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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 06-08-2006, 12:56 AM   #81
vaio76109
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I can't continue this thread unless you agree to keep it in English.
Please, don't talk to me about the proper use of English. Afterall, this is an internet forum!
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fulfull
Back to the percentage of non drag race cars who use autos, please englighten me.
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Old 06-08-2006, 07:15 AM   #82
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Back to the percentage of non drag race cars who use autos, please englighten me.
Any 98-02 LS1 powered Camaro or Firebird with the factory automatic 4L60E transmission will run faster than its manual counterpart by nearly 5 tenths at any power level. In fact the Corvette falls under the same pretense, the factory automatic is exceptionally efficient. New torque converters are efficient because of the "lock-up" feature, which will give matched RPM's of engine and trans input shafts. Efficiency lost is only found at wide open throttle applications and the first two gears. By far the ultimate launch set-up is a high stall converter with a transbrake....... No manual will ever touch it.......
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Old 06-08-2006, 08:32 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by sjo328ci
Anyone who buys a BMW with an automatic has no business owning or driving the car in the first place.
wow, i usually like to be a bystander in these types of discussions, but i just can't stand your ignorance and arrogance.
Same, can't stand it either.
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Old 06-08-2006, 10:47 AM   #84
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People get Autos for the same reason we use a remote for the TV, it's easier.

Humans are inherently lazy, and an Auto fulfills that very need. Who wants to exercise their arms while driving? That's way too much work.

I want to sit there and enjoy the scenery (and drink my Mocha Frappacino) without having to constantly change gears.

Besides, don't you think that people who purchase Autos know that Manuals perform better? Yes, they do. But guess what, NOONE CARES.

After an 8 hour work day, the last thing you want to do is sit in traffic with a manual. Unless ofcourse, you really do.

People will continue buying Manuals and Autos, so simmer down...
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:43 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by vaio76109
Back to the percentage of non drag race cars who use autos, please englighten me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBake
Any 98-02 LS1 powered Camaro or Firebird with the factory automatic 4L60E transmission will run faster than its manual counterpart by nearly 5 tenths at any power level. In fact the Corvette falls under the same pretense, the factory automatic is exceptionally efficient. New torque converters are efficient because of the "lock-up" feature, which will give matched RPM's of engine and trans input shafts. Efficiency lost is only found at wide open throttle applications and the first two gears. By far the ultimate launch set-up is a high stall converter with a transbrake....... No manual will ever touch it.......
But good example of a stock auto that's faster than its manual counterpart.
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:45 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBake
Any 98-02 LS1 powered Camaro or Firebird with the factory automatic 4L60E transmission will run faster than its manual counterpart by nearly 5 tenths at any power level. In fact the Corvette falls under the same pretense, the factory automatic is exceptionally efficient. New torque converters are efficient because of the "lock-up" feature, which will give matched RPM's of engine and trans input shafts. Efficiency lost is only found at wide open throttle applications and the first two gears. By far the ultimate launch set-up is a high stall converter with a transbrake....... No manual will ever touch it.......
Its funny that you say this. Because I've seen it argued before, and its true for most drivers I've seen. But on a completely stock car I've seen the manuals launch far better, and with good shifts run faster than the auto. The reason being almost 100% that the launch was better. Corvette's, auto < manual in almost all situations. Drag is a bit different because the IRS tends to get jumpy under really high torque launches, and its more easily controlled with an auto.
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Old 06-08-2006, 12:09 PM   #87
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no i was saying.. isnt it personal preference to buy what a person wants? it shouldnt be this big of a deal to fight over the internet for.. who cares which is faster? thats not what the thread is about

maybe some people just dont wanna go fast.. or maybe they just like to know that the power is there if they want it
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Old 06-08-2006, 06:43 PM   #88
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This is honestly the most rediculous thread I've seen since moving from Audi to BMW and frequenting this site....

JUST BECAUSE A CAR HAS PADDLES ON THE WHEEL AND NO CLUTCH, DOESN'T MAKE IT AN A U T O M A T I C !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Audi/VW/Bugatti's DSG is NOT an Auto...... it's got TWO clutches for pete's sake.
it's the best thing out there. BMW and Ferrari have been trying to get Twin Clutch trannies in it's cars for years.
In the next few years, they will have them.

Man...... why do people talk out thier arse ?????

I an early post, someone also mentioned that " Unless the new SMGIII(7speed) is better than SMGII (6speed), the MT will be faster..."
Just hold your hats....... you're in for a big suprise !!!

kj
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:35 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujo
This is honestly the most rediculous thread I've seen since moving from Audi to BMW and frequenting this site....

JUST BECAUSE A CAR HAS PADDLES ON THE WHEEL AND NO CLUTCH, DOESN'T MAKE IT AN A U T O M A T I C !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Audi/VW/Bugatti's DSG is NOT an Auto...... it's got TWO clutches for pete's sake.
it's the best thing out there. BMW and Ferrari have been trying to get Twin Clutch trannies in it's cars for years.
In the next few years, they will have them.

Man...... why do people talk out thier arse ?????

I an early post, someone also mentioned that " Unless the new SMGIII(7speed) is better than SMGII (6speed), the MT will be faster..."
Just hold your hats....... you're in for a big suprise !!!

kj

I would consider the DSG an automatic, I mean you can move the gear shifter from P to R to D, that's pretty automaticesque to me!!
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:39 PM   #90
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auto=torque converter
clutche(s)=manual

simple...................................whether you have a clutch pedal or not.

I'm not baggin on Auto's here.
They're much better than years past.

Not having a clutch pedal doesn't make a car an Automatic.....

kj
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:22 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujo
auto=torque converter
clutche(s)=manual

simple...................................whether you have a clutch pedal or not.

I'm not baggin on Auto's here.
They're much better than years past.

Not having a clutch pedal doesn't make a car an Automatic.....

kj
As per definition "An automatic transmission is an automobile gearbox that can change gear ratios automatically as the car or truck moves, thus freeing the driver from having to shift gears manually." I have no idea where you guys are coming up that an Automatic transmission is one that has a converter. An automatic transmission is one that shifts on its own without driver input, while a manual requires driver input to perform a shift. It has nothing to do with power transfer and everything to do with how the shift is controlled. An SMG is an automatic transmission plain and simple by defintion. I have a manual transmission that has a 4000 rpm stall converter, I am sure you are wondering how that is possible. It is know as a Manual valve body, it requires the driver to shift the gears, in fact it is a reverse pattern also. A torque converter is a clutch, it just uses a different media to transfer energy from the source to the input shaft.
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Old 06-09-2006, 12:49 PM   #92
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The arguments on this thread about SMG/DSG being AUTOMATIC by definition is just plain silly ( IMHO). WHO REALLY CARES!! The 330 BMW owners who talk about Manual this and Manual that. GUESS WHAT? You don't have a drag car to worry about 5/10ths of second gain on an Automatic when you run your 15 second 1/4 mile times.

SMG/DSG and any new or similar type of electronic Sequential MANUAL Gearbox or the Direct Shift Gearbox will be the preferred choice of MANUAL transmissions as cars evolve. It's not a matter of being lazy; it is more a matter of evolution and efficiency. SMG and DSG is amazing and they will continue to improve on this technology and EVERYONE will get to used to it or have a version of it.

In the end is most of the people that I hear argue about it end up talking about DRAG racing a car that is not a 1/4 mile dream machine. Move on. Let it rest and I know there are better things to talk about then my 5MT or 6MT can beat your AUTO SMG/DSG. BAH. You might like the ROWING action of your "Real" Manual Gearbox but do that for over an hour or two in traffic and talk to me then.

Okay can I have my .02 cents back now?
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:15 PM   #93
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Don't automatics also have clutches? Isn't that how they lock/unlock the planetary grears in the housing?
Will an SMG (or any semi-automatic) shift for you like a Steptronic will if you are in shift mode?
Can you push start an SMG?
If you're driving an SMG and approach a light do you have to downshift to neutral?
Will it stall?
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:28 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff330
Don't automatics also have clutches? Isn't that how they lock/unlock the planetary grears in the housing?
Will an SMG (or any semi-automatic) shift for you like a Steptronic will if you are in shift mode?
Can you push start an SMG?
If you're driving an SMG and approach a light do you have to downshift to neutral?
Will it stall?
The computer will automatically "press" the clutch in as the vehicle comes to a stop. SMG's also have automatic mode and manual mode.

I'm amazed what this thread has turned into...
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:30 PM   #95
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hahaa.. what was the topic again??? it was a possible typo on the writer's part for putting down 6spd auto.. I kinda want more spec info if possible and pics..
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:36 PM   #96
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WTF??? the new M3 wont be any where close to $70K are u crazy, it wouldnt sell if it was. And i think they mean a 6 spd manual, BMW stopped offering auto trannys on M cars in 2000

Yes the new M3 will be right around 70k, are u kidding me that it wouldnt be????
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:39 PM   #97
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so how about this

Automatic:
1. Torque converter
2. no clutch

Types:
1. Automatic
2. Steptronic
3. Tiptronic

Manual(mechanical sense):
1. Clutch
2. No torque converter

types:
1. SMG
2. DSG
3. Good ole 3 pedals (my favorite)

Anybody feel free to add anything i missed. I'm not trying to argue or prove people wrong. That is just how i believe they work.



NOW

on topic this new M3 sedan anybody have any pics besides the ones that were up awhile ago?? official specs sounds like the consensus is price range of around 70K

Last edited by bimmer07; 06-09-2006 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:52 AM   #98
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70K sounds too high....that would be a 20K increase...which would be insane. Yes, a fully loaded E46 M3 Cab comes in at like 60-something, but that just means that the fully loaded E92 M3 comes in at 80-something...which is the price of an M5. No way that's happening.
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:30 PM   #99
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I don't know where they get off thinkin it will cost that much, I would almost bet the starting price is right around $54,900 for the coupe version
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Old 06-12-2006, 12:42 PM   #100
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I don't know where they get off thinkin it will cost that much, I would almost bet the starting price is right around $54,900 for the coupe version
Still about an 8-10k hike. Figure you'll add xenon's, leather seats, sunroof, you know, normal stuff, and its up another 3or 4 k to about 60k. Performance package etc. and 70k sticker is easy to see without topping out the options. Unlike most manufacturers, BMW doesn't sell a lot of "base" models, they have a ton of options and just pass the cost of making the car nicer on to the customer that way.
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