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Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:17 PM   #41
crazy1323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickG View Post
That's completely untrue. If both compressor sections have the same efficiency at the same boost level, then both will heat up the air the same. Don't forget that centrifugal superchargers are merely belt-driven turbo compressors.
Belt driven is KEY there. The belt on all engine is located at the front of the engine. This means that a supercharger is out of the way of the exhaust path and has a good source of cold air flow.

Now look where a turbo is, RIGHT ON THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD, which reaches temps arround 1300 degrees with little to no airflow. I have a very very powerful turbo car, stage 4 Porsche TT, and on a dyno run if you turn the lights off you can see the turbos glowing red hot. I would love to see a supercharger do that. I also have a '71 charger with a weiand 8-71 blower sticking out the hood, after passes it is still cool enough to touch. So a turbo's intake temp will be much hotter witht the same boost pressure and same aftercooler.
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by NickG View Post
That's completely untrue. If both compressor sections have the same efficiency at the same boost level, then both will heat up the air the same. Don't forget that centrifugal superchargers are merely belt-driven turbo compressors.
Wrong...The turbo will create more heat alot quicker as full boost will be achieved well before redline...Let alone the turbo will be much harder on the car all together than a centri SC.
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:24 PM   #43
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azevedo motorsports actually has teh first boosted s54 , stuffed in a wide body e30 m3 ..at 10 lbs makes mid 500's to the wheels .running aem ecu and converted to throttle cable ,
Not the first...there is a turbo in Greece that is pushing in the 700whp range and already has posted a video racing an R1 bike...and destroying it..
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Old 08-24-2006, 10:49 PM   #44
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Not the first...there is a turbo in Greece that is pushing in the 700whp range and already has posted a video racing an R1 bike...and destroying it..
where can this vid be found?
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Old 08-25-2006, 02:15 AM   #45
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I'm still impressed by the twin turbo 3002 that was in the roundel.

That car would have been fun to work on for sure
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Old 08-25-2006, 08:00 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by crazy1323 View Post
Belt driven is KEY there. The belt on all engine is located at the front of the engine. This means that a supercharger is out of the way of the exhaust path and has a good source of cold air flow.

Now look where a turbo is, RIGHT ON THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD, which reaches temps arround 1300 degrees with little to no airflow. I have a very very powerful turbo car, stage 4 Porsche TT, and on a dyno run if you turn the lights off you can see the turbos glowing red hot. I would love to see a supercharger do that.
You're assuming that the proximity of the exhaust, and its related heat, is automatically transferred to the induction/cold side. Well it's not. The turbine housing does get hot, very hot. But between the turbine housing and compressor housing is the bearing housing. The bearing housing is cooled by oil, and often times water too. So VERY LITTLE of that exhaust heat makes it over to the compressor. Whatever does is insignificant (ie, maybe a couple of degrees increase in air temps).

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy1323
I also have a '71 charger with a weiand 8-71 blower sticking out the hood, after passes it is still cool enough to touch. So a turbo's intake temp will be much hotter witht the same boost pressure and same aftercooler.
Our S52 Stage3 car pushes 18psi. I have datalogs from the dyno sessions that show with 90 degF ambient temps, the charge temps are ~115 degF in the intake manifold during WOT/full boost. How does that compare with your 8-71 blower's charge temps??

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCswedishM3
Wrong...The turbo will create more heat alot quicker as full boost will be achieved well before redline.
Well, technically yeah. The turbo will create hotter air charge temps cause it'll be pressurizing the air 5-8psi in the midrange, while the centrifugal is only doing 1-2psi. You got me there....but I'd rather have the added midrange torque that the turbo provides over the centrifugal SC

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Originally Posted by OCswedishM3
...Let alone the turbo will be much harder on the car all together than a centri SC.
That's the arguement used by vendors who want to push a centrifugal SC over a turbo. I can claim that the centifugal SC puts more wear and tear on an engine than a turbo, since it's constantly being driven by the crankshaft (a turbo draws no additional energy from the engine). And depending on the belt's installation method, may be adding a constant side load to the front of the crank, further increasing the failure rate.
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Old 08-25-2006, 01:43 PM   #47
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I thought the turbo took a far more higher toll on the engine without a doubt because of the enormous stress exerted on the engine block,the crank etc because of high boost levels,which brings us to the knocking question.Therefore engine compression must be somehow lowered i guess,to reduce it.The inline 6 cylinder is somewhat limited to a peak compression,but i can see the turbo as the only replacement for displacement on the BMW 6 cylinder.The advantage of the turbo is its immense torque which the supercharger can not even come close to at same boost levels.Hence the new 300hp 335i has some 40lbs more torque than an M3 though its 33hp less,allowing to hit 0-60 at exactly the same time and killing the M3 70-130 in top gear.We`re not concerned with cornering abilities for the time being as it is the least of our interest on a Highway dewel!!!!Heheheh.
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Old 08-25-2006, 03:14 PM   #48
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Nick, i dont have an intake charge temps currently. I was mearly stating that after hard pulls, the turbos can glow red but supercharger is still cool to the touch. I know i would not want to touch my turbo after a hard pull which makes me believe that the intake charke is also hotter. Also, what kind of turbo are you running on the stage three with what kind of intercooler, any injection or spray bar? Those temps seem really low considereing only the airflow from a fan on a dyno.
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Old 08-25-2006, 03:59 PM   #49
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Mert,Mert,Mert where the heck are you,hurry up geeza we don`t get paid by the hour.
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Old 08-25-2006, 07:20 PM   #50
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Not the first...there is a turbo in Greece that is pushing in the 700whp range and already has posted a video racing an R1 bike...and destroying it..
oc , i just saw that car you speak of in athens last month while i was over there , its actually a 316 shell and they stuffed the s54 in it , witha autronic standalone. with the juice that car is less powerfull then azevedos car .
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Old 08-25-2006, 07:24 PM   #51
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Nick G , good to see you over here shedding your wisdom bro.
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Old 08-28-2006, 07:37 AM   #52
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Nick, i dont have an intake charge temps currently. I was mearly stating that after hard pulls, the turbos can glow red but supercharger is still cool to the touch. I know i would not want to touch my turbo after a hard pull which makes me believe that the intake charke is also hotter.
You have to realize that it's not the entire turbo that's glowing red. It's ONLY the turbine housing. The compressor housing is made of aluminum and can't get that hot (otherwise it would melt).

Quote:
Also, what kind of turbo are you running on the stage three with what kind of intercooler, any injection or spray bar? Those temps seem really low considereing only the airflow from a fan on a dyno.
The car in question was running a GT35R turbocharger with a .50 A/R T04E compressor housing. The intercooler was our standard Stage1/2 unit (20x9x3 tube and fin core), with a mid-size fan on the dyno. No type of spray was used on the intercooler during the dyno pulls. Air temp logs done on the street showed similar results.
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Old 08-28-2006, 07:38 AM   #53
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Nick G , good to see you over here shedding your wisdom bro.
Thank you sir
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Old 08-30-2006, 08:46 PM   #54
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Thank you sir

Now when you going to do an e46 kit? I've got my car waiting and it can be at George's in a heart beat!
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Old 08-31-2006, 07:50 AM   #55
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Now when you going to do an e46 kit? I've got my car waiting and it can be at George's in a heart beat!
Your comment has been noted
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Old 08-31-2006, 02:45 PM   #56
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where can this vid be found?
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=382989
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Old 09-01-2006, 12:03 AM   #57
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DA-Motorsports my ass i say,full of cr............ap and the crap is right here in E46 fanatics.
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Old 09-02-2006, 01:43 PM   #58
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Any updates ?
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Old 09-02-2006, 02:02 PM   #59
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need dyno vids pronto
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Old 09-03-2006, 11:04 PM   #60
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Interested ins eeing where this goes!
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