E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke

Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
Sponsored by Active Autowerke

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 09-13-2006, 08:01 AM   #41
Hollywood619
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 253
My Ride: 2005 330i ZHP
You guys have some great insights. I just hope that when I return to the States and get a 335i sedan that someone like AA has developed a "starter" kit with an intake, exhaust and ECU tuning adding 3-5lbs more boost coming in around 375FHP (judging by prelim dynos that say BMW underrated this motor) for maybe $1300-1500. If we could get other companies to move this quickly (unlike Quaife who STILL don't have an E46 LSD) we would all be set. Keep up the great work AA!
Hollywood619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 09:34 AM   #42
TxZHP04
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DFW
Posts: 5,728
My Ride: ESS TS2+ ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood619 View Post
unlike Quaife who STILL don't have an E46 LSD
IIRC, Quaife has stated that they have no interest in producing an E46 LSD. Hope you're not still waiting for it to happen.
TxZHP04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 10:25 AM   #43
Hollywood619
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 253
My Ride: 2005 330i ZHP
Nah, not waiting. Seems funny they pump them out for Civics, but not BMW. LOSERS!!
Hollywood619 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 06:00 PM   #44
crazy1323
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Memphis
Posts: 873
My Ride: '02 330Ci
Send a message via AIM to crazy1323
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
From what I heard...for what its worth... while tuning for the 335i may yield big end-game numbers, actual performance benefits may be slightly less than desirable. From what I'm told, the small turbos are flooded with a super-rich fuel mixture upon mashing down on the pedal. This extremely rich mixture is then ignited and kickstarts the smallish turbos and results in that nonexistent lag everyone talks about.

From the people I've spoken to, they've all said that software will likely increase numbers but it will be very hard to maintain that fuel algorithm so you may end up with 50 more hp with a simple software reflash but you may end up losing that lagless performance. And, to be hoenst, if that is the case, I'll skip the 50 horses and keep the instant on power! Now, as for adding larger turbos to the equation, aside from being expensive and requiring actual cutting and welding, this may again yield huge horsepower increases at peak but the car will ultimately be plauged by the same turbo-lag BMW engineers obviously hate (myself included).

So in the end, understand that regardless of a company's ability to chip the most advance software, the 335i may not be the kind of car you want to put software in. Trust me, I had my MS45.1 system tuned by AA a few weeks ago. I'm just as much of a fan of theirs as anyone else. But simply saying, oh well if they can do an E60 they can do an E92 is silly. Its far more complex than actually cracking the code. Once its cracked, you need to be able to deliver desirable performance. Not just performance. And, from the sources I've spoken to, they've all expressed intense skepticism on the 335i's reseptiveness to software due to its unique turbo management.
I hoghly doubt that BMW would use a rich enough mixture to ignite on the turbos. This is what rally cars do, they actually fire the injectors twice. When the unburned fuel hits the red hot exhaust turbine it keeps the RPM's of the shaft up.
The problem with this is that it completely kills the life of the turbo. That is why i do not think BMW will do this on the 335i.
__________________
'02 330Ci
A Bimmer, a Porsche, and an old Dodge, I am too lazy to list and update.
crazy1323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2006, 06:48 PM   #45
Nico3k
The R1 makes it fun
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,453
My Ride: Yamaha R1 + 325i
For anyone who was mentioning swapping the E92 ECU as management for FI E46's... you have NO idea what you are talking about. BMW redesigned almost everything from the ground up including the software and doing something like that is almost impossible. The complexity of programming/editing both new and old gen bosch/siemens software is not fun... ask anyone who tunes (probably only like 4 people on this whole forum).
__________________
Nico3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 12:23 AM   #46
GodSendsDeath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Clear Water
Posts: 661
My Ride: 2008 350z 6-speed!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico3k View Post
For anyone who was mentioning swapping the E92 ECU as management for FI E46's... you have NO idea what you are talking about. BMW redesigned almost everything from the ground up including the software and doing something like that is almost impossible. The complexity of programming/editing both new and old gen bosch/siemens software is not fun... ask anyone who tunes (probably only like 4 people on this whole forum).
Iam not sure why any one would do that. I think that the E92 ecu might be better than the e46 because it is made for a turbo car. Than again i dont work with that but just a comon sense thought.
GodSendsDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 03:46 PM   #47
Omar@ActiveAutowerke
Past Site Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Miami
Posts: 653
My Ride: Prototype BMW's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood619 View Post
You guys have some great insights. I just hope that when I return to the States and get a 335i sedan that someone like AA has developed a "starter" kit with an intake, exhaust and ECU tuning adding 3-5lbs more boost coming in around 375FHP (judging by prelim dynos that say BMW underrated this motor) for maybe $1300-1500. If we could get other companies to move this quickly (unlike Quaife who STILL don't have an E46 LSD) we would all be set. Keep up the great work AA!
Trust me its coming...

FYI.. We can get you guys a LSD for E46... The price is up there though..
Omar@ActiveAutowerke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2006, 08:17 PM   #48
leew
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 19
My Ride: 04' 330ci
[QUOTE=JCz04Bimmer;4853651]From what I heard...for what its worth... while tuning for the 335i may yield big end-game numbers, actual performance benefits may be slightly less than desirable. From what I'm told, the small turbos are flooded with a super-rich fuel mixture upon mashing down on the pedal. This extremely rich mixture is then ignited and kickstarts the smallish turbos and results in that nonexistent lag everyone talks about.

From the people I've spoken to, they've all said that software will likely increase numbers but it will be very hard to maintain that fuel algorithm so you may end up with 50 more hp with a simple software reflash but you may end up losing that lagless performance. And, to be hoenst, if that is the case, I'll skip the 50 horses and keep the instant on power! Now, as for adding larger turbos to the equation, aside from being expensive and requiring actual cutting and welding, this may again yield huge horsepower increases at peak but the car will ultimately be plauged by the same turbo-lag BMW engineers obviously hate (myself included).

So in the end, understand that regardless of a company's ability to chip the most advance software, the 335i may not be the kind of car you want to put software in.QUOTE]

All the turbo ever sees is exhaust.

Don't listen to those people. Lag is created when the compressor is building boost. The larger the wheel the longer the lag. The turbo is the same size in this scenario which means no change in the lag.

What this does mean though is that the turbo falls on its face earlier in the rpm's because a smaller compressor in diameter isn't going to create the power as long as a bigger compressor. This is where the tuning comes into play. creating power after the turbos are out of their range using timing and fuel with added boost. YOu could put 20psi what's that 1.3 bar???, but it isn't going to perform like 20 psi would at 3k rpm. So I'm certain spikes in the upper teens will be seen with the tuning.

With the small turbos running I would imagine very close to their max efficiency they will get very hot creating a shortened lifespan, only way to extend their inevitable death is to cool them down via turbo timer. That's why many go with a larger turbo to create more power running the turbos efficiently, sure it creates lag but it also creates more hp which is the dynoqueens plan.

next person please fix the quotes for me.

Last edited by leew; 09-21-2006 at 08:19 PM.
leew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2006, 04:44 PM   #49
clean-m-tech330
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 1,024
My Ride: Technik 330ci ZHP
Send a message via AIM to clean-m-tech330
^

LOL, well said though. I know software will yield nice gains, however drivability is what really needs to be considered here. I have to agree with you, however I can only hope that people are smart enough to develop software that keeps the turbo lag to a minimum, if even present, and still be able to create some decent power gains.
__________________
'00 Honda Civic Si- B18c5 210whp- Sold-
'05 BMW 330Ci ZHP- Technik's ZHP - Sold
'06 Acura RSX-S- Sold
'07 Subaru Satin White Pearl STI - Garage Queen
'11 Honda Civic Si Sedan - Daily
clean-m-tech330 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2006, 05:19 PM   #50
JCz04Bimmer
Registered User
 
JCz04Bimmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,369
My Ride: 2004 330Ci & 06 Z4MC
Send a message via AIM to JCz04Bimmer
I must admit, I don't know much about turbos and obviously you all do. But I think the person I was talking to was refering not to a super-rich mixture in the turbo but rather that the engine gets a rich mixture when you mash down on the pedal. The person I spoke to was expressing hesitation with regards to tuning this engine to the extreme level people are saying. As its been said, drivability is key. And that means maintaining that BMW-cherished tradition of flat torque curves. You can make any engine more powerful but the trick is getting it to feel right. This is why I am waiting to feel how the new Twin Screw S/C setups work out. Obviously, that's not an option on the 335i but it does represent a way to add significant power will completely preserving the essence of the BMW's power which is consistent, constant, and smooth power.
__________________

JCz04Bimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2006, 11:13 PM   #51
leew
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 19
My Ride: 04' 330ci
I would sure love to see GIAC or even APR switch over to BMW as well, if the factory turbo setup is a hit. They have created and are always improving the software for audi, porshe, vw. All I can say is I would imagine BMW is planning on an aftermarket rush when more and more owners feel the need to mod, only because it seems like only a select few actually understand how the FI engine works. I can see it now DINAN downpipes 2k, full exhaust 2k, I just hope when I get mine I would pray that others are tech savy like myself and begin to make their own downpipes and exhaust for what maybe $500 if you do it right.
leew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use