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Old 01-28-2007, 06:48 PM   #1
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zhp susp setting research

prompted by jpr, he has been searching concrete evidence also, and for quite a while, im searching out any truths to be had about the "ZHP" suspension setting being different than that of other "I" and "CI" models. the "XI" model excluded because i feel everybody already realizes the awd system demands completely different settings from a traditional rwd car. anybody having good, hard evidence pertaining to either side of the fence, please post relevant links, along with a brief description of what the link states. some of us are dialup, and some pages take forever. facts already found by jpr, the components are the same. im only interested in measurement differences. all help is welcomed. thanks!
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:01 PM   #2
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heres a bit from another board:http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=13

this states there are different components between the performance package and the sport package. part numbers included.
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:04 PM   #3
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http://www.bimmerfest.com/wiki/index...rmance_Package

explains the zhp settings.

still searching
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinj3x View Post
prompted by jpr, he has been searching concrete evidence also, and for quite a while, im searching out any truths to be had about the "ZHP" suspension setting being different than that of other "I" and "CI" models. the "XI" model excluded because i feel everybody already realizes the awd system demands completely different settings from a traditional rwd car. anybody having good, hard evidence pertaining to either side of the fence, please post relevant links, along with a brief description of what the link states. some of us are dialup, and some pages take forever. facts already found by jpr, the components are the same. im only interested in measurement differences. all help is welcomed. thanks!
I am a little confused by what you mean by setting? Are you talking about ride height, alignment specs?

I have been running the full ZHP suspension springs shocks sways for well over a year.

While they are 15mm lower then the sport suspension on a 330, my car rides slightly higher then the ZHP due to the weight difference in the cars.

I havent directly matched next to a sport suspension car but I would say I may be 10mm lower then the sport suspension. I know I am a tiny bit lower then I was before with the sport suspension on but not quite as low as when I had the Eibach ProKits.
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:33 PM   #5
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yes, im refering to the alignment specifications. ive figured out the sways are the only shared parts, the rest of the components are different. im trying to figure out the factory alignment differences between the zhp and non-zhp cars.
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:35 PM   #6
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Let me put it this way - who can find an official document that lists the specific alignment settings for the ZHP?

All of the above links just reference some marketing BS.

And while you're at it, see if you can find the spec ride height for the ZHP.
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:35 PM   #7
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yes, im refering to the alignment specifications. ive figured out the sways are the only shared parts, the rest of the components are different. im trying to figure out the factory alignment differences between the zhp and non-zhp cars.
Here's a hint - springs are also the same, dampers are different
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpr View Post
Let me put it this way - who can find an official document that lists the specific alignment settings for the ZHP?
this is what im looking for fellas.

btw jpr, if what im finding is purely marketing bs, than the things im reading that state otherwise must be contra-marketing bs. so far, as you already know, im finding nothing that supports either side of this argument, just a bunch of things that repeat said "bs", and those saying "ahh, thats bs". tomorrow, i will call the bmw tech that i use and ask for his assistance. perhaps he can lend a little assistance. can you help out a little and give me a few links that youve found that pertain to this matter. just so i can compare to my searches. thanks.

still searching..
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:14 PM   #9
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Here's a hint - springs are also the same, dampers are different
Where did you see that?

I will see if I can find the pictures, no idea where I have them, but I had the ZHP springs next to the SP springs and they had different markings and were also slightly shorter (barely visable though but for 30mm you wouldnt see a huge difference)

As for the shocks and struts I cant confirm whether they were indeed stiffer, they feel stiffer, said Mtech on it and had a different part number, but I have no way of actually testing the difference.

All I know is driving the same car with different suspensions I could tell the difference. Not a huge difference but just enough more then the Sport.
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:33 PM   #10
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http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...age-page2.html

okay, not "official" numbers, but C&D report handling differences between the zhp and the 330i. wouldnt this lead you to believe certain changes in settings were made? yes, it states the 10mm wider rear tires and stiffer springs, but that will get you only so far without changing alignment to take advantage of said changes.

ss..

could someone watch this and report if its relevant? its a clip of a e46 zhp on C&D tv. im on dialup, it would take me a month to watch this. thanks http://www.linquist.net/webfiles/?ty...fn=CD_BMW330Ci

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Old 01-28-2007, 09:03 PM   #11
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The car and driver link is just parrotting the BMW marketing materials they were given

As for the springs - here's where to start reading - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=397880

As for alignment settings, I think some of yo are missing the point. You can find officially documented alignment settings for the standard suspension, for the sport suspension, for the rough road suspension, for the AWD suspension, and the M3. You cannot find the same sort of officially documented alignment settings for the ZHP.
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Old 01-28-2007, 09:15 PM   #12
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okay, clarify "official". if it came from bmw, isnt that "official". i cant find any independent research on this, so basicly all i can go on is the marketing campain. the zhp is reported to have an increased negative camber all around, and nothing to prove otherwise. i guess its just a matter of whom you believe.

so, i call stalemate.

but, im ss..

and thanks for checking the link for me
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:30 AM   #13
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Agree that "official" is a bit muddled term. Mainly what I'm looking for is something that isn't homemade or has to be inferred by tweaks to a known alignment settings.

But "stalemate"? I think not, and I'd hate to think you'd be throwing in the towel after less than three hours. By the terms of the search, it the burden of those who believe in a separate ZHP alignment to prove it exists.

Here's the logic -
BMW is a large worldwide organization that needs to maintain product and service consistency throughout its domain. It does this by documenting all its repair procedures and technical data such as the alignment settings. For example, attached are the alignment settings for the standard base suspension.

Each alignment configuration will have its own data sheet. BMW does not have its techs align the cars by saying, "use the base alignment, but subract this from that, that from this, etc.". Hence, you can find stand alone alignment data sheets which show the alignment settings for the sport suspension, the rough road suspension, the AWD suspension, and the M3.

Additionally, the alignment information is either given or licensed to the manufacturers of alignment machines (and to the operators of independent alignment shops). All the modern alignment machines have a computer interface and database of vehicles. The operator puts in the year, make, model, etc of the subject vehicle and the alignment criteria (and on some machines the instructions) pops up on the screen.

So if there were a separate ZHP alignment setting it would be clearly and independently documented. Furthermore, it would be pretty widely distributed with some 340 or so dealers in the US alone, and at least that many (and probably more) independently operating alignment machines.

Any document as widely distributed as that is virtually guaranteed to be available somewhere. So search the various BMW forums, google it, download and check the TIS, ask your BMW dealer, or find a printed out alignment report from a ZHP. If there is ZHP alignment setting, you will find it.

If you cannot find one, then the only logical conclusion is that it does not exist.


And BTW - yes, there are significant handling differences between ZHP and ZSP, but that is a consequence of stiffer shocks and a quicker steering rack. Springs, sways, and ride height are all the same.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf E46 Standard Alignment.pdf (22.7 KB, 551 views)
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:43 AM   #14
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General Ride Level Height

Ride level in normal position (attach tape measure to rim flange at bottom middle and measure to special tool)



Deviation from nominal value for all wheels together max 10 mm

Front

Standard Suspension


15" rim 576 10 mm

16" rim 589 10 mm

17" rim 604 10 mm

18" rim 617 10 mm

Low-Slung Sports Suspension


15" rim 561 10 mm

16" rim 574 10 mm

17" rim 589 10 mm

18" rim 602 10 mm

Rough Road Packagen


15" rim 593 10 mm

16" rim 606 10 mm

17" rim 621 10 mm

18" rim 634 10 mm

Rear

Standard Suspension


15" rim 542 10 mm

16" rim 555 10 mm

17" rim 570 10 mm

18" rim 583 10 mm

Low-Slung Sports Suspension


15" rim 526 10 mm

16" rim 539 10 mm

17" rim 554 10 mm

18" rim 567 10 mm

Rough Road Packagen


15" rim 562 10 mm

16" rim 575 10 mm

17" rim 590 10 mm

18" rim 603 10 mm
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:45 AM   #15
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The factory alignmnet aprroved machines (ie Biesbarth we import the spec from BMW direct into the computer or did while I was at the dealer, we did not relay on the aftermarket specs as we found those to be incorrect.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:52 AM   #16
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Can't help but notice nothing on there says "ZHP Suspension"
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:57 AM   #17
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DIdn't say it did all you asked for was ride height which I provided. Send me your email I will send you the TIS file on alignmnet specs I don;t have time to go trhough and compare any differances, plus I tweak my setting based on customers desiered results for their car.
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Old 01-29-2007, 09:12 AM   #18
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DIdn't say it did all you asked for was ride height which I provided. Send me your email I will send you the TIS file on alignmnet specs I don;t have time to go trhough and compare any differances, plus I tweak my setting based on customers desiered results for their car.
No worries Seth, I wasn't critiquing, just commenting that the info you posted supports my contention.

Thanks for the offer, but I've already got the TIS files (albeit not the latest version). Additionally, I don't mean to imply that the factory alignment specs are the best settings, only that they are the "official" settings. And if the ZHP settings are officially different in either alignment or ride height, it would be documented.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Agree that "official" is a bit muddled term. Mainly what I'm looking for is something that isn't homemade
...shortened...
yes, there are significant handling differences between ZHP and ZSP, but that is a consequence of stiffer shocks and a quicker steering rack. Springs, sways, and ride height are all the same.
lol. first, stalemate was for lastnight only. i thought for sure i could find Something in threee hours. im back searching now. i have noticed you have given exhaustive searches as well.

good point about the documentation being readily available, but cant be found, leading to only one logical conclusion. (i see footprints that im walking in here..)

ive called my tech and left a message. you know how busy they are, no return phone call yet. can you tell me where you have found some information, so i can include/disclude it in my search?

thanks.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:54 PM   #20
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Well I've looked (and posted) in pretty much every forum I can find, spent lots of google time, have a 12/2000 version of the TIS, and a Bentley Manual. But there's lots of hidey holes in the internet and I'm sure I haven't looked in the all.
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