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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 04-04-2006, 01:11 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unveiled


As far as I can tell, it is Japanese companies making the shift, not European companies.
dido,

anyone know what the MSRP range of the new 335????
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:13 PM   #62
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i think its great how bmw finally made a car with FI; especially since they put it the three series as well. Thats great. 13's is definetly fast enough. Right now stock 3 series arent beating the srt4,350z,g35,subaru legacy, and acouple other cars. Ofcoarse none of them can compare to the all around of having a bmw but speed wise. BMW JUST STEPPED THEIR GAME UP!!
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:17 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by nacho
Exactly, well said. I didn't mention it either but among the other issues I had with my brand new Acura TSX was the the power band was peaky and a little loud in respect to the power it was making. The fully electronic gas pedal was a pain the butt to get used to. It had "no feel". The car was zingy yet not really fast. The steering was nervous at high speed. The brakes were overboosted at low speed and yet not really any stronger than my 325i brakes. The clutch was super soft for comfort but vague and had a long throw. It was difficult to drive the car smoothly if you were being aggressive. The seats were uncomfortable and though it has an awesome 6 speed, it started gettng notchy at 10K miles. Second gear was grinding sometimes. I never really got comfortable with the car even though ON PAPER it was everything the 325 with more options. In reality, the 325i is much better. The driving experience is awesome. The car is not a rocket, but smooth thrust that is still faster than the TSX. The brakes feel perfect, the clutch is perfect in the way it engages. The sport seats are very nice. Sill not the best, but much better than Honda sport seats. The Bmw seats actually hold you in when cornering. So the point is, we like German cars because the Germans are obsessive about making a harmonic machine were all components work together. If I would take a shot at the Germans, it would be in their electronics. It would be fair to say in that case that the Japanese are probably better but not just basing it on a HP figure which can be very misleading. I recently got a review also about the new Lexus 350. On paper it is faster than the 330, it has more power, etc. But every reviewer, still picks the 330 over it because they say the car feels unstable at hight speed and too much electronic intrusion. The fact is, the Japanese are very close and they have some things that are better, but they can't seem to put the whole package together. One day they will, I think but they are still not yet when it comes to the driving experience. They have already beaten the Germans in the Value but value does not inspire. I own a Toyota truck for value but I don't just want value in my life. That would be like picking a wife because she is a good value or is just has a higher sex rating without taking into respect the "whole package."

Ignacio
good post, nice comparison too.
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:20 PM   #64
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:29 PM   #65
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and before we start the never ending hp isn't everything debate, i am the first to agree. i am currently in a rental Magnum r/t with the 340 hp and that car has nothing on the 540i. i am just comparing a bmw to a bmw. i mean it took them long enough to make the 550i for crying out loud. make the same thing with these cars. people are not going to stop buying 550's because you can get a 330+ hp engine in a 330i chasis...
i dont disagree with you guys on what you are saying. i absolutely love bmw's as exhibited by the fact that we have two. as you will note above i said the same thing you did in my post.

i am just comparing a bmw with a bmw. in fact i am comparing the same line of cars. i am looking at potentially dropping a supercharger in my car and am looking to pick up an extra 100+ hp with the stage one kit for like $5k. that is still more hp than what the new 335i will be and i guarantee you that mine will be faster and will drive just as good as the 335i. so, for once we are comparing apples for apples. i mean on paper the e90 330i should be faster and better than the e46 zhp but it is not. it has more hp, the same differential and other improvements but is not better. now add 47 hp and it should be faster but in my opinion the new 335i should be just about in the old m3 territory which with what i am seeing it probably will not be short of a different rear end and other improvements.

all i am saying is that they CAN do better. why waste a twin turbo for 47 hp? if you're gonna put a turbo do it right and get at least 100 hp out of it. that is all i am saying. hell, they are putting a twin turbo which they had to develop etc, when they could have just as easily stuffed the old m3 engine there and saved themselves a bunch of r&d costs and had one hell of a car. instead they waisted a bunch of money making an underachiever engine super duper smooth when they already had one ready.

to each their own, some of you like the new styling some dont. i happen to not like the new styling and found that the engine configurations do not do anything for me either. at least with the 5 series, even though i dont like the styling, i have an engine that inspires me.

and please dont tell me that the supras had problems. it is not like our cars are perfect...
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:31 PM   #66
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Some of you guys are saying that this is a sequential turbo setup. According to the engine press release this isn't a sequential. It has 1 turbo for 3 cylinders. People hear twin turbo and immidiately think it has to have huge horsepower. This particular setup is meant to be a lower hp setup that achieves high levels of torque at low rpms. What most of you guys that have only dealt with NA engines need to realize is that the bigger the turbo the longer it takes to get into the power band. With these small turbos each only powering half the cylinders there is very little lag. As such this setup will perform just as good as a higher horsepower larger turbo setup until higher speeds.
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:38 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by 04ImolaZHP
i am looking at potentially dropping a supercharger in my car and am looking to pick up an extra 100+ hp with the stage one kit for like $5k. that is still more hp than what the new 335i will be and i guarantee you that mine will be faster and will drive just as good as the 335i.
With this you would have spent 5k+ install on top of the price of the car. With the 335, you'll be able to spend several hundred dollars on a chip which includes install and up the boost and be making 30-60 more hp, not to mention the incredible modability in other areas for a turbo engine. And the 335 will be faster than your s/c'ed 330
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:38 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by 3erdriver
Some of you guys are saying that this is a sequential turbo setup. According to the engine press release this isn't a sequential. It has 1 turbo for 3 cylinders. People hear twin turbo and immidiately think it has to have huge horsepower. This particular setup is meant to be a lower hp setup that achieves high levels of torque at low rpms. What most of you guys that have only dealt with NA engines need to realize is that the bigger the turbo the longer it takes to get into the power band. With these small turbos each only powering half the cylinders there is very little lag. As such this setup will perform just as good as a higher horsepower larger turbo setup until higher speeds.
i thought the whole idea behind the sequential turbos is to eliminate lag while providing lots of top end hp. i.e. small turbo first to get things rolling and a bigger turbo to keep the boost up?
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:41 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by 3erdriver
With this you would have spent 5k+ install on top of the price of the car. With the 335, you'll be able to spend several hundred dollars on a chip which includes install and up the boost and be making 30-60 more hp, not to mention the incredible modability in other areas for a turbo engine.
see, my point exactly!!! why do i have to do that when they could have just as easily done that!?!?!

at least with my car you could say that they did it because it would have been cost prohibitive to build an NA engine to produce 300+ hp. with the turbo they have no excuse! it is like me buying a supercharger that only added 50 hp for $5k. nobody on this board would do it. and if they did they would be looking for larger pullies etc. why not just do it right from the begining.
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:43 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by 04ImolaZHP
i thought the whole idea behind the sequential turbos is to eliminate lag while providing lots of top end hp. i.e. small turbo first to get things rolling and a bigger turbo to keep the boost up?
Theres more than one way to skin a cat. Each different twin turbo setup has different characteristics. BMW chose to go with 1 turbo per 3 cylinders, you'll have to ask them why they went with that over a sequential setup like in their diesels.
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Old 04-04-2006, 01:47 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by 04ImolaZHP
see, my point exactly!!! why do i have to do that when they could have just as easily done that!?!?!

at least with my car you could say that they did it because it would have been cost prohibitive to build an NA engine to produce 300+ hp. with the turbo they have no excuse! it is like me buying a supercharger that only added 50 hp for $5k. nobody on this board would do it. and if they did they would be looking for larger pullies etc. why not just do it right from the begining.
You're missing the point of BMW...they aren't ferrari, they're first and foremost a luxury car maker. When you up the boost you decrease drivability which is their main concern. With the turbo setup they allow for a drivable turbo app that gives them some extra hp cheaper than building an NA engine. In addition they've made a tunable car for the nuts like us. It's give and take.
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Old 04-04-2006, 02:04 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by 3erdriver
You're missing the point of BMW...they aren't ferrari, they're first and foremost a luxury car maker. When you up the boost you decrease drivability which is their main concern. With the turbo setup they allow for a drivable turbo app that gives them some extra hp cheaper than building an NA engine. In addition they've made a tunable car for the nuts like us. It's give and take.
i dont think either of us is missing the point, i think neither of us wants to agree with the other's point. i am gonna drop this before it turns into an e-war...
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Old 04-04-2006, 03:44 PM   #73
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Old 04-04-2006, 06:27 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by 04ImolaZHP
correct me if i am wrong but the rx7's and supras came out in 1993?!?! we are now in 2007? so it took bmw 14 years to come up with the same amount of hp that the japanese could 14 years ago?

sequential turbos are great but they can also make a lot more power than what the 335 proposes. i am personally rather disappointed with that hp figure? you will probably end up paying $5k more for that 335i vs the 330 and all you will get is a 48 hp bump? i just think that they need to unleash a can of whoop ass and make these engines as powerful as they can be.

and before we start the never ending hp isn't everything debate, i am the first to agree. i am currently in a rental Magnum r/t with the 340 hp and that car has nothing on the 540i. i am just comparing a bmw to a bmw. i mean it took them long enough to make the 550i for crying out loud. make the same thing with these cars. people are not going to stop buying 550's because you can get a 330+ hp engine in a 330i chasis...

/end rant.
This may have already been pointed out, but I didn't read the rest of the responses. This car has to nestle between the 330i and the upcoming M3. I'm sure they could get a lot more horsepower from the engine, but like some said, at what cost to reliability and refinement, and also they aren't trying to compete with the M3 (which is supposed to have a V8 with somewhere just North of 400hp). The 335 will cost a lot less then the M3 is going to, so what would be the logical choice if the 335 could match or almost match the M3s performance.

And think of the aftermarket possibilities for this car by upgrading the turbos and stuff. You now have a car that has the modding capability of all those F/I factory racers from VW, Subaru, put out, but you can maintain the BMW quality.
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:34 PM   #75
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Assuming the 335i engine is as over-engineered as with most well built turbo engines, it wouldn't be very sensible to choose the next M3 over the 335i when turbo and manifold upgrades cost less than the price delta between the 2 models.... if the base hp is 300+, it is completely feasible to see 400+ just by going BPU!
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:52 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Unveiled
Twin turbo RX7's, Supras, etc. made that much power at the flywheel (..although the conservative rating was 276 HP), and still pulled off 13 second 1/4 mile times. What's so weak about that?
impressive for the supra but the rx7 weights nothing
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:57 PM   #77
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honestly...is there a point to making a higher powered 3 series such as this 335...youre paying 40 grand-ish...if you have that dough, you have enough for an e46 m3...looks-wise KILLs any e90.
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:59 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmemMcFly
honestly...is there a point to making a higher powered 3 series such as this 335...youre paying 40 grand-ish...if you have that dough, you have enough for an e46 m3...looks-wise KILLs any e90.
Well i have an e46 and an e90 and i thnk that is opinionated. The e90 has its strong and weak points, so does the e46
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Old 04-05-2006, 12:22 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by TonyluvSilvia
Assuming the 335i engine is as over-engineered as with most well built turbo engines, it wouldn't be very sensible to choose the next M3 over the 335i when turbo and manifold upgrades cost less than the price delta between the 2 models.... if the base hp is 300+, it is completely feasible to see 400+ just by going BPU!
There are a couple things to consider in this. The average consumer isn't going to want to mod their car, mainly because of warranty issues. With an NA engine you can add parts and even change the ECU, and it's gonna be hard for the dealer to prove the parts had an effect on the engine. But when you increase the boost it's really easy to say that's what cause any problems. Plus you're gonna have the issue that the current e46's have now. You can supercharge a 330 and get the same power levels as an m3 but because the M3 revs so much higher it ends up having faster acceleration times because there's more powerband between shifts. Assuming the new e90 m3 v-8 is derived from the current m5/6 v-10 (which has more or less been confirmed), the engine will rev incredibly high (somewhere in the vacinity 8000 rpms). So while it will be easy to get to the e90 M3 power levels, the M3 will still be quicker due to an extra gear (assuming the 7speed SMG) and higher redline. Plus to get M3 handling performance you're gonna have to overhaul the suspension of the 335, and possibly ditch some weight. So it adds up. But all in all the 335 WILL be the incredible tuning platform that we've been waiting years for.
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Old 04-05-2006, 12:30 AM   #80
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i dont think either of us is missing the point, i think neither of us wants to agree with the other's point. i am gonna drop this before it turns into an e-war...
I'm not trying to continue this, I respect you not wanting this to turn into something else. But let me clarify what I'm saying. My "point" is fact, it is the reason why the engine is what it is, it's BMW philosophy (linear power) combined with marketing (they still want to maintain a decent gap between their normal models and their //M models). What you are saying is a valid point about power. I am with you in the want for the engine to be more powerful, I was just stating the reason the engine "only" has 300ish hp.
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