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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 05-07-2007, 10:23 PM   #21
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How is it far fetched?? These are very sensitive bus's signal receiving alot of information per sec. They are tested against out side sources for interference. Internal interference from the car is another issue If one of these signals gets interrupted for a nano sec the computer trips a code, It relatively simple!!Tthere are evan warnings on the upper left side of the windshield about it(I know you all removed them). then you cry Moss magnuson BS. You can try that all you want, you will lose in this case!! The dealer gave you a chance to make it right be grateful they didn't turn it over to BMW, Get it fixed and be happy!!
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Old 05-07-2007, 10:44 PM   #22
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go to another dealer and try again
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Old 05-07-2007, 11:01 PM   #23
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As far as your stereo equipment, you can always put in your OEM head unit and get a good installer to connect everything to that. I run a pretty good set up off my OEM unit, mainly because I don't want to have some young kid put my window through to try and steal my shiny new head unit... But back to the point, it still sounds good
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Old 05-07-2007, 11:20 PM   #24
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i have a factory head unit in there. I got the signals for the amp off of the stock amp wiring harness.

So theres NO WAY to have a ICE setup and have no tranny problems? How the hell does everyone that have ice not get this?
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:05 AM   #25
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major major

without looking at the source code of the ECU to really isolate the problem, maybe, maybe the software could cause errors if it does not receive signals from the OEM headunit ( since volume is affected by speed)
there might be a correlation in which the ECU would get confused by not receiving these signals, but unlikely.

yes class D amplifiers cause EM interference, but it is not enough, not nearly enough to mess with the system bus, all of the information systems use a variation of the RS-232 serial protocol, this protocol is not very interference prone, and lets say for a moment, that the computers are very prone to interference, all the cars systems would be affected, not just one.

the electrical system of the car is far from quiet, starting with the alternator, it puts out very 'dirty' power it is pulsed Direct Current, not to be confused with direct current, it is a square form of Alternating Current that is rectified with diodes, and somewhat dampened by the battery, the ignition coils generate tons of interference, the wiper blades, window motors, also generate interference, even the PWM's of cell phone chargers generate noise,
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:39 AM   #26
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I guess thats what happens when you have a tangle of wires and everything tied into the electrical system.
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:46 AM   #27
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major major

without looking at the source code of the ECU to really isolate the problem, maybe, maybe the software could cause errors if it does not receive signals from the OEM headunit ( since volume is affected by speed)
there might be a correlation in which the ECU would get confused by not receiving these signals, but unlikely.

yes class D amplifiers cause EM interference, but it is not enough, not nearly enough to mess with the system bus, all of the information systems use a variation of the RS-232 serial protocol, this protocol is not very interference prone, and lets say for a moment, that the computers are very prone to interference, all the cars systems would be affected, not just one.

the electrical system of the car is far from quiet, starting with the alternator, it puts out very 'dirty' power it is pulsed Direct Current, not to be confused with direct current, it is a square form of Alternating Current that is rectified with diodes, and somewhat dampened by the battery, the ignition coils generate tons of interference, the wiper blades, window motors, also generate interference, even the PWM's of cell phone chargers generate noise,
You can call all the BS you want but I have seen it happen alot on these cars, not to mention the radio is on the K bus so you have an issue right there when you take the radio out.
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Old 05-08-2007, 08:25 AM   #28
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You can call all the BS you want but I have seen it happen alot on these cars, not to mention the radio is on the K bus so you have an issue right there when you take the radio out.
Beat the horse to death

To the op Just try it and see what happens

I have 2 "12s ready to be installed want to know if it will afect anything on my 6mt

On my old 330i once with the system in I did get a tranny fail once don't know if it is related but would like to see what you came with
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Old 05-08-2007, 08:41 AM   #29
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This reminds me how honda told my roomate that the reason his manual transmission broke was because of his air filter
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Old 05-08-2007, 08:46 AM   #30
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check my previous posts'.. Actually, it should be my first or second one. This was a big problem in my old 325ci. I had a 1400w pheonix gold amp pushin 2 12' solo barics. I kept getting my tranny failure light and the car would launch in 3rd gear. The bass would hit a certain note and the light would come on. I bought a larger capacitor 3 fahrats i believe and it never did it again. Get the light resetted and get a cap. PM me if you need anything else.
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Old 05-08-2007, 08:50 AM   #31
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http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=195182

Also, if your driving, and that " ! with a circle around it" comes on. Pull over and turn your car off right away. Then turn the key to the 2nd on position. The position where right before the car starts and everything comes on the dash. Leave it like that for about 30 seconds and the code resets itself. If you dont do that right away then only the dealer can remove the code so you gotta catch it quick.
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:14 AM   #32
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i dont even have a cap on it right now, im waitin on the rest of my equipment to come in. I did the whole pull over and restart to get rid of the signal, it worked but then the service engine light came on. Would a cap solve this problem? I really cant do without my system, its like a part of me now. I turned the amp off from the breaker for now untill i see whats goin on.

If this cap CAN solve the problem, anyone have one for sale?
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:21 PM   #33
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check my previous posts'.. Actually, it should be my first or second one. This was a big problem in my old 325ci. I had a 1400w pheonix gold amp pushin 2 12' solo barics. I kept getting my tranny failure light and the car would launch in 3rd gear. The bass would hit a certain note and the light would come on. I bought a larger capacitor 3 fahrats i believe and it never did it again. Get the light resetted and get a cap. PM me if you need anything else.
12' subs ive never seen a 12 foot sub, lol.

Im a car audio installer and i think what is being over looked here is that there can be an install problem. Ive seen equipment do all kinds of things because the install wasnt done properly. Mind you im no fan of the dealer they are over priced but you cant rule out the possibility that your system could have caused the problem.

Did you do the install your self? If no was it a reputable shop? If it was a shop and the system they installed caused this then they are liable.

I would say turn off the system maybe even uninstall everything, then let the dealer fix it. Whats more important a workign car or a nice stereo?

I have also seen the oposite many times the dealer blames the aftermarket and after the aftermarket stuff was removed the dealer finds the real problem.
I think the dealer and not just bmw but all dealers us aftermarket as a cop out. They take one look they see aftermarket and they are like thats the problem, not even do any diagnostic and then tell you that you owe $110 and all they did was look at the car.

Good luck let us know what happens.
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:38 PM   #34
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it was installed by a reputable shop and im thinkin of takin it out and letting them check it again. I turned the amp off and i really only feel a difference in the transmission is when the light comes on, so i cant really get a good judgement of what the problem is.

I dont understand how 4523452 people with 3'ers and M3's on this board have more extensive stereo systems and DO NOT have any problems with a transmission. Maybe the cap really has a big part to do with it?
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:44 PM   #35
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It's because you turned your amp up to 11...

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Old 05-08-2007, 02:57 PM   #36
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Well, when I first read this, I thought BS, but there is something to their claims.

Have you ever seen what happens to a Chrysler car with a dead battery (and I mean dead-dead)? When my mother's battery in her Jeep dies, the gauges get all up on crack and starting shooting all over the place and the engine won't idle until it has built up enough of a reserve in the battery (after being jump started.) I think its certainly possible that a large amplifier could either drain the battery at idle (or if left on), and could potentially cause problems. I have no idea what happens to these cars if you try to operate the ECU on low voltage, so it may not even apply.

That said, I totally side with you (that its been working fine all along) and that the dealer is brushing you off without looking into it, but what they're saying is not totally far-fetched.
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:14 PM   #37
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HEHEHE i was going to say "I have a 1500 watt system in my car and no cap."
but then i remembered i drive a stick.

This is what i tell my customers a cap is a bandaid for the real problem.

What is the real problem? The real problem is when you have lights dimming when the bass hits, it can also but not usually cause an amp to shut down because of insufficient power. This relates to subs mostly, 4ch amps dont take enough power to make the alternator sweat. Subs usually run on mono block amps. The reason this happens probably better explained by highvoltage but basically when subs are hitting that is when the amp pulls the most amps = power/voltage. So our cars while running put out a voltage of about 13.5v and so many amps. As the amp draws more amps the voltage drops. This causes the lights to dim and depending on the amount of voltage drop any number of other problems can occur.

The reason i say a cap is a bandaid is because a cap atempts to provide power during peak power needs and siphons off excess during low power needs. Think of when the sub hits as a peak and when its not a low the cap trys to smooth out these highs and lows into a smooth line. But if the sub is always playing the cap is hurting the system and not helping. I.e a band aid

The real problem is the alternator doesnt produce enough power for your needs. Possibly the problem although if it where effecting one system in the car i would really expect it to be effect all the systems. The audio shop can decide this for you, do you know how many watts your system is? not max output rms. Max is usually advertised not rms its a marketting gemic. Rms is what the system can play at continuosly.
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:17 PM   #38
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Well, when I first read this, I thought BS, but there is something to their claims.

Have you ever seen what happens to a Chrysler car with a dead battery (and I mean dead-dead)? When my mother's battery in her Jeep dies, the gauges get all up on crack and starting shooting all over the place and the engine won't idle until it has built up enough of a reserve in the battery (after being jump started.) I think its certainly possible that a large amplifier could either drain the battery at idle (or if left on), and could potentially cause problems. I have no idea what happens to these cars if you try to operate the ECU on low voltage, so it may not even apply.

That said, I totally side with you (that its been working fine all along) and that the dealer is brushing you off without looking into it, but what they're saying is not totally far-fetched.
if the alternator isnt producing enough power to supply his system even if the system has been in for a while a good battery would mask a problem and not show up until later when the battery hasnt been charged fully due to the lack of power from the alternator
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:21 PM   #39
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well right now i have a JL 1000/1 in there and have a 450/4 waiting to go in. I dont know what my max watts are, maybe 1450?

and when i first had the sub installed i had it half way up on the amp, the lights dimmed ALOT when it hit and the breaker would trip constantly. I had my installer turn the amp down to bout 1/4 until we got the cap in. It still dims a little now.
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:28 PM   #40
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How is it far fetched?? These are very sensitive bus's signal receiving alot of information per sec. They are tested against out side sources for interference. Internal interference from the car is another issue If one of these signals gets interrupted for a nano sec the computer trips a code, It relatively simple!!Tthere are evan warnings on the upper left side of the windshield about it(I know you all removed them). then you cry Moss magnuson BS. You can try that all you want, you will lose in this case!! The dealer gave you a chance to make it right be grateful they didn't turn it over to BMW, Get it fixed and be happy!!
You are basically saying that the grounding, ground isolation and general isolation of the transmission control unit is insufficient to handle a different stereo?

Grounding and isolation of the transmission control unit which is that poor sounds like a design defect.

The only way to settle would be to swap the original stereo back in and see if that fixes it. The $60 difference in deductible is probably not worth that exercise.
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