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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 04-03-2006, 06:15 PM   #41
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it must be just me thinking that twin turbo and 302 hp is on the very very weak side...

agreed with the comment on e46 becoming classics...
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:20 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by 04ImolaZHP
it must be just me thinking that twin turbo and 302 hp is on the very very weak side...

agreed with the comment on e46 becoming classics...

Twin turbo RX7's, Supras, etc. made that much power at the flywheel (..although the conservative rating was 276 HP), and still pulled off 13 second 1/4 mile times. What's so weak about that?
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:21 PM   #43
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Fast enough for me
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Old 04-03-2006, 09:06 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04ImolaZHP
it must be just me thinking that twin turbo and 302 hp is on the very very weak side...

agreed with the comment on e46 becoming classics...

ITs not weak at all, also the twin turbo was not meant for speed only its meant for driveability and to reduce any lag through the rev range.

BMW's hallmark has always been constant power through the entire band, not peaky highs.

Even though they went to FI it doesnt mean they want the car to perform unBMW like.
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Old 04-03-2006, 09:32 PM   #45
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Look at the B5 S4...2.7TT, only made 250hp.

I'm going to go bang my head against the wall with only 255hp in my E90.... I'll have to test drive one, but I've never been afan of the turbo powerband. It's kind of sad to see, but I'm also happy at the same time. Only time will tell...
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Old 04-03-2006, 11:26 PM   #46
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I know I will get flamed for this.. but.. Is it just me or does the back look exactly like the new civics? Power is great but aesthetics of the car needs to be improved.
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Old 04-03-2006, 11:40 PM   #47
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It should be noted that it's a sequential turbo setup.
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Old 04-03-2006, 11:49 PM   #48
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it's not bad, but I still prefer the e46 10fold.


..
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Old 04-04-2006, 12:08 AM   #49
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When I first saw the photo (thinking it was real) I was appalled , the headlights dont even remotely resemble a BMW's, but what many have to take into consideration is that as mentioned by a previous poster, the tape was pchopped off. Thats actually a hell of a job, improvising both headlights completely. Im sure that when its REAL photos come out, the headlights will be bigger and resemble more closely those of the E90's. When the E90 spy pics came out w/ the tape I thought it looked like some kind of twacked out bat creature, but once it was officially released it was actually very tasteful.
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Old 04-04-2006, 12:42 AM   #50
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if you wanna see the article, i scanned it, the part where the page splits is ugly, get over it.

Anyone know what wheels are in the main picture?

I want a set of those!

Ignacio
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Old 04-04-2006, 12:44 AM   #51
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there are going to be three models available. theyre keeping the 3.0 and 2.5 so its going to be 325, 330, and 335i. wonder why they decided the drop the coupe designation CI or IS

i like it better now even though these are p-chopped but after seeing those spy pics of the new m3 and the wider body, its ruined me. its like looking at and m3 next to a 330. hahaa..... but from these prospective pictures, not bad
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:10 AM   #52
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dual exhaust = thumpsup
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Old 04-04-2006, 10:27 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer jon
there are going to be three models available. theyre keeping the 3.0 and 2.5 so its going to be 325, 330, and 335i. wonder why they decided the drop the coupe designation CI or IS

i like it better now even though these are p-chopped but after seeing those spy pics of the new m3 and the wider body, its ruined me. its like looking at and m3 next to a 330. hahaa..... but from these prospective pictures, not bad

I doubt they will keep the 325 for to long though. I think they already predetermined its fate when they put the 3.0 in it so they had lower manufacturing costs later on.
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:47 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Unveiled
Twin turbo RX7's, Supras, etc. made that much power at the flywheel (..although the conservative rating was 276 HP), and still pulled off 13 second 1/4 mile times. What's so weak about that?
correct me if i am wrong but the rx7's and supras came out in 1993?!?! we are now in 2007? so it took bmw 14 years to come up with the same amount of hp that the japanese could 14 years ago?

sequential turbos are great but they can also make a lot more power than what the 335 proposes. i am personally rather disappointed with that hp figure? you will probably end up paying $5k more for that 335i vs the 330 and all you will get is a 48 hp bump? i just think that they need to unleash a can of whoop ass and make these engines as powerful as they can be.

and before we start the never ending hp isn't everything debate, i am the first to agree. i am currently in a rental Magnum r/t with the 340 hp and that car has nothing on the 540i. i am just comparing a bmw to a bmw. i mean it took them long enough to make the 550i for crying out loud. make the same thing with these cars. people are not going to stop buying 550's because you can get a 330+ hp engine in a 330i chasis...

/end rant.
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Old 04-04-2006, 12:07 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by 04ImolaZHP
correct me if i am wrong but the rx7's and supras came out in 1993?!?! we are now in 2007? so it took bmw 14 years to come up with the same amount of hp that the japanese could 14 years ago?

sequential turbos are great but they can also make a lot more power than what the 335 proposes. i am personally rather disappointed with that hp figure? you will probably end up paying $5k more for that 335i vs the 330 and all you will get is a 48 hp bump? i just think that they need to unleash a can of whoop ass and make these engines as powerful as they can be.

and before we start the never ending hp isn't everything debate, i am the first to agree. i am currently in a rental Magnum r/t with the 340 hp and that car has nothing on the 540i. i am just comparing a bmw to a bmw. i mean it took them long enough to make the 550i for crying out loud. make the same thing with these cars. people are not going to stop buying 550's because you can get a 330+ hp engine in a 330i chasis...

/end rant.
It takes the Germans longer because they do it right first of all. Secondly, up until this last year there was a difference between German HP and Japanese HP. Yes it's true. Japanese and Germans were using different standards to rate horsepower. The German way is more accurate of real life since it included attached accessories that would be included in the car. The Japanese way was bullshit. They were inflating their HP ratings by testing motors without accessories that rob HP. How do I know this. I just learned a $30,000 lesson. I bought a 200 Bullshit HP Acura TSX because the 325i was only 184 Real HP. The car never broke 8 seconds 0-60 even with the cool 6 speed gearbox.
Then they announce that they are applying the new standard to Japanese cars and my 200 BS HP TSX, dropped in rated HP. I kept it 10 months and sold it. I bought a used 325i with a 5 speed and only 184 HP. The 325i is much quicker than my old TSX bu over half a second. FACT.

Finally, I have been involved with cars for over 20 years and have even worked in Nissan's GTP program in the Dyno testing rooms and HP is not everything by itself. When we started winning races in IMSA GTP we were using a 1000 HP Single Turbo car and eventually finished with a 800 HP thin turbo that was still quicker. So automotive design involves more than just the top HP rating. It is a combination of HP+Torque+Weight+Gearing.

Finally, while those cars you mentioned made a lot of power, they also had serious issues like oil usage, terrible mileage, reliability problems, Toyota had head problems, etc. Yes the Germans are slow and cautious but it is because they design cars holistically, not just going for the ego numbers. That is why we love them and that is the lesson I learned with my TSX.

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Old 04-04-2006, 12:16 PM   #56
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what wheels are those on the main picture

Guys, What wheels are those on the main picture of the article????

The 5 spoke ones on the main picture.


I gotta have a set of those, anyone know?

Ignacio
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Old 04-04-2006, 12:22 PM   #57
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It takes the Germans longer because they do it right first of all. Secondly, up until this last year there was a difference between German HP and Japanese HP. Yes it's true. Japanese and Germans were using different standards to rate horsepower. The German way is more accurate of real life since it included attached accessories that would be included in the car. The Japanese way was bullshit. They were inflating their HP ratings by testing motors without accessories that rob HP. How do I know this. I just learned a $30,000 lesson. I bought a 200 Bullshit HP Acura TSX because the 325i was only 184 Real HP. The car never broke 8 seconds 0-60 even with the cool 6 speed gearbox.
Then they announce that they are applying the new standard to Japanese cars and my 200 BS HP TSX, dropped in rated HP. I kept it 10 months and sold it. I bought a used 325i with a 5 speed and only 184 HP. The 325i is much quicker than my old TSX bu over half a second. FACT.

Finally, I have been involved with cars for over 20 years and have even worked in Nissan's GTP program in the Dyno testing rooms and HP is not everything by itself. When we started winning races in IMSA GTP we were using a 1000 HP Single Turbo car and eventually finished with a 800 HP thin turbo that was still quicker. So automotive design involves more than just the top HP rating. It is a combination of HP+Torque+Weight+Gearing.

Finally, while those cars you mentioned made a lot of power, they also had serious issues like oil usage, terrible mileage, reliability problems, Toyota had head problems, etc. Yes the Germans are slow and cautious but it is because they design cars holistically, not just going for the ego numbers. That is why we love them and that is the lesson I learned with my TSX.
Great input.
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Old 04-04-2006, 12:26 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nacho
.... So automotive design involves more than just the top HP rating. It is a combination of HP+Torque+Weight+Gearing.

Finally, while those cars you mentioned made a lot of power, they also had serious issues like oil usage, terrible mileage, reliability problems, Toyota had head problems, etc. Yes the Germans are slow and cautious but it is because they design cars holistically, not just going for the ego numbers. That is why we love them and that is the lesson I learned with my TSX.
This was exactly what I was trying to say earlier. If they wanted to I am sure they could get 400hp easily out of this setup, but at what cost.

With this current setup it will be faster then anything in its class and get better MPG as well.

Its setup for power throughout the range which again I will say is a BMW hallmark, not peaky highs.

Its also setup to be smooth, another BMW trademark.

Lastly since the M3 is 400hp how much higher do you want them to go? And if they did the price would be alot more. Think of other things that go into creating that much HP, larger brakes, stiffer suspension more electronics, there is more cost involved.
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Old 04-04-2006, 12:29 PM   #59
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This was exactly what I was trying to say earlier. If they wanted to I am sure they could get 400hp easily out of this setup, but at what cost.

With this current setup it will be faster then anything in its class and get better MPG as well.

Its setup for power throughout the range which again I will say is a BMW hallmark, not peaky highs.

Its also setup to be smooth, another BMW trademark.

Lastly since the M3 is 400hp how much higher do you want them to go? And if they did the price would be alot more. Think of other things that go into creating that much HP, larger brakes, stiffer suspension more electronics, there is more cost involved.
I'm glad that logic isn't completely foreign on this forum.
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:06 PM   #60
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Its setup for power throughout the range which again I will say is a BMW hallmark, not peaky highs.

Its also setup to be smooth, another BMW trademark.
Exactly, well said. I didn't mention it either but among the other issues I had with my brand new Acura TSX was the the power band was peaky and a little loud in respect to the power it was making. The fully electronic gas pedal was a pain the butt to get used to. It had "no feel". The car was zingy yet not really fast. The steering was nervous at high speed. The brakes were overboosted at low speed and yet not really any stronger than my 325i brakes. The clutch was super soft for comfort but vague and had a long throw. It was difficult to drive the car smoothly if you were being aggressive. The seats were uncomfortable and though it has an awesome 6 speed, it started gettng notchy at 10K miles. Second gear was grinding sometimes. I never really got comfortable with the car even though ON PAPER it was everything the 325 with more options. In reality, the 325i is much better. The driving experience is awesome. The car is not a rocket, but smooth thrust that is still faster than the TSX. The brakes feel perfect, the clutch is perfect in the way it engages. The sport seats are very nice. Sill not the best, but much better than Honda sport seats. The Bmw seats actually hold you in when cornering. So the point is, we like German cars because the Germans are obsessive about making a harmonic machine were all components work together. If I would take a shot at the Germans, it would be in their electronics. It would be fair to say in that case that the Japanese are probably better but not just basing it on a HP figure which can be very misleading. I recently got a review also about the new Lexus 350. On paper it is faster than the 330, it has more power, etc. But every reviewer, still picks the 330 over it because they say the car feels unstable at hight speed and too much electronic intrusion. The fact is, the Japanese are very close and they have some things that are better, but they can't seem to put the whole package together. One day they will, I think but they are still not yet when it comes to the driving experience. They have already beaten the Germans in the Value but value does not inspire. I own a Toyota truck for value but I don't just want value in my life. That would be like picking a wife because she is a good value or is just has a higher sex rating without taking into respect the "whole package."

Ignacio
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