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Old 09-25-2006, 02:57 PM   #1
gwatson
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Twin Screw - Stupid Question

Speaking to ESS they say "Fuel consumption remains almost identical to stock and engine longevity is not a problem at all"

But if the engine produces full boost at 2000rpm then it must drink the fuel? That's what attracted me to the TX2, it generates such little boost when cruising in 6th that folk are getting upto 400 miles out of tank. I guess boost on this system is more to do with throttle than rpm?

I know it's hard to comment since no one has a TS1 yet, but can anyone explain the theory at least. I don't want to receive the kit in 6 weeks and get 180 miles out of a tank

Graeme
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Old 09-25-2006, 03:12 PM   #2
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A TS only makes boost when you ask for it, same as a properly designed centrifugal. Under idle and cruising conditions (90% of the time) the TS's butterfly bypass is open and there is little work being done in the compressor itself. Therefore, for most driving, your fuel consumption will change very little. If you get on it all the time, as you will anyway, your mileage will of course suffer. It takes fuel to make power. The TS does require more work to turn than a centrifugal, but it is a incredibly small amount more. You just have full boost available at 2k+ with a TS instead of only at redline with a centrifugal.

Don't be mislead by reading on the Internet that a TS takes a lot more energy (aka parasitic loss) to turn than a centrifugal because it has internal compression. In reality, both a TS and centrifugal internally compress the charge. However, the TS is near lossless when it comes to airflow and compression done, therefore more efficent when properly constructed, sized, and spun at the right speeds.
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Old 09-25-2006, 03:29 PM   #3
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Thanks for explaining that. Since it generates full boost at 2000rpm in real life it should be quicker through the revs than say a TX2 even though the bhp is less, would that be right?

Out of interest what sort of noise does the TS make? Similar to the TX2? Can you hear a turbo like woooooooshhh? Or is it pretty quiet.

Also what happens to the Z4 3.0 sound generator?

G
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Old 09-25-2006, 03:33 PM   #4
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since we're doing stupid questions in this thread:

is this bypass valve silent or does it have a "pssshh" sound like those on the infinitas SK1?

also, can this compressor be serviced/rebuilt or do i have to get a new one should the compressor develop a fault outside of your warranty period?

how long does it take you to programme the DME and how long does it take for it to get shipped back to international buyers?

thanks ESS.
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Old 09-25-2006, 03:47 PM   #5
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Thanks for explaining that. Since it generates full boost at 2000rpm in real life it should be quicker through the revs than say a TX2 even though the bhp is less, would that be right?

Out of interest what sort of noise does the TS make? Similar to the TX2? Can you hear a turbo like woooooooshhh? Or is it pretty quiet.

Also what happens to the Z4 3.0 sound generator?

G
It will rev quicker as it makes more torque throughout the entire power band over a TX2.

The TS is hard to put into words, it rumbles like a V8 is the best description. The bypass is a vacuum-operated CNC butterfly valve as a standard spring diaphragm valve will not work optimally on a TS system. The opening and release of boost is audible but does not vent to atmopshere like a BOV will.

The 3.0 Z4 sound generator is removed for TS installation and replaced with the components of the 2.5 Z4.

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Originally Posted by zulu4 View Post
since we're doing stupid questions in this thread:

is this bypass valve silent or does it have a "pssshh" sound like those on the infinitas SK1?

also, can this compressor be serviced/rebuilt or do i have to get a new one should the compressor develop a fault outside of your warranty period?

how long does it take you to programme the DME and how long does it take for it to get shipped back to international buyers?

thanks ESS.
Bypass valve question answered above.

The chances of failure are slim, but compressor services will be handled through us and Lysholm even after the warranty period.

The DME can be sent to whichever location is closer to the customer, US or Norway. It is normally 24 hours here from receiving the DME to returning it to you. Shipping methods chosen in both directions have more impact on downtime.
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Old 09-25-2006, 03:55 PM   #6
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Thanks again for answering out questions. I don't want an loud car (already sold my sports exhaust)... but a wooooosh would be nice with a V8 rumble, sounds amazing.

G
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Old 09-25-2006, 03:59 PM   #7
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thanks ESS.

looking forward to your final dyno figures for the 2.5L M54 with MS45.1 DME

Last edited by zulu4; 09-25-2006 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:31 PM   #8
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ESS,

Just re-read what you said...is the TS silent when not on boost then or not, it just says how the bypass works, not what it results in.

G
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:38 PM   #9
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ESS,

Just re-read what you said...is the TS silent when not on boost then or not, it just says how the bypass works, not what it results in.

G
When cruising, it is nearly silent. With the windows up, you won't hear it. When you get on it, it thunders like you would hear from say, the E39 M5. I will try to get a driving video for you.
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:57 PM   #10
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That would be fantastic... look forward to the. I have a Z4, so it will be silent with the roof and windows up

G
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Old 09-26-2006, 02:07 AM   #11
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Last question then.... when % of throttle open does the bypass valve open\shut?
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:25 AM   #12
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Depends on load/rpm. When you go from boost to off-throttle, it will open under manifold vacuum. Basically, it will close under boost and stay open all the other times.
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Old 09-26-2006, 02:21 PM   #13
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Glad to see ESS answering all the important questions for their customers.........

I have one : Will i be able to use my boost gauge (mechanical type) with the TS?

Thanks
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:19 PM   #14
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As ESS said, if you stay out of boost you will get almost identical mpg as stock. But in reality, who is going to do this? Who wouldn't floor it every once in a while? You avg. mpg will surely go down.
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:19 PM   #15
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Depends on load/rpm. When you go from boost to off-throttle, it will open under manifold vacuum. Basically, it will close under boost and stay open all the other times.
The GM 3800 stock supercharged engine has a similar set up to the TS1: non-intercooled Eaton twin helix lobe blower, 6.5 psi max. boost, bypass valve between blower exhaust and intake. Parasitic losses on this (larger/heavier) blower are only 1-2 mpg off-boost. The stock bypass valve on this engine opens at about 3/4 throttle. This produces good overall fuel economy, but isolates all the performance boost to moderately hard acceleration. Is this what you mean by "depends on load/rpm"?
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:27 PM   #16
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How about at idle, is it silent or does it whine like the vortech unit did?
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:45 PM   #17
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If your mpg after a s/c kit install is important to you, then maybe you shouldn't add a s/c to your car- increasing performance on a super charger's level will naturally effect your mpg, maybe some people should go and buy toyota rava 4's " I want my mpg "
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Old 09-26-2006, 04:31 PM   #18
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"How about at idle, is it silent or does it whine like the vortech unit did?"

As long as it doesn't wine like a Mini Cooper S roots supercharger then that's ok. Couldn't live with that!
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Old 09-26-2006, 05:33 PM   #19
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"How about at idle, is it silent or does it whine like the vortech unit did?"

As long as it doesn't wine like a Mini Cooper S roots supercharger then that's ok. Couldn't live with that!
There are two things in a Twin Screw that make noise. Gears and the expanding air as it leaves the compressor. The screws themselves never touch the case or each other, thousands of an inch close, but no contact. The gears are helical cut and constantly oiled, normal engine operation is louder. The TS exhaust port was custom-designed by Lysholm for us to tune the exhaust pop to a low rumble on the I6. Even the intermanifold is designed to control noise as well as cooling and airflow. We wanted it to be virtually silent until our customers felt like letting people know by simply pressing the accelerator.
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Old 09-26-2006, 06:15 PM   #20
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Do you have any video/sound clip comparisons?
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