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Old 06-18-2007, 06:52 PM   #1721
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ah i c ! I guess I can try trial by written decleration. See how that goes. Thanks

Trial by written dec is really, really easy for the officer to complete. The only possible advantage to you is that the officer may be too lazy to complete the form. I used to recommend trial by written dec, and it sometimes seems like the best way to go, but nowadays, its a quick checklist and a few lines of narrative for the officer and its done so may not be the best choice if you think you may win, or if you want traffic school...
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:18 PM   #1722
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Wow, it went from Misdemeanor driving on a suspended license to potentially felony personation (personation is a wierd word, I know, but its what the CA penal code uses). He's opened himself and you up to some very serious problems.

I can't imagine that they are going to run the print, basically the reason that is taken is because he had no photo I.D., so the cop has to be able to prove that he is the person that the officer stopped. The print is taken in case person who was stopped claims that they were never stopped, and that the officer never saw photo I.D. to verify the violator's identity. Basically, you guys probably won't get caught, but if you do, you may be headed to state prison.
So basically, pay the fine. take the online class.

Don't complain.. or i'll surface up?
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:15 AM   #1723
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So basically, pay the fine. take the online class.

Don't complain.. or i'll surface up?
Well, there's nothing illegal that you did, really. Unless a prosecutor could prove that you told your little brother to use your name. Your dilemma is this: Do you want your little brother to have to learn a hard, hard lesson from his mistakes? He committed a felony by using your name. Which is just stupid on his part. I personally would go to court and say that it wasn't you. If they ask who it was tell them it was your brother. Let the court/officers be the ones that follow-up on it. They might just dismiss the ticket and not do the extra work to figure out if it was your brother.

Bottom line is that people need to learn fro their mistakes. Sometimes the mistakes that we make don't have too serious of consequences. But in this case your brother could see jail time. He'd probably never forgive you for being the one who stood up to his stupidity. And you guys won't ever talk again. If it were me Id just straight up turn him in. I know it seems cruel, but he's made his own bed, now he needs to sleep in it!
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:25 AM   #1724
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I have a question.

Heres the story. Today my bother got pulled over for speeding in a 45 zone going 57 on his way home for lunch break.

He didn't have his liscense on him due to it being suspended for DUI.

So here's the catch. He said he didn't have his lisc cause he left it at home. So instead. He gave out my info instead. Me being the bigger brother.

The cop issue the ticket to me. Thinking it was me. I'm fine with that. Since he didn't want the car get towed, and jail time.

But also they took his thumb print. He does have a record of course due to the DUI.

Will it come back to him? or will I just take the responsiblity? Do they even run the thumb print when they turn it in or its just for evidence incase I said, it wasn't me?
This same exact thing happened to me, except I was in the place of your little brother.

I had my license suspended (the cops on here will hate me for this story... ), and needed to drive. I had my younger brother's information memorized (driver license number...just in case), with his permission of course.

I got pulled over for taking a right turn to closely to another car (b.s. ticket, the car I "cut off" had plenty of room...didn't have to brake), so I gave the officer my little brother's information. They had me fingerprint as well, gave the ticket in his name, and that was it.

When the ticket came, I filed for traffic school and went, case closed. The thumb print only comes into play if my little brother were to have said that I wasn't him.


So basically, if you want to fight it and put it on your bro, you can and you'll win. If you want to be a good brother and bite the bullet (I would do at least that for my younger bro), then you can do that as well.

It's up to you....
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:49 AM   #1725
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Well, there's nothing illegal that you did, really. Unless a prosecutor could prove that you told your little brother to use your name. Your dilemma is this: Do you want your little brother to have to learn a hard, hard lesson from his mistakes? He committed a felony by using your name. Which is just stupid on his part. I personally would go to court and say that it wasn't you. If they ask who it was tell them it was your brother. Let the court/officers be the ones that follow-up on it. They might just dismiss the ticket and not do the extra work to figure out if it was your brother.

Bottom line is that people need to learn fro their mistakes. Sometimes the mistakes that we make don't have too serious of consequences. But in this case your brother could see jail time. He'd probably never forgive you for being the one who stood up to his stupidity. And you guys won't ever talk again. If it were me Id just straight up turn him in. I know it seems cruel, but he's made his own bed, now he needs to sleep in it!
Good point Frobie... We see it all the time, its a slippery slope. First your brother goes out and gets a DUI, now he's driving with a suspended license. He obviously has little/no respect for the law, or for other people on the road (for getting the DUI). Something like the new charge where he likely will spend at least a few days in jail and will likely have more strict probation once he is out may prevent him from continuing these petty crimes that often eventually snowball into much more serious stuff. Its very common that people that I end up arresting for the more serious felonies started their criminal career with petty things like a DUI. You may be doing your brother and your whole family a serious disservice by not turning him in. Just think, if he did this to you for a ticket, what other crimes would he pin on you?? What if he needed a few bucks and forged one of your checks?? He seems a little too comfortable already with putting you in a very serious situation that could result in you getting in trouble, so what is he going to do to you next? His selfishness and desire for self preservation is coming at a cost to you, what kind of a brother is he really being to you when he does something like this??
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Old 06-19-2007, 10:24 PM   #1726
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Hi Frobie... i need an officers point of view.........

I live in sacramento where the penalty for not having a front plate is only a fixing ticket with a $10 court fee. I do respect the law but to be honest, i dont plan on drilling holes on my bumper and putting the plate on. I just got my 3rd fixing ticket and have thought of a solution but I'm not sure how it'll hold up.

I'm planning on replacing my back plate with the dealerships frame and paper-plate. And putting back on the temporary registeration sticker on the front winshield, to make it seem like I just purchased my car.

Although my car is relatively stock lookin (silver e46 m3 w/ oem 19", 1" drop, angel-eyes, and blacked out side grills)... It does stand out a lot. It also doesn't help that i'm asian and look like i'm 19.

So my question is...

1. what are the chances of a cop thinking that my car isn't new and pulling me over? I'm guessing the penalty for this is the same as my previous fixing tickets because the last one was an electronic ticket from a motorcycle cop.. and under the description, it says "no front/rear plate".

2. I know that my past records of no-plate tickets will show up... so can they cite me for something other than a fixing ticket? even a fine? or increase in court fee? When i asked one of the workers at the court (where they process fees and tickets), he said my 3rd ticket was still $10. But does it depend on the cop?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:00 AM   #1727
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Hi Frobie... i need an officers point of view.........

I live in sacramento where the penalty for not having a front plate is only a fixing ticket with a $10 court fee. I do respect the law but to be honest, i dont plan on drilling holes on my bumper and putting the plate on. I just got my 3rd fixing ticket and have thought of a solution but I'm not sure how it'll hold up.

I'm planning on replacing my back plate with the dealerships frame and paper-plate. And putting back on the temporary registeration sticker on the front winshield, to make it seem like I just purchased my car.

Although my car is relatively stock lookin (silver e46 m3 w/ oem 19", 1" drop, angel-eyes, and blacked out side grills)... It does stand out a lot. It also doesn't help that i'm asian and look like i'm 19.

So my question is...

1. what are the chances of a cop thinking that my car isn't new and pulling me over? I'm guessing the penalty for this is the same as my previous fixing tickets because the last one was an electronic ticket from a motorcycle cop.. and under the description, it says "no front/rear plate".

2. I know that my past records of no-plate tickets will show up... so can they cite me for something other than a fixing ticket? even a fine? or increase in court fee? When i asked one of the workers at the court (where they process fees and tickets), he said my 3rd ticket was still $10. But does it depend on the cop?

Thanks in advance!
Frobie will know better about nor cal than I do, but I pull people over for no plate all the time (maybe a dozen times a night or more on Sunset Bl). Although 90% of the time I end up finding out that they "just got the plates" or "they haven't arrived yet" and people just aren't putting them on for aesthetics, I have found more guns, drugs, warrants, parolees by stopping people for no plates than just about anything else. And I'm not talking about in crappy cars either, most cars cruising Sunset Bl are $50-100K+.

Anyway, its not hard to spot a car that is clearly not brand new, especially if you have mods, so in my area, you'll be stopped and cited non-stop. Keep in mind also, that no plates (even if you just bought the car an hour ago) is always a good legal reason to stop you, and if your car has anything illegal on it, or you've got something you shouldn't, or if one of your passengers has something they shouldn't, there is a chance the cop will find it all because he stopped you for no plates.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:06 PM   #1728
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1. what are the chances of a cop thinking that my car isn't new and pulling me over? I'm guessing the penalty for this is the same as my previous fixing tickets because the last one was an electronic ticket from a motorcycle cop.. and under the description, it says "no front/rear plate".

2. I know that my past records of no-plate tickets will show up... so can they cite me for something other than a fixing ticket? even a fine? or increase in court fee? When i asked one of the workers at the court (where they process fees and tickets), he said my 3rd ticket was still $10. But does it depend on the cop?

Thanks in advance!
It greatly depends on the cop. And, by putting the dealer plates back on it you're running the risk of getting a non-correctable ticket. Which means that the fine is going to be in the area of $140 or so. That's what I'd do if I stopped you.

Keep in mind that there is a way for us to check the date that your registration card, and thusly your plates, were mailed to you. Anytime that I stop a newer car with dealer plates I ask for the RCID (registration card issue date). If it's over sixty days previous, I'm going to write up the owner of the car for not having plates at all.
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Old 06-20-2007, 02:29 PM   #1729
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OHCM3 and Frobie15, can you both please give me your own interpretation of the below statutes ?

thanks.

39:3-74. Windshields must be unobstructed and equipped with cleaners
Every motor vehicle having a windshield shall be equipped with at least one device in good working order for cleaning rain, snow or other moisture from the windshield so as to provide clear vision for the driver, and all such devices shall be so constructed and installed as to be operated or controlled by the driver.

No person shall drive any motor vehicle with any sign, poster, sticker or other non-transparent material upon the front windshield, wings, deflectors, side shields, corner lights adjoining windshield or front side windows of such vehicle other than a certificate or other article required to be so displayed by statute or by regulations of the commissioner.

No person shall drive any vehicle so constructed, equipped or loaded as to unduly interfere with the driver's vision to the front and to the sides.

39:3-75. Safety glass
The term "safety glass" shall be construed as meaning glass so treated or combined with other materials as to reduce, in comparison with ordinary sheet glass or plate glass, the likelihood of injury to persons by objects from exterior sources or by glass when the glass is cracked or broken. The term "safety glazing material" shall be construed as meaning "safety glass" ; or other glazing materials, such as plastics, produced for the purpose of safety in glazing; or a combination of safety glass and other safety glazing material. The term "approved safety glazing material" shall be construed as meaning safety glazing material of a type approved by the director. In the approving of safety glazing materials, the director is hereby given authority to make use of recognized standards to confine the use of certain types of safety glazing materials to a specific location in or on the vehicle, or to a certain purpose.

No person shall drive any motor vehicle manufactured on or after July first, nineteen hundred and thirty-five and registered in this State unless such vehicle is equipped with approved safety glazing material wherever glazing is used in doors, windows and windshields. The term "windshield" shall be construed to include wings, deflectors and side shields; also front corner lights adjoining windshields.

Every section of safety glazing material shall be legibly and permanently marked with the manufacturers' distinctive designations, under which the safety glazing material was approved, so as to be visible when installed.

No person shall drive any motor vehicle equipped with safety glazing material which causes undue or unsafe distortion of visibility or equipped with unduly fractured, discolored or deteriorated safety glazing material, and the director may revoke the registration of any such vehicle.

Amended by L.1949, c. 258, p. 823, s. 1.
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Old 06-20-2007, 03:32 PM   #1730
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OHCM3 and Frobie15, can you both please give me your own interpretation of the below statutes ?

thanks.

.


Best I can tell, the first is similar to CA law which prohibits obstructing a driver's clear field of view through their windshield. The other is geared more toward car manufacturers and dealers then the general public. I don't recall seeing anything like this in the CA Veh Code...
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:06 AM   #1731
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Dear Frobie,
I've gotten pulled over in NYC on LIE highway for no apparent reason. The cop said he pulled me over because I cut his friend off? As he was giving me the ticket, he said just go to court and the ticket will be dismissed. However, on the ticket it says I've been written up for following too close!?!?! After going to the Department of Traffic Violation, they gave me a court date for December 14th! By then I'll be in school in Boston! Anyways, I don't know what to do, the police said he'll dismiss it but apparently it looks like now I have to fight for "following too close" ?!?! and if I tell the judge I wasn't following to close then it would be my word against his. Should I call the cop and talk to him in person about this matter? or should I just plead guilty and pay $90 and receive 4 points? Or if I want to fight this case, I would need to send a written explanation because I'd be in school by December. So how would written explanation stand against actually being there in person to fight the case? Thanks for your time!
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Old 06-21-2007, 07:55 AM   #1732
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Best I can tell, the first is similar to CA law which prohibits obstructing a driver's clear field of view through their windshield. The other is geared more toward car manufacturers and dealers then the general public. I don't recall seeing anything like this in the CA Veh Code...
here's the deal....most officers that pull over ppl for front tinted windows are citing 3-74. but no where in that statute does it reference tint film. it says something about stickers and non-transparent material. but automotive window tint film is transparent, and it does not obstruct the driver's vision to the outside. i bet there are no cases where anyone was involved in or caused an accident due to front window tint.

the problem with the way this statute is worded can be seen when you compare it to other state's tint laws. for example, NY's requirement gives a percentage of visible light, which allows you to tint your windows so long as the percentage is met. in NJ, if the interpretation of this law by enforcement is to say that window tint is recognized as an obstruction to view thru the windows, then why is it not considered a problem for the back windows and rear windsheild ? see what i'm saying ?

the way this statute is worded, can be contested in court. if i get a violation for 3-74 and given a summons to remove front window tint, i might just be able to fight it.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:02 AM   #1733
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Dear Frobie,
I've gotten pulled over in NYC on LIE highway for no apparent reason. The cop said he pulled me over because I cut his friend off? As he was giving me the ticket, he said just go to court and the ticket will be dismissed. However, on the ticket it says I've been written up for following too close!?!?! After going to the Department of Traffic Violation, they gave me a court date for December 14th! By then I'll be in school in Boston! Anyways, I don't know what to do, the police said he'll dismiss it but apparently it looks like now I have to fight for "following too close" ?!?! and if I tell the judge I wasn't following to close then it would be my word against his. Should I call the cop and talk to him in person about this matter? or should I just plead guilty and pay $90 and receive 4 points? Or if I want to fight this case, I would need to send a written explanation because I'd be in school by December. So how would written explanation stand against actually being there in person to fight the case? Thanks for your time!
bro....i feel your pain, i used to commute the LIE a lot back in the day. i got pulled over once by a camaro. guy seemed like he had the 'one-up on everybody' mentality. what happened to u is BS. sadly it's your word vs. his, and if you fought it in court you'd better come off as professional and every word you say has to be on the money.

otherwise i think if you got pulled over on the LIE, set your phone or ipod or something to record everything that's said, because they think they can do whatever they want and that needs to end.
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Old 06-21-2007, 09:33 AM   #1734
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here's the deal....most officers that pull over ppl for front tinted windows are citing 3-74. but no where in that statute does it reference tint film. it says something about stickers and non-transparent material. but automotive window tint film is transparent, and it does not obstruct the driver's vision to the outside. i bet there are no cases where anyone was involved in or caused an accident due to front window tint.

the problem with the way this statute is worded can be seen when you compare it to other state's tint laws. for example, NY's requirement gives a percentage of visible light, which allows you to tint your windows so long as the percentage is met. in NJ, if the interpretation of this law by enforcement is to say that window tint is recognized as an obstruction to view thru the windows, then why is it not considered a problem for the back windows and rear windsheild ? see what i'm saying ?

the way this statute is worded, can be contested in court. if i get a violation for 3-74 and given a summons to remove front window tint, i might just be able to fight it.
Gotcha...yeah, its interesting as it doesn't seem to specify regarding tint. Like most laws, they are often up to interpretation but this seems like a stretch. I know in CA, we have a specific vehicle code section for tint.
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Old 06-21-2007, 09:34 AM   #1735
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Dear Frobie,
I've gotten pulled over in NYC on LIE highway for no apparent reason. The cop said he pulled me over because I cut his friend off? As he was giving me the ticket, he said just go to court and the ticket will be dismissed. However, on the ticket it says I've been written up for following too close!?!?! After going to the Department of Traffic Violation, they gave me a court date for December 14th! By then I'll be in school in Boston! Anyways, I don't know what to do, the police said he'll dismiss it but apparently it looks like now I have to fight for "following too close" ?!?! and if I tell the judge I wasn't following to close then it would be my word against his. Should I call the cop and talk to him in person about this matter? or should I just plead guilty and pay $90 and receive 4 points? Or if I want to fight this case, I would need to send a written explanation because I'd be in school by December. So how would written explanation stand against actually being there in person to fight the case? Thanks for your time!
As is the case w/ 99.99999% of cites when it is your word vs. his, if you can afford to just pay it off and move on, your time and efforts are more valuable then $90 (even if you want to fight it for the principle of the thing, I'd rather pay the $90 and never hear about it again)
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Old 06-21-2007, 09:58 AM   #1736
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4 points for following too closely
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:47 AM   #1737
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bro....i feel your pain, i used to commute the LIE a lot back in the day. i got pulled over once by a camaro. guy seemed like he had the 'one-up on everybody' mentality. what happened to u is BS. sadly it's your word vs. his, and if you fought it in court you'd better come off as professional and every word you say has to be on the money.

otherwise i think if you got pulled over on the LIE, set your phone or ipod or something to record everything that's said, because they think they can do whatever they want and that needs to end.
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As is the case w/ 99.99999% of cites when it is your word vs. his, if you can afford to just pay it off and move on, your time and efforts are more valuable then $90 (even if you want to fight it for the principle of the thing, I'd rather pay the $90 and never hear about it again)

I just think it's really unfair that the cops can pull over anyone for apparently no reason and write down some BS reason on the ticket, especially a one that doesn't coincide with his explanation at the moment when he pulled me over. Following too closely? There was no car ahead of me within 1/4 mile in the lane which i was driving in.

I assume he just pulled me over because I was driving a BMW and looked young. Unfortunately there recently have been 2 deadly BMW car crashes in Long Island NY Area and that might have contributed to this matter.

Anyways, what I want to know is, can't I go to the police officer who wrote me the cite and speak to him about it? "You told me the ticket will be dismissed as long as I take it to the court... but now I'm in this situation.. blah blah blah?".

Last question, are NY points transferrable? I want to know if I plead guilty and recieve the 4 points, if it would go on my MA license.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:53 AM   #1738
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Oh! I also had my girl with me in the car, wouldn't she be counted as a witness and testified that there was no car ahead of me within 1/4 mile range, so the Following too close would be voided and also testify to the court what the cop has told me?
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Old 06-21-2007, 12:20 PM   #1739
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Oh! I also had my girl with me in the car, wouldn't she be counted as a witness and testified that there was no car ahead of me within 1/4 mile range, so the Following too close would be voided and also testify to the court what the cop has told me?
she is a witness yes. like i said, if you look and speak professional in court, your word will be taken seriously. to save you from getting 4 pts off your license, i would say plead not guilty and chew this guy out in court with everything u've got. you might get lucky, and he'll pull a no-show. remember that points won't be removed from your license until a judgement has been made or you admit guilt. so plead not guilty and do what's necessary.

i used to have ins. in NYC when you get a moving violation and points come off your license, trust me your insurance company will eat you alive....

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Old 06-21-2007, 12:25 PM   #1740
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My Ride: 00' Civic si (DD)
Thanks Frobie and OHCM3 for the response to my no-front-plate situation.

Although my friends have gone years w/ the dealership plates (one of them for 6 years in a Lancer), the dealership plate idea is out of the question now. I won't risk it.I appreciate you guys for not mentioning to just "put your front plate on", especially since you guys are cops... thanks for respecting me. And you're right OHCM3, a cop pulled me over once for no-front-plate and they ended up finding some Mary Jane... He let me go w/ a fixing ticket.

I have found a reasonable solution this time... my friend just got this front plate holder that folds in for his C6 Vette. LINK.
I guess i can always tuck it in when i roll up to a club =)

ONE QUESTION THO:
if i had it tucked in and a cop pulls me over... would you believe me if i said.. "someone must have messed with it and i didnt notice"?
OR... maybe i can just not even install it.. and have it on my passenger side saying I'm on my way to buy some screws to get it put in?

What would be more believable?
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cop advice, f&*k tha police, i <3 frobie, lion is delicious, nwa

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