactly...
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Old 11-01-2006, 06:32 PM   #915
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Frobie said: "Absolutely the correct way to handle the situation. You're admitting fault, without admitting fault, I guess. And, you're being cool about getting stopped. You'll probably still get a ticket, but it'll probably be for a lower speed than you were actually going (lower fine, eligible for traffic school)."

A (very cool) police officer friend actually gave me this advice. He said it plays to the "didn't conciously know I was breaking the law and of course you would be correct and have all the official power in this situation" appeal. Once you hand that over without admitting blatant disregard for the Law (the officer being a control-oriented part of that), your chances of a warning get muuuch better as you've pretty much forced the officer to:

a) be a stereotypical, uncompassionate dick who is going to ticket you, or
b) show he/she is also a normal human being and can empathize

Anyway, it has worked more often than not for me. Good luck.
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Old 11-02-2006, 11:18 AM   #916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makakio View Post
A (very cool) police officer friend actually gave me this advice. He said it plays to the "didn't conciously know I was breaking the law and of course you would be correct and have all the official power in this situation" appeal. Once you hand that over without admitting blatant disregard for the Law (the officer being a control-oriented part of that), your chances of a warning get muuuch better as you've pretty much forced the officer to:

a) be a stereotypical, uncompassionate dick who is going to ticket you, or
b) show he/she is also a normal human being and can empathize
Stereotypes do exsist for a reason. But, you also have to look at each department defferently. If OHC pulls you over, he's will be much more likely to give you a warning than I will since he doesn't work for a traffic agency. My job is to go out and write tickets. So, whether or not someone is cool will change my view of the situation, but I'm probably not going to give someone a warning.

Over the last three months I've written 600+ tickets (mostly speeding) and only given 30 warnings. However, I don't stop people unless they are going 15 mph over the speed limit on two lane roads, and usually 20mph over on the freeway. Both of which are pretty fast, if you ask me. Not that I haven't written someone a ticket for less, but those are the norms. Right now, the record for lowest speed over the limit is 4mph. But, the guy passed me, then used the excuse that he thought it was okay to speed because he was in the fast lane.
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:00 PM   #917
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Oh I agree Frobie - if you get tagged at 20mph+ (85mph) on a highway by the CHP you're going too fast to be paying that little attention and you deserve to get written up.

What I found interesting the last time I was at traffic school was the number of people ticketed for 72-75 in a 65mph zone and the number of tickets for non-signaled lane changes. That's stereotype territory.

As for primary purpose of the agency - I thought you guys were out there to get drunk drivers, handle accidents and be first-responders in underserved local agency-monitored areas. But writing traffic tickets??
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:11 PM   #918
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Originally Posted by Makakio View Post
Oh I agree Frobie - if you get tagged at 20mph+ (85mph) on a highway by the CHP you're going too fast to be paying that little attention and you deserve to get written up.

What I found interesting the last time I was at traffic school was the number of people ticketed for 72-75 in a 65mph zone and the number of tickets for non-signaled lane changes. That's stereotype territory.

As for primary purpose of the agency - I thought you guys were out there to get drunk drivers, handle accidents and be first-responders in underserved local agency-monitored areas. But writing traffic tickets??


I don't think he neccessarily meant just writing cites, but it is a traffic based agency. Their goals and expertise are centered around the highway, where as mine is mainly focused on responding to crime calls and handling other crime issues. Sure the CHP handles a lot of criminal activity and complaints, and sure my department has traffic cars to write cites and handle accidents, but the general directive of both agencies differs a lot...
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Old 11-03-2006, 10:59 AM   #919
frobie15
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Originally Posted by Makakio View Post
What I found interesting the last time I was at traffic school was the number of people ticketed for 72-75 in a 65mph zone and the number of tickets for non-signaled lane changes. That's stereotype territory.
Was there a discussion of the actual speeds that people were driving? I, along with alot of guys/gals I work with will write people for a lower speed than they were actually driving just so they will be allowed to go to traffic school/pay a lower fine, etcetera. So, just because alot of the people got tickets for 75 or so doesn't mean that's the speed that they were actually going.

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As for primary purpose of the agency - I thought you guys were out there to get drunk drivers, handle accidents and be first-responders in underserved local agency-monitored areas. But writing traffic tickets??
You right, and wrong...

Our main focus is traffic related duties. Which means arresting drunk drivers, handling accidents, clearing roadway ocstructions, assisting disabled vehicles, and WRITING TICKETS. As long as I don't have any paperwork to do, or any other calls for service, I'm out writing tickets. Actually, the CHP is one of, if not the, largest traffic agencies in the world. Granted, when you work up here where I am now (middle of nowhere Fresno and Kings Counties), we clear alot of calls for the Sherrif. They're the ones who handle the majority of the criminal calls in the unincorporated county areas.
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Old 11-03-2006, 12:51 PM   #920
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Oh yeah - there was discussion of how fast people were actually going - and there were a fair amount of "75+mph" citations too (which I find surprising that officers are allowed to write given that there's so much specificity demanded of you guys). Most people in the 72-75mph category were adamant that they were singled out due to what they were driving (luxury car) or race or sex. None of them said they were going faster than their ticketed speed (except for the "75+") crew.

Understand the traffic emphasis. Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen a Sherrif in my neck of the woods at a traffic stop in years...
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