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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 06-07-2006, 06:28 PM   #61
ALPIN3
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Am I the only one who uses steptronic in manual mode at all times? My right hand never leaves the shifter. I used to drive a 5 speed manual...and liked it alot, but once I got comfy with step I liked that as well. Torque converter or clutch...as long as I have some sort of control I'm all good To each thier own...but I hate driving in "D".
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Old 06-07-2006, 06:30 PM   #62
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push that sucka into S and it's sporty auto. I cant have any fun like that. my shifter goes from left to right.
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Old 06-07-2006, 06:39 PM   #63
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I find it fascinating how a thread can go offtopic for 2 whole pages.
Anyways, let me add my .02: We all know what car companies come from Germany, and let me add that over 90% of the cars over here are manuals, so about the exact opposite to the US. In fact, the whole of Europe prefers shifting than cruising. The biggest non-manual faction would actually be Mercedes Benz, since they simply do not offer anything else, at least for the majority of their vehicles.
When doing the driver's license over here, you can do the manual and automatic one, but the auto is limited to auto only, where as the manual can drive both. Also we prefer to "feel" our car and have it more under control by being able to select the gears ourselves. From my experiences in the US they prefer cruising on the broad and straight streets.
The most "auto" we like our sports cars is SMG, but as said the complete manual is still the most preferred.
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Old 06-07-2006, 07:06 PM   #64
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Old 06-07-2006, 07:17 PM   #65
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I'll make sure I put a steptronic tranny in my next track car and take out the manual...
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Old 06-07-2006, 07:24 PM   #66
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while you guys are stuck on the fact of the M being an auto.. im still stuck on the fact of it being a 4 door

maybe i just love 4 doors.. or the fact of a 4dr going that fast..

even tho i want a coupe.. haha :p
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:23 PM   #67
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Reasoning I think the E90 M3 will cost more, the cars have climbed about 10k in price, the SMG option is currently pretty expensive, a well equipped smg M3 right now is like 60k. So figure 5-10k more and you are at 70k. Add in taxes and the other garbage and you are easily at 70k

But I don't really care if I'm wrong, the price doesn't matter so much.


As for manual v. auto - the BMW autos are complete crap in the 3-series. They have really soft set clutch packs and the torque converters are undersized. The cars lose a good second off their 1/4 mile times and suffer from huge acceleration losses. The transmissions don't last as long, and the cars in general do not perform as well, or get as good of fuel economy as their cheaper manual conterparts.

As for the supercar manual v. auto debate.

Most race cars today use a redundant system. For example, WRC cars have an sequential manual transmission system on a manual transmission. Meaning there is the auto clutch actuator, and the auto shifter piece for the manual transmission, so that they can just tap the shifter to shift, but if that system fails, it can be disabled with the movement of a lever and the car is still completely dirveable as a manual.

F1 cars use an SMT system (SMG is BMW's term), as do most other racing series'.

Drag racing is a unique case, and the reason for autos is two fold. The torque converter in a good auto actually multiplies the torque and engine puts out when the car is at a stop or travelling at relatively low speeds. Drag racing transmissions have a brake on them that allows the engine to be revved to a preset RPM (say 4000 RPM's) and the transmission will hold the car from moving until a button is pressed releasing the brake. This works great because it allows the engine to be prerevved, and the torque converter magnifies the torque from its peak giving ground stomping numbers off the line. A manual can't compete with that off the line, and because auto's shift faster there just isn't a chance of the manual winning. Ina stock car however, the manual is almost always faster at the strip because of the nature of the auto used.

SMT's are very interesting transmissions, and I personally classify them in their own category. You don't have to be able to drive a stick shift to drive an SMG, and its marketted as a better auto, which it is, but with all the performance benefits of a manual. With a good shift computer the SMT will smoke any manual on a track and will easily make an auto look bad.

Preference in daily driving, I like to be fully involved. I've never driven an SMG BMW, much less something better, but auto's tend to bore me, even with steptronic the car just isn't as reactive. I think with the direct link of the SMG I would be happy enough with the transmission to own it and drive it while still enjoying the car, but I honestly get bored driving auto's. I feel like I'm not driving anymore but just steering the car.

FWIW - a good manual driver won't have to think about shifting, it just happens. I'm finally starting to get to where daily driving is more subconscious. Traffic isn't as bothersome, and only on days where I'm stuck in stop and go for over an hour do I wish I had an auto (clutch starts to get hot).
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:24 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmatty
A person who needs a shift knob doesn't have enough suspension mods.
Having suspension mods just makes driving the manual that much more fun...trust me, I've got plenty of suspension mods and still love the manual
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:56 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler@UniqueDesign
Having suspension mods just makes driving the manual that much more fun...trust me, I've got plenty of suspension mods and still love the manual
Plenty isn't plenty enough, then.
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Old 06-07-2006, 11:03 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D1AllTrac
just because they can shift for you...does not make them automatic.
Honestly, do you think before you post?
http://m-w.com/dictionary/automatic

And just because it doesn't fit one small criteria, it's a manual? If anything, it's neither. Btw, research those cars, and look at what 'a' word is used to describe the transmission.

Anyways, the manual is better than an auto argument might've been good 10 or 15 years ago, but it's hanging by a thread now, especially with SMGs, and more powerful cars. If you think a 600+ HP car is faster with a manual, then you really have no business posting in this thread. Cars with high horsepower have manuals solely to appease the mindset of people who think they need to be in control of that aspect.

I'm not bagging on people who have manuals...if you want to be in control of that aspect, it's YOUR car, you can do what you want. There is absolutely NO problem with that. But saying that manuals are better for high performance cars? Learn your facts, do you research, then post.
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Old 06-07-2006, 11:35 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmatty
If you think a 600+ HP car is faster with a manual, then you really have no business posting in this thread.
Name 3 cars, not a car converted with a drag tranny, 3 cars off the lot that are faster as an automatic. And just before you post anything SMG's are not automatics! You know what for arguments sake just leave SMG's out of this.

And there is something more than being fast in a straight line, like handling. Automatics suck around a race track(roadcourse) because in general you can't control up/down shifts. Power is on or off right when you say so with a manual, not X of a second later. Less drive train loss with a manual. Manuals are lighter. I can go on and on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmatty
A person who needs a shift knob doesn't have enough suspension mods.
WTF? That doesn't even make sense! I'd love to see you say that to a road racers face.

Last edited by vaio76109; 06-07-2006 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 06-07-2006, 11:44 PM   #72
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Classic.

Since when does a personal opinion become fact for the whole forum?
People get a particular transmission for various personal reasons. I have had one auto BMW (330Ci) and two manuals (ZHP, now M3).
I prefer manual. That's me.

Mods: Please file this thread under

/end crusade to convince others that my opinion is the only opinion that matter and is, in fact, fact.


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Old 06-07-2006, 11:52 PM   #73
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isnt it all personal preference?
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:03 AM   #74
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not personal pref. manual is faster than auto thats fact
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:08 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06
not personal pref. manual is faster than auto thats fact
For cars under a certain power threshold......a manual Veyron would be much, MUCH slower than its automatic counterpart. That's true even for the F430...
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:11 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaio76109
Name 3 cars, not a car converted with a drag tranny, 3 cars off the lot that are faster as an automatic. And just before you post anything SMG's are not automatics! You know what for arguments sake just leave SMG's out of this.

And there is something more than being fast in a straight line, like handling. Automatics suck around a race track(roadcourse) because in general you can't control up/down shifts. Power is on or off right when you say so with a manual, not X of a second later. Less drive train loss with a manual. Manuals are lighter. I can go on and on.


WTF? That doesn't even make sense! I'd love to see you say that to a road racers face.
I'm just doing this for arguments but any three Audis or VWs with the DSG will beat the stick versions, I think manual is far better especially for me but some autos are faster.
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:12 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaio76109
Name 3 cars, not a car converted with a drag tranny, 3 cars off the lot that are faster as an automatic. And just before you post anything SMG's are not automatics! You know what for arguments sake just leave SMG's out of this.
F430
CLK
Veryon

English language says that if the car shifts for you, it's an automatic.

Don't you mean for your argument's sake, leave SMGs out of this?

Quote:
And there is something more than being fast in a straight line, like handling. Automatics suck around a race track(roadcourse) because in general you can't control up/down shifts. Power is on or off right when you say so with a manual, not X of a second later. Less drive train loss with a manual. Manuals are lighter. I can go on and on.
There's very little to no disparity when it comes to handling. You can control up/down shifts, just not on all autos. My car goes when I hit the gas, stops when I hit the brakes. Drivetrain loss is a bit more throughout with autos, but drivetrain loss on a car with real power is MUCH worse with a manual at the shift point. Manuals are slightly lighter, I'll grant you that.


Quote:
WTF? That doesn't even make sense! I'd love to see you say that to a road racers face.
I wouldn't mind. Then I'd explain that I meant in the context of a daily driver, and that you changed the context on your own to fit your weak argument.
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:13 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46m54325ci
I'm just doing this for arguments but any three Audis or VWs with the DSG will beat the stick versions, I think manual is far better especially for me but some autos are faster.
Most cars have less than 400 hp, and that's why the manual will be faster. But I said that under the threshold the manual will be faster, over the threshold the auto will be faster WAY back in this thread.
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:40 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmatty
F430
CLK
Veryon

English language says that if the car shifts for you, it's an automatic.

Don't you mean for your argument's sake, leave SMGs out of this?


There's very little to no disparity when it comes to handling. You can control up/down shifts, just not on all autos. My car goes when I hit the gas, stops when I hit the brakes. Drivetrain loss is a bit more throughout with autos, but drivetrain loss on a car with real power is MUCH worse with a manual at the shift point. Manuals are slightly lighter, I'll grant you that.



I wouldn't mind. Then I'd explain that I meant in the context of a daily driver, and that you changed the context on your own to fit your weak argument.
I said leave SMG type transmissions out of this. But apparently you don't like the listen?

You're taking the word automatic for it's literal meaning. My car has power steering, I don't have to steer!

You obviously know knowing about tracking so just shut up. You don't know what you're talking about. Power is needed on an immediate basis, not 1/2 a second later. It may seem immediate to you, but then again you're retarded.

"Drivetrain loss is a bit more throughout with autos, but drivetrain loss on a car with real power is MUCH worse with a manual at the shift point"
Re-type this in English and maybe I can respond. Power output doesn't have anything to do with how fast a transmission shifts!

I changed the context? You were the one that brought up drag racing, why not speak of road racing?

God damn, **** it. It's obvious this is just too complicated for your thick skull, so good day sir.

Last edited by vaio76109; 06-08-2006 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:43 AM   #80
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I can't continue this thread unless you agree to keep it in English.
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